What is it like returning to the UK ?

[Will]

I recall not long ago there was a discussion in similar vein on another forum. Somebody posted that he had come to France to recreate life in England some 40 years ago. He and his British neighbours deliberately refused to learn French, so that even if they saw French papers or heard radio or TV news, they would not learn of things like immigration and drugs in France.

I thought it was a joke post. But the guy got a lot of support - and it turned out to be a genuine English haven somewhere in central Brittany. Good luck to them, if it's what they want. After all, life is what you make it, wherever you are.

[RumziGal]

[quote user="Coco"]

I have to say, my OH recently worked in Nimes for a couple of weeks and he said that it wasn't a France he recognised until he was about 2 hours into the TGV journey north when at last the landscape turned to green trees and fields with animals in them. [/quote]

Coco, Nimes and Montpellier are really the only France I know!    I live somewhere between the two, in sight of what is allegedly the busiest stretch of motorway in the country.   So I do miss cows and sheep!    And it is very dry.  To be honest (and I know that many of you won't approve!) I think if I had more money it would be okay.    There just isn't that "quality of life" thing going on that apparently happens in other areas of France, so a limited income is just that - limiting, and you can't make the most of what's on offer, because even the famed eating out costs money.   Neighbours pretty much keep themselves to themselves, they're there if you need them, but tend not to in for impromptu drop-in visits.  

I have absolutely nothing against France, but where I live isn't so different from the south of England on a day-to-day basis, except the sky is bluer.   I've really been wondering what on earth I've been doing for the last 6 years!   I have a horrible feeling that the last 4 of them were a waste of precious time, but I can't get them back, so I won't think about that, my middle name being Pollyanna and all.  [:)]    

But the man, the boy, and the dog (and his fleas!) are there, so I'll be back.   Thinks, must book my next fright with Ryan-scare.......

Sorry to go on, but it's kind of difficult, you know?    Life decisions and all that....... [:$]   

[LanguedocGal]

[quote user="RumziGal"]

I'm with TU et al, for a number of reasons.

  If one lives like many Brits live in France, in blissful ignorance of local matters, one doesn't feel nearly so bad.  

[/quote]

Slightly off your thread WILL but I would like to follow up on RumziGal’s post.

 If one lives like many Brits live in France, in blissful ignorance of local matters, one doesn't feel nearly so bad. 

 Think you’ve hit the nail on the head. Sadly, I think that lack of fluency in French probably helps to maintain this blissful ignorance in many.

 I live very much in your neck of the woods in France and can’t help but be amused when I read the French Eldorado crowd.  My main issue with them though is the peddling of the France is ‘cheap’ (for whom, affluent retired or semi retired foreigners?), less crime ridden etc etc lines. Hardly surprising in departments with few inhabitants but France??? (Ok, not suggesting they all have neighbours 10 km apart). 

Re Property

It would be a miracle if the UK wasn’t congested or overall property prices more expensive bearing in mind that it has the same population as France but with only half the land area.  Choosing to live in areas in France that are recognised as losing their population or attracting mainly retired foreigners no doubt provides an even greater sense of space and tranquillity for many. Enjoy it.

But you are right Rumzigal.  For example; one can buy a house in parts of  Leeds for £120-140K (a friend almost did), the UK’s 3 or 4^th town but what will you get for that now in Montpellier? Not a great deal unless it’s tiny, in the back of beyond and/or a wreck and Montpellier is only about 8^th in terms of size in France. Not forgetting that the region is also poor. (For those in doubt, check the www.fnaim.fr site for houses in Montpellier). Prices of houses in most of its suburbs are even worse. The local taxes are horrible too. 

But no doubt for that amount in some of the deserted depts of France, you could probably pick up a beauty with land and pay next to nothing in local taxes. It’s all relative. 

Montpellier is, I believe, France’s fastest growing city and of course that brings it’s own problems as congestion goes (even too much for me) but it’s a town (and its dept)  with a future as it attracts the young in great numbers.  One can’t say the same for certain depts in France.

For residents of many French cities, the notion that that France is a low taxation, cheap, low crime country, must be surreal.  In many respects, they are just like urban UK towns with the dynamism, costs and social problems that come with them. 

