who else is leaving France?

[Gastines]

I think a point worth considering if you've been in France for even 2-3 years, is the dramatic rise in ordinary outgoings of living in UK today. With the latest news of the re-valuation of property,last carried out in 1991, I think a lot of people will be in for a shock. I note the increase is not being brought in untill after the next election!!

I have thought that the extended family home might be the answer. Buy a property that's big enough or easily converted into 2-3 units,not totally self contained otherwise the council will still nail you to the wall. With only one main gas/water/electricity /sewage service and standing chardge with by-meters for shares of the bills.[ I think I might pass on a by-meter for the sewage] I'ts one  idea that seems to work in the rest of Europe. Trusting I won't get shot, I think the much maligned  poll tax was a fairer option to the Council tax of today. For example a 3 bed house in parts of the Midlands might be valued at £200.000 and the same sized property on the South coast would probably be £350.000. Paying substantially more tax but using the same amount of services.

It appears in a lot of areas the only benefit from the extra taxes collected is to reduce the Chancellor's input and with very little improvement to the local infrastructure. I wonder how the pension pot of the M.P.'s and councillors is doing?

5 mins from St.Malo. close to the Rance/sea/beaches/countryside/shops/doc's/dentist/good neighbours and not thinking of moving anywhere.

Regards.

[Russethouse]

Have you ever lived in close proximity to a parent Gastines ?[:)][:)]

Been there, done that............

[Llwyncelyn]

Gastines revaluation of homes has already taken place in Wales and some years ago.  All it will now take is for England to follow Wales and where prescriptions are free!

That said I used to live and still have a house in Chepstow we saw and continue to see people be they Welsh English Polish or whatever coming across from England changing Doctors so they can benefit from free prescriptions!

If we go back we will go back to Chepstow for the house is an investment but it was bought with a thought towards the future and our final resting place.  Chepstow for all its faults has been my 'home' for well over 30 years and it somehow seems logical for us to go back there.

However present house values in the UK seem just absolute madness how do the young people of today those with student loans etc live or get on the housing market?

I agree with previous postings it is not the fault of France that we are thinking of going back it is the fact that I took and somewhat hastily retirement and had not planned for it.  So essentially when someone bought our then home parachuted myself into France without thinking about the day to day needs (at least mine and where I had spent 40 years interfacing with clients) to a very much differing lifestyle and to see the farmer twice a week is just about the highlight of that week.

France is fine where we live is fine for those who like and can handle isolation................I cannot and yet when your family and friends come across they think we are mad to want to move.  However they do not have to live in the country but of course work in a highly charged environment back in the UK.

 

[Teamedup]

No one will say 'I told you so' when we go back. I have had a few 'why's' but even more 'you're coming home'. The why's, least said about them the better.

In the past at least, french people understood 'returning home', lots of french adventurers return to France, although there is enough discontent at the moment, that I have heard the odd thing about people who have left shouldn't come back, as France is in a mess.

IF we, as a couple, didn't laugh a lot everyday and get on most of the time, I don't know what I'd do. Life would just be unbearable and I would have left or worse.

 

 

[Panda]

In danger of going off topic but in line with the sentiment in the article sited by WJT, has anyone else noticed that programmes on the TV such as 'master chef' are starting to be full of what anyone would consider to be highly trained professionals looking for a way out of their hard fought for career.  The last show I watched had 2 lawyers and a scientist with a phd, why do they want to give up years of training to become a chef which they could have achieved in a fraction of the time? 

We seem to live in an age where everyone is unhappy with their lot and wants to change, I must say that when I first started work everyone eyed the top job with envy and worked hard to get promotion, if I think about it now I don't know anyone who has that kind of ambition anymore, the only ambition I come across is to be able to 'drop out'. 

Am I imagining this shift in mind set....

 

[Catalpa]

[quote user="Lassie"]

There  hasnt yet been a posting from anyone who has actually left for all the wise reasons that have been mentioned.

[/quote]

If you went back or moved on, would you continue to spend time on the Living France forum? [:D] (Rumzi excepted as she is doing a straddling thing. If she doesn't mind me saying so. [:P])

[RumziGal]

[quote user="catalpa"][quote user="Lassie"]

There  hasnt yet been a posting from anyone who has actually left for all the wise reasons that have been mentioned.

[/quote]
If you went back or moved on, would you continue to spend time on the Living France forum? [:D] (Rumzi excepted as she is doing a straddling thing. If she doesn't mind me saying so. [:P])
[/quote]

[:D]

It's a fair point, though.  We hear very little from those who go back to live in the UK.   And you can't really blame them, when the merest whiff of discontent with anything French brings out the Angry Francophile Brigade.

I'm in touch with one lady who used to post here and is now back in England, and she's very happy.

I guess people just don't think to come back on and say "I've moved back to England, and I'm loving it".  Probably too busy loving it!  [:)]

 

[Catalpa]

[quote user="Panda Bear"]

I must say that when I first started work

everyone eyed the top job with envy and worked hard to get promotion,

if I think about it now I don't know anyone who has that kind of

ambition anymore, the only ambition I come across is to be able to

'drop out'. 