 I love the outdoor life I have all year round due to the weather (only thing here not available anywhere in the UK) but I cannot forget that part of my comfort and ability to survive here is due to the opportunities the UK offered me.  I feel sorry for those moving to France thinking that these empty departments with cheap large properties is all France is about because the shock must be horrendous if they don’t come with adequate financial means (or are retired or semi retired) and so can afford to live in blissful ignorance because, as we all know, most people need ‘real’ jobs, good services including entertainment. 

I know for a fact that this image of France as 'cheap' is terribly unhelpful to Brits who move here in their 20s, 30s or even 40s, unless of course they are financially secure in which case, it doesn’t matter where they move to.  Let's not forget that if someone has to live on French salaries then the price of houses - and wine - is not 'cheap'. 

There are loads of great reasons to live in France (the sunny south[:D]) but let’s not forget how the majority of the French try  to cope just like people in the UK. I talk to all my young neighbours and their friends as well as those I meet at the MJC and trust me, if they had the courage, many would be in other countries. Those that do have work (not a great number) moan that their wages don’t allow them to rent flats and so they continue to live with their parents even in their mid to late 20s. Getting on the property ladder for them is impossible.  

Sound familiar?

Coco, like you, I have found my 'bonheur' and I think we are lucky. The issue for me is the constant UK bashing by many Brits who seem to need to justify their move to France by finding fault elsewhere.  When I go back to London, the madding crowd on the tube annoys me no end (has done for as long as I can remember) but then so does the traffic in Montpellier, Toulouse or Paris. When I have to pay my exhorbitant taxe fonciere or put up with endless strikes here, I'm no happier than when I had do the same in the UK. So, when well to do or 'comfortable' foreigners go on about how 'cheap' life is in FRANCE and I look around me and talk to the locals, it's a little irritating.

There is nothing wrong with criticising the UK (mindless patriotism isn't my thing) and frankly, I'm all for slagging off any incompetent system  and as I live here now, the French system is naturally my target and I'm merciless. However, I disagree strongly with those who constantly depict France as some sort of cheap paradise. Let's face it, for rich Russians and the likes, the UK must appear terribly cheap too but does that make it so? Blissful ignorance?

Rumzigal, I bet you’ll miss the blue skies though [;-)].  Two weeks in Paris and I was screaming to get back south as I couldn’t deal with those endless grey skies. Supposed to go to Quimper early Feb and hoping MeteoFrance will be kind to this weather wimp[:$]

Hope you can keep the posts (positive or negative) coming in. By the way, the weather (my sad obsession) has been lovely today in our corner of Heraultland. You have to come back for Freche's endless spring and summer parties...[:)]

 

[RumziGal]

[quote user="LanguedocGal"]You have to come back for Freche's endless spring and summer parties...[:)]

 

[/quote]

Ah, bless him!   A politician who says what he thinks, isn't it refreshing!   What's he up to now, the dear old dufflepud?   When I left, his harki court case was starting.    He was having a bit of a moan about how France is the only Western country where free speech isn't allowed, and where political correctness was taking over.    Yes, Georges, whatever you say, Georges.......... [:)] 

[Teamedup]

What an excellent post LG. There seems so few of us who live in that other France which is comparible and add to that, are actually interested in France warts and all as I have have always said, it is just a country with plenty enough of it's own problems.

And the no crime, drugs and better education posts and I just give up, all reeks of fantasy land and not the France I live in. Strangely my Dad leaves his doors unlocked in England, I wouldn't dream of it here or there.

 

[LanguedocGal]

[quote user="Teamedup"]

And the no crime, drugs and better education posts and I just give up, all reeks of fantasy land and not the France I live in.

[/quote]

TU, I think we have as much right to get the other truth out there, as these people have had years peddling their views of life in ‘’idyllic’’ France.  I accept totally that many have contributed to the revitalisation of these rural areas and I always remind the French I know of that when they start whinging about how the Brits have taken over their villages bla bla..

I’m totally with you on your views on schooling in France. It’s hit and miss too but I get the impression that few of the Eldorado crowd have heard of ZEPs. [:(]  

Rumzigal,  Re Freche

I believe the old dear was fined for his Harki comments. No problem though as we will all pay for the fine out of our local taxes.  I think that may be our duty as citizens.  A few years back, heard him give an hour speech and have to say he is (was?) a magnificent orator. I was convinced I’d be asleep within 10 minutes but no!  

However, I now have slight doubts about his mental faculties all being there. Still, he is highly entertaining and we can’t say that about many politicians. 

You’ve got to love him![:D]

 

[Pun]

Hi  Ruonglue,

I agree 100% , I was watching the u.k. news a few weeks ago and the topic was ref how much money was made by hospitals charging for parking, this woman was near in tears saying that her husband was long term ill and she had to decide how long she could spend with him by how much she could afford parking fee's.the hospital boasted over one million pounds made from its parking scheme.

In france we dont have parking charges in most towns and villages let alone hospitals my feelings are if you go into hospital its not the best time of your life  and if it's a long term thing it's enough worry for everyone without the added worry of can I afford to even visit.

ref cost of living! well we own 2 houses here both in good order and we couldnt run the size of houses we have here in france for anything near what it would cost us in the u.k. "rates, insurance, heating, cost of motoring, and the eating out speakes for its self just have a look at the cafes/restaurants etc any working day and see how many people use them and the age group, and if the food wasnt good they wouldnt last 5 mins.

Yes france has problems but Ive always felt living in the dept I live in is 25 years behind times in some ways and I hope it stays this way,

I still to this day see the old iron wheeled barrow full of plants all year round and in the middle of the fork in the road,

not only looking good but never damaged or moved, We first saw this barrow 4 years ago when we viewed our first house and I couldnt help but think inspite of living in a so called sort after area in the u.k. that barrow wouldnt be there very long until it was taken for a ride, damaged or put in the middle of the road.

Its those little things in life you want as you get older that mean so much, feeling safe at night, not having any worry if you decide to go for an evening walk around the town or village, seeing flowers growing in the public area's ie round abouts, shopping mals, hanging baskets all summer, old people , no graffiti Ive not seen any for ages.

All this may sound like im looking through rose coloured specs but in this area alone 2500, english people moved to this area  in the last 12 month and Im sure they all didnt decide to pack up and move away from the u.k. because they were having a wonderful time there and both myself and my wife didnt have to come here, we looked at the time 5 years ahead and thought what would the u.k. be like then??

One small bit of advice I would give to anyone that was thinking of doing what a lot of us have done by coming here and its this, you get what you put in, the more you try to live a better life in a new country and remember why and what you liked in the beginning and dont bring the old ways you tried to get away from with you ,.

 

[cooperlola]

I love living here (and yes, not least because we could afford to retire, mortgage free, 15 years earlier than would have been possible in the UK) but I loved the UK too and still enjoy my trips back there - I have finally after 3 years though, stopped referring to it as "home".  I'm never sure that moving anywhere to get away is a good idea, IMHO both countries have their flaws and both their good points.  I enjoy my life much more here but that probably has a lot to do with the fact that I don't have to go to work any more; what I do, I do because I choose to.

[Mistral]

[quote user="Pun"]

In france we dont have parking charges in most towns and villages let alone hospitals

 [/quote]

Try parking for free in Aix en Provence or Marseilles. I won't bore you with how much it costs to park at la Timone (one of the big Marseilles hospitals) or even the hospital at Martigues which isn't a big town.

 [quote]Its those little things in life you want as you get older that mean so much, feeling safe at night, not having any worry if you decide to go for an evening walk around the town or village, seeing flowers growing in the public area's ie round abouts, shopping mals, hanging baskets all summer, old people , no graffiti Ive not seen any for ages.[/quote]

Sounds like Exmouth. Wonderful hanging baskets. My in-laws can't believe them

[YCCMB]

I wonder how many people who extol the virtues of living in picture-postcard France will cope when they grow too old and infirm to drive, or to look after themselves?? Particularly the ones who can't speak a word of French, but even those who just about get by in the language??

I love France. I don't have to live there full time, but I could if I wanted to. After lots of consideration, I'm still not convinced that I do want to. I've lived there in the past, and I've lived in several other countries, but I don't think anywhere is perfect. I even lived in Singapore for a bit: no crime, no vandalism, no atmosphere..............

Here in the UK I can afford to be self-employed. I can also carry out more than one profession perfectly legally without paying extortionate social charges and without having to worry about whether I'll make enough money to live on. If I want to do something different I can do it, and be accepted on the basis of my qualifications and merits. I can do work on my house (or get someone to do it for me) without worrying which laws I'm likely to contravene, or whether I can afford to pay for it, or whether I'll make my money back if I decide to sell.I may have to pay to park my car, but I don't have to pay to take it on the motorway to the other end of the country.  I can see my GP within 24 hours anytime, and last week I got a specialist's appointment the same day I phoned the hospital. And just for good measure, I can speak French every day. When I do finally shuffle off this mortal coil, I can leave whatever I own to whoever I choose. I don't have rose-tinted specs when it comes to living in France, but I'm certainly not wearing the same glasses as a lot of people on here when it comes to seeing the UK...................