Am I imagining this shift in mind set....

[/quote]

No, probably not. But over the past 10-12 years I saw a change in

expectations or requirements of employees. With an eye on budgets and

profits, companies downsize or simply do not replace people who leave.

Those remaining are required to accept a bigger and bigger workload.

Email and mobile phones make us available 18 hours a day and promote

the expectation of instant response. You're not a team player ([+o(]) if you get a call at home at 9pm and refuse to do several hours work so that some information or other is available for some twonk at 8am the following morning. I was once asked, in all seriousness after I'd "missed" a late call from a colleague in Denver, why I didn't have a phone in the bedroom. [Www]

Then there's cost cutting - making a daytrip for meetings in Europe the

norm rather than incorporating an expensive overnight stay. At least

once a week it had become normal for me to do a 4am departure from home

to get to an airport, have a full day of meetings, fly back on the last

flight and all being well be home by 10pm. Sometimes it would be past

midnight. I'd be back in the office by 8am. The demands on me weren't

exceptional. Unhealthy but not exceptional. It was the expectation for

someone in that type of role.

I think that's why you watch something like Masterchef and see lawyers, accountants, middle management, all aspiring to what they perceive

as a more fulfilling life. 

[RumziGal]

[quote user="catalpa"]Then there's cost cutting - making a daytrip for meetings in Europe the norm rather than incorporating an expensive overnight stay.  [/quote]

This is something that I've wondered about for years.   All countries send people around the place on planes for meetings and education courses.   What happened to the great dream of teleconferencing and all that?   Telephone conf calls are a good start, but the technology is there for so much more. 

Can't think why people don't use it more.   Just stuck in their ways, I guess.

[Catalpa]

Tele / video conferencing has its place and I used the technology a lot when I was part of a department that was based in England, Germany, Denver and Chicago. It works when you don't need to be reading body language and to be looking people in the eye. For staff meetings where there wasn't too much conflict or any contentious issues under debate, it was great. But once you apply it to a situation where someone has to influence people, persuade them to a course of action or to accept something they may have reservations towards... or be downright hostile towards... videoconferencing does not aid communication. It can embed attitudes. There is no opportunity to pull a situation round to "normal" by going to lunch or even just the coffee machine.

In some situations, especially cross-cultural situations, there is nothing better than being in the same room. [:D]

[Cat]

I was lucky in that my old company used to make good use of video teleconferencing facilities, but then our head office was based in Vancouver, and it would have been a tad tricky nipping over for a quick meeting.  This did however mean that we would often have to stay late in the office in order for the "working day" to overlap the two time zones.

Training though was often in Vancouver, and I still had to go over to Canada or Paris for some things (not that that was a bad thing, they're both lovely cities).

But Catalpa has a point, in order to be seen as a team-player [+o(] we were expected to work as late as required, take on the responsibilities of people who had left but not been replaced,  have decisions taken over our heads by management specialists [+o(][+o(] with little working knowledge of the system but plenty of ideas.

I might be poorer financially now than I was then, but there's no way I'd go back to that kind of life again.

[Panda]

I think if it were me who had gone back to the UK, sadly I would be too busy trying to pay the mortgage and working all hours again, just to keep a roof over my head, back to some stranger dropping and picking up my son and someone else entertaining him all summer, no thanks. 

Whilst it's quiet in the winter here reading the post about 10 hour days and calls from the US into the evening are all too familiar for me and I am very glad I gave all that up.  I was lucky  in that I was able to keep my 'post' I still work for the same slave drivers but now I am a 'free slave' so to speak I call the shots and work from home when I want to which means I take days out when I want to and start and stop work when I choose.  I go back to the UK once or twice a year on the company and get to see all the old office politics, one week is enough to send a shiver down my spine.

It works for us, we will not stay in France long term though (estimate another 3/4 years), but we, like others who've posted would prefer to move on, not back and will chose another country to spend a few years in.

I feel for those for whom financial reasons mean they have to return to the UK, going back after any length of time, particularly if they haven't been working for a few years would be very hard, not to mention getting back on the property ladder, the thought fills me with dread.

For those for whom France doesn't work on a social level, my sister once said 'yes I visted France but it was closed!' She was always the party animal and still goes out every Friday and Sat night, same pubs, same faces, years on, it was never for me we are very different, France would kill her! 

Vive la difference!

[Will]

Well, I'm doing something rather similar to Rumzi.

When we first moved to France it was because Mrs Will had the chance of a salaried job, which she still has, and she had a strong desire to live in France. I had downsized from a managerial job with a group of magazines for a big publishing company and taken on a freelance contract that could, at least in theory, be taken to France. It worked fine that way, with us retaining a house in England (basically our pension fund) and me frequently going back and forth. It became slightly less fine when the 'temporary' contract extended beyond the two years allowed by the French authorities and I had to become a French business rather than a UK freelancer, with all the bureaucracy and expense that incurred. In fact the temporary arrangement lasted about five years.