 

[Lizzie15]

Good balanced views ! Hurray. I'm with Will, TU, GG,Lg, Betty etc. I love  UK and France, both countries have their share of problems  but WHY do people have to bash UK to justify their French lives? We all make our own choices but don't need to belittle what we chose to leave behind ? If you can't speak the language absolutely fluently how do you know what is going in in your adopted country? Burying one's head in the sand could become an Olympic sport at this rate![6]

[powerdesal]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"]

 I can do work on my house (or get someone to do it for me) without worrying which laws I'm likely to contravene, or whether I can afford to pay for it, or whether I'll make my money back if I decide to sell.I may have to pay to park my car, but I don't have to pay to take it on the motorway to the other end of the country.  I can see my GP within 24 hours anytime, and last week I got a specialist's appointment the same day I phoned the hospital. And just for good measure, I can speak French every day. When I do finally shuffle off this mortal coil, I can leave whatever I own to whoever I choose. I don't have rose-tinted specs when it comes to living in France, but I'm certainly not wearing the same glasses as a lot of people on here when it comes to seeing the UK...................

 

[/quote]

Betty,

I,m not into argueing with you but.......

1.  Dont try doing electrics or gas, thats now illegal unless you are fully certificated.( gas has been for a long time)

2.  Not yet you dont but dont hold your breath, and it wont be just motorways either.

3.  From what read of the UK you must be very lucky, and as for a dentist !!!!!!!

[YCCMB]

1. TOH is fully certificated for electrics, and installed our gas CH system, getting a CORGI registered fitter to check and commission it. And, to be fair, that was selective highlighting as I did go on to say "or get someone to do it for me" ( I refrained from adding the obvious "in my lifetime", as, although it hasn't been my experience in France, it seems a common theme here and elsewhere that people wait weeks/months/years to get tradesmen to come and do work)

2. You obviously know something I don't, although as I don't drive into Central London I doubt if I'll ever have to worry about congestion charging (BTW, something they had in Singapore over 10 years ago)

3. It's almost normal these days: AFAIK the target has been (since 2004, in fact) that access to primary care operates on the "24/48" rule, whereby patients should be able to see a GP within 48 hours and a Practice Nurse within 24 hours. OK, the specialist thing was because I went privately, but I have insurance and it's reimbursed, so hardly a difference from France, I feel. I have no basis for comparison between UK and French dentists, but quite honestly if I was moving to France I don't think dental care would ever be a deal breaker[:)]

[powerdesal]

Yes, it was selective highlighting but I did not delete the bracketed comment. The fact that your OH is fully certificated for electrics is not, I would suggest, something that is likely to be a common fact in respect of most posters.

No I dont know any more than the various articles in the UK press regarding the discussion about road pricing and the possibilties thereof.

Not being a UK resident I can only go by what I read and hear regarding access to a GP. It seems to me to be very area dependent and I understand (but have no first hand knowledge of) that some GPs will give an appointment some time later than 24 or 48 hrs. I suppose it depends on the surgery loading / list size. Dental doesn't bother me but it is certainly a problem in respect of registration for anyone returning to UK from overseas, as my daughter found on military posting back from Germany.

[YCCMB]

OK, we're getting into semantics, I think,and whether or not MOH can wire a plug (or rewire a house) is absolutely irrelevant to the underlying message, which is that there are a hell of a lot of things in (parts of) the UK which are as good, if not better than in (parts of)France or elsewhere. I think that the point you have highlighted, however unintentionally, is that much of what's good or bad about anywhere is very much "area dependent" and many of those posting about the joys and merits of living in France are drawing comparisons between living in a rural idyll in France and an urban existence in the UK, which are somewhat spurious as far as I'm concerned.

[hastobe]

I agree - most of the reasons given by those that hate France are

linked to area - as are the reasons of those who say they hate the UK. 

Personally, we have never wanted to move to France to work - only to

retire.   The only areas where we could work would be in big cities -

where the poverty in the suburbs is as bad as in the UK.  Further the

salaries are dire when compared to those in the UK (for the same job).

The difference for us is that to escape to the country in the UK (away

from the crime, vandalism and general 'yob' culture) you need

significantly more money than in France.

We are also of the opinion that your attitude of mind will

significantly influence how you well you settle  - if you're not the

sort of person who can find things to do, you will be bored silly. 

Rural France is definitely not exciting - we regularly get calls from

our (French) neighbour asking when we will next be over as she is bored

senseless.  We have never been big socialites - and don't need a pub /

club / cinema etc to entertain us.  We have always had lots of hobbies

and already choose to do the type of things people seem to aspire when

moving to France - gardening, cooking, keeping animals etc etc ('the

good life').  France will allow us to escape the traumas we currently

have with the ASBO idiots around us and allow us to release capital in

order to improve our retirement, give us more disposable income and a

greater opportunity to travel the world.

Your view on France /

UK will always be coloured by where you are coming from and where you

are going to. Those living in a big French city or in an affluent /

rural part of the UK will always see the UK as being pretty good. 

Similarly those who moved from inner city areas of the UK to pretty

rural parts of France will (on the whole) always think of France as

better.  Likewise the retired expats will never have the frustrations

of those trying to earn a living in France.  (Most of our village seem

to live on a shoe string - we also seem to keep half the village kids

dressed in hand me downs as

most of the mums don't seem to have two pennies to rub together.) 

Everyone makes their choices for different and personal reasons.

Kathie

As an aside the earliest GP appointment I could get

at my surgery on Monday was for the following Friday.  My husband (an

NHS consultant) is currently having major nightmares trying to meet

national deadlines for waiting lists for cancer patients because of the

present funding crisis in the NHS and he now has to have all decisions

approved by a business manager.  If the funding isn't there then the

patient has to wait - simple as that.  Even sterile wipes and

incontinence pads are being rationed....

[Blanche Neige]

"And the no crime, drugs and better education posts and I just give up, all reeks of fantasy land and not the France I live in."

 

T U

La la land .............................................as a friend of mine would call it!

I'm with Rumzigal, Will, TU and Languedoc Girl, Lizzie 15, Betty and a few others; good points made by all.

As Will suggested earlier on,  I am happy (indeed very lucky) to enjoy the best of both worlds and happy to return from one to the other.[:)]

Edit / add

PUN said

"I still to this day see the old iron wheeled barrow full of plants all year round and in the middle of the fork in the road,

not only looking good but never damaged or moved, We first saw this barrow 4 years ago when we viewed our first house and I couldnt help but think inspite of living in a so called sort after area in the u.k. that barrow wouldnt be there very long until it was taken for a ride, damaged or put in the middle of the road."

Well last year in our delightful village in the Charente-Maritime (17 ) someone nicked all the geranium plants that had been planted outside the Romanesque church, the maire was not best pleased!

Just read the local newspaper cover to cover and you'll soon discover some of the gruesome things that happen in La Belle France. Good and Bad everywhere in the world.

[LanguedocGal]

Hastobe,

I never said I hated France and nor did anyone here from what I have read, but I think I understand what you mean. On the contrary, I care about this country. If I hated France, I would not have moved here and investing my energies here. 

You mentioned the NHS but If you intend to retire to France shouldn’t the state of the French Health Service be a major concern too?

It’s in a terrible financial state and if you read the relevant reports, it’s not at all clear what it will be like in 10 years time. Hopefully, they will resolve the funding issues before the you know what hits the almighty fan but surely you’ve noticed that French politicians are not the most courageous as they tend to burst into tears as soon as a few people march down the streets carrying banners.  They like being popular too much, I think Mr Freche is probably the only exception [:D]  

The Eldorado crowd carry on about what’s bad in the UK instead of concerning themselves with what is really happening here because they are surrounded by pretty landscape. For example, do you know how difficult it is to convince young doctors to move out to rural areas?  If people are going to retire to rural France, shouldn’t these issues be as important as pretty houses? Betty’s point about who will look after them in these isolated areas is extremely valid.

 Don’t want to be alarmist but read this…

 http://www.lefigaro.fr/sciences/20061222.WWW000000610_comment_les_zones_rurales_courtisent_les_jeunes_medecins.html

 I won’t even discuss unemployment and who will pay for the social security in a few years without a more dynamic economy etc etc. 

 I’m as concerned as the next person about issues in the UK as I too have family there but it’s really not all wine and cheese and pretty landscape in France either 

I’m not having a go at any individual but simply wanted to pointed out that slinging mud at the UK incessantly and watching the UK news to find out what is wrong over there, for example, seemed a little ridiculous in view of the economic and social climate of France..