As we needed the money, I have been doing a Rumzi with a different job, nominally a full-time one based in England and returning to France for long weekends every couple of weeks. That has been interesting, and I endorse what Catalpa says, that communication can be the big disadvantage when working remotely. Actually returning to an environment where I interact with my colleagues has been a pleasure in some ways, though it has been very difficult to combine this with another life in France. Though previously I don't think communication with me in France was necessarily any worse than communication between people in adjoining offices. I was often the channel for information despite being several hundred miles out of London. It was that sort of organisation.

I don't count my life as going back, because I never really left, but I can appreciate the difficulties faced by those stuck in rural France, as well as the pleasures of those who want to be in rural France. The isolation etc hasn't really been a problem in my case, although I have certainly felt it, because I have always had the exit strategy.

I do count myself as being very fortunate, and I really can enjoy both countries. And I do counsel that if you can move elsewhere without severing your ties with your home country - definitely do so. Whether that means you rent out your house back home, or you do as we did and downsize so you can retain the use of the place, that's up to you.

As for me, another chapter is about to begin that looks as if I will be able to enjoy an even better dual life, but that's another story altogether and a lot of details still have to be worked out so I shall say no more for now.

 

[BJSLIV]

We seem to live in an age where everyone is unhappy

Or to put it another way. we live in an age when everyone assumes that they have a right to be happy. Until recently this was not the case, the majority of people expected life to be pretty grim, and that it would probably fairly short and brutish.

Today young people go through the education process avoiding difficult subjects, not being required to do household chores, muttering boring at anything that displeases them. Suddenly they arrive at the other end of the education system and are confronted with a 40 year long tread mill, with little chance to avoid the boring realities of day to day life; student loans, 52 Year Mortgages (Today's financial innovation!), etc etc. No wonder the thought of doing something different has superficial advantages, whether it be carpentry, plumbing or running a gite......

[Gastines]

As an add-on to my posting and in reply to one members points. It would seem that many move to France at the time of retirement, whether taking early retirement or at the 65 year stop point.  This in itself must be a particular shock to the system for many who have followed a fairly hectic and full working life. The obvious difference is that you are now with your partner 24hrs a day. This can be the breaking point,. A few weeks holiday spent together in a relaxed mode is rather different from doing the mundane jobs around the house and garden each day. For several years my wife and I worked together all over the UK  and had a shop to stock and run as well. As we have similar interests all worked out fine and I'm glad to say still does. The first house we bought in Brittany was in a much more rural location, the price being the main draw, and now that we are on house number 4, we realise and appreciate being in a much more lively and interesting area. If the sun shines we have dozens of different places to visit/explore within minutes and in the winter to avoid that grey feeling we then visit family in UK for a few days at a time. Finances must be one of the main reasons that many of us are here and although we CAN afford to return to UK, we would probably end up doing some work to keep our heads above water.

Regarding the house sharing point, I did mean seperate apartments in the same building and I do realise that it can be frought with problems, I'm a great believer in the fact that most problems arise because people avoid discussing and solving them.

Regards. 3months from my pension, if there is any left & 5mins from St.Malo 

[RumziGal]

[quote user="Will"]

and I endorse what Catalpa says, that communication can be the big disadvantage when working remotely. Actually returning to an environment where I interact with my colleagues has been a pleasure in some ways, [/quote]

Yes indeedy.   Our current ethos is to be available on Sametime while working, and that works very well.  But it's true that it's not the same as talking face to face, especially when you're trying to disentangle technical stuff. 

And when I'm working at home in France, I do miss the coffee runs and the canteen and the feeling that there's human life around me.   Two weeks of isolation is enough, and suddenly meetings and water coolers seem like the most exciting and wonderful things imaginable!  [:D]

[Gastines]

Rumzigal. I don't know whether to say I missed that type of LIFE or what. A visit to the water cooler? Obviously this is not meant as personal to you and I trust if there is a lawyer in the building I will not be hearing from him/her.

Reminds me of the most annoying thing I came across when running UK sites. The RIGHT to visit McMCMc at any time to get your polystyrene cartons of ---- , and then leave the said cartons for others to clear up. I believe I may have led a fortuitous life by never having been desk bound or having to commute to the same place, day after day. My brother-in-law must sum it up when he say's to me;" That I have Xyears X days to go before I can retire." God, what a prospect!!   I have offered him an alternative.I think he may be worried that an early finish may affect his pension, I only hope he's here to enjoy it.

Regards.

[RumziGal]

[quote user="Gastines"]

Rumzigal. I don't know whether to say I missed that type of LIFE or what. A visit to the water cooler? Obviously this is not meant as personal to you and I trust if there is a lawyer in the building I will not be hearing from him/her.

[/quote]

The water cooler isn't that interesting, it's true!   But there is one right across from my room, and mostly it sounds