Betty, don’t even get me started on inheritance laws and self-employment.  [:@]

 

PS: I actually expected no support for my original post, so pleased to see that I'm not alone.[;-)]

 

[hastobe]

Languedoc Gal

TBH I can't honestly see that there can be much to choose between the two health care systems  - having a 'behind the scenes view' at the UK healthcare system is scary but I know that the French system is just as precarious.  Fortunately I have private health care (which although I disagree with in principal - has turned out to be a God send).  I think this is one of the reasons why we don't want to move permanently to France but will travel / country hop for a while. (We are going to keep a foothold in the UK as it is unlikely our kids will join us in France (they hate France - think it is the most boring place ever LOL!)).  Also (following blanche neige's comments) if something happens to one of us I can't honestly see the other staying in France on their own.

Kathie

[Patf]

I think Deimos' original question was aimed at people who have permanently moved back to UK, so the only people who are any where near that are TU and Rumzigal both of whom will return or have returned to France. So for the rest of us, how does it seem on a visit? I've just returned from a 2 week visit, the first in 18 months. I had a great time, mostly staying with family though we had a couple of days in London. I hired a car for a few days, £15 a day, and had several problem free  journeys on the M25, followed by M1 to Beds. and A27 to Southend. Just lucky I suppose. Theonly fly in the ointment was I think I was flashed by a speed camera. It was good to be back but can't be sure I would feel like that if it was permanent.We still have our house there and do intend to return. A couple of things I noticed have changed since  last visit. One, british people rarely dress up "smart" and usually look scruffy. Poor self image? Not much different from rural France. Then people seem to be spending more on the huge variety of foods in the more upmarket supermarkets. A visit to Southend Waitrose on Dec 22nd  - you could hardly move around the store and the queues were incredible. People work harder and seem to have more spending ability, partly form borrowing more. Anyway, for the moment am glad I'm back in France for some peace and quiet. Pat.ps Hastobe - Here in the Gers there is shortage of GPs. The medicin I used to go to is moving to hospital work and as yet no replacement  has appeared. What will all his patients do?

[YCCMB]

Hear hear........... I do find it quite amusing when I keep reading that France is "x years behind the UK" for all the bad things like street crime, vandalism, etc., etc. and yet no-one mentions that the French economy is in pretty dodgy condition and that many of the problems baing faced in the UK will be as bad if not worse in France within 5-10 years unless something fairly dramatic happens. Labouring the healthcare point, it'll be interesting to see what people from the UK are saying in 10 years time about the French system. Doubly interesting when you take into account that for all the 50-somethings, that'll probably be the time when they actually start to have greater need of the French system.

I'll say it again: I love France. I also love the UK, warts and all. I just don't believe that France has a flawless complexion either, in spite of being the home of L'Oreal.[;-)]

[Dick Smith]

I don't want to appear confrontational or condescending, but there seems to be huge good sense in the last few posts here. And it seems to me that those people who are signing off either country into oblivion aren't necessarily speaking from a position of experience, at least not direct experience.

I, too, enjoy my time spent in each country, not always for the same reasons, of course. I doubt if I could have had my smoked haddock and parsley sauce quite so easily in France, though, and I can't get veal chops in England.

[Deby]

Hello everyone - haven't posted for a while, though I do lurk quite a bit - had a few password problems so couldn't really post.  Tresco - thank you for nudging me!

Well life in the UK is fundamentaly different. Believe it or not :-).

We actually went to France for Christmas, not to Bordeaux but completely East - Grenoble bound.  The two sides of France are completley different. One is more rural and the other a small city which is thriving with life and more akin to most of the UK/city-dweller way of life.  I think some of the comparisons made so far are not really comparing like for like.  Grenoble is very expensive to live in and cosmopolitan, sleepy rural villages who have a couple of annual fetes during the year are worlds apart. France Profond is different.  Even the French will state this -  their city-dwellers know this only too well. If we were all talking about oranges then it would be different.

I am happy with life in the UK but my reasons and stage of life are not the same as others.  Some people value low-priced wine and eating a good four course dinner as a highter priority than others, some prefer the less traffic-filled roads.  I think we can all agree on the weather though..

I really love France and there are so many wonderful things about her that I miss, I miss the outdoor life and everyone tootling off for August and the buzz of the Rentree, but I dislike the inefficiencies of customer service and the eternal administration. In the UK I dislike the fact that during summer there is no winding down or winding up, but I do like a nice Latte and an abundance of people to help me find things when I need to and the opportunities that the British life gives to everyone.  So I think it all is down towhat individuals  likes/dislkies and suits.  Many couples struggle too because they want different things.

I think when I am closer to retirement age I would like my little potager, apero runs and trip to the market when I have just time to meander at my own pace, certainly not in France Profond.

I left Grenoble a few days ago with pleasant, fond and nostalgic memories, but I know I could not return to live permantely at this time. 

I read over the weekend in The TImes how Britons generally thought Britain was in a dire state, but I honestly believe they do not realise the good things which they have but are generally quite happy with their lot. On the contrary French people are very apathetic, they are tired, fed-up of paying ridiculous taxes and having a Government with no balls.  Their Youth want change, but dont want to give up their tradtions.  Out of the two a comparison can be clearly made, the French are definitely  a nation gloomier than us Brits.

Off me soap box how and I hope you havent all fallen asleep.

Deby

[Mpprh]

I'm in a funny position.

I left UK in 1990, lived in Belgium, USA (Briefly), Sweden, and have been in France for 7 years.

I am self employed here : my French wife has a full time job. I work in UK a few times each year : Yes, I like the pubs, they all tend to understand English (and even Polish in the hotels these days !),  shops are open when I need to shop, it is easy to have the foods I remember from my youth, and I can sort out any problems in English.

But : people say that taxes are very high ( I still think they are less than France), booze is expensive, don't talk about cigs, fuel is expensive, the  motorways are overcrowded, good restaurants & hotels are expensive, everyone talks about house prices and the weather is crap !

I'm open minded. If I had to move back, I would want to be in a rural area near a city (same as for the last 30 years). I could never go back to the London sprawl. I'd have to live in a smaller house, take expensive holidays to see the sun, and change my life.

The only real problem for me is the if I could live with "little islander" mentality : foreigners are greasy - we are the best in the world - the BBC is independent- the only ones with honest policeman and without corruption are the Brits, etc.

Am I a stateless person ?

Peter

[Miki]

Just back from yet another GREAT great time in the UK.......

All I can say is the usual, one must speak on a a like for lilke basis, if one moves off a big housing estate and in France moves in to a large house in the country (from the proverbial pile of bricks to a simple wall papering job !!), utters no French, knows little about the country itself, usually sod all about its politics or even silly things like the laws of the land, then naturally, it must be paradise. Take the country as more than just a place to drink cheap wine (SB got it bang to rights) to boast of cheapo lunches (yuk in too many instances) and who tell you just how far a "bonjour" and a "Ca va" to neighbours go for you to ne integrated  (but then the damned locals answer back with words not found in the I Spy phrase book [:)] )

Obviously I agree with the "usual suspects" who like me have no axe to grind with the French, or France itself, albeit we all know there is an awful lot one could bang on about but I have come to know just too many who have harped on and on about how bad the UK is and just how great it all is in France, only to finally come eventually to the sad demise of having to go back for a variety of reasons and then had some contact us to say just how much they enjoyed being back in the UK and one or two of those were of the "Never going back" brigade.

Like a few of the folks on here, it gets pretty galling to be continuually told just how bad ALL of the UK has become, as if that person has lived all over the UK or even to read posts that state they haven't actually been in the UK for some time but roll out the red tops headlines as if they are gospel. To all those that drivel on about the UK, try moving away...Ah but it's cheaper to come to France isn't it........... and there's the rub.

If our parents ever dreamed about moving abroad (if ever ?) they had to be pretty rich to do so, so their dreams may have been to do so but, the reality was never going to be a player.....now we have a richer generation, where big cars, big houses and the designer labels are de rigour and a place abroad can be litle more than an add on the the aforementioned (yes, I apologise to those this is not aimed at). So as is surely obvious, moving to France is almost as easy these days as was once moving to another county, all one then has to do, is dumb down the place that made it all so easy to be able to do so....................even if one only had the area they lived in before to go by and the rest from the newspapers because for sure, if I believed half of what people have posted here about the UK, then I wouldn't go back but happily, I must go back to places yet to be infitrated by the evils that await those folks and we visited at least 10 different areas this year. Yes, that clearly has to be the reason [:)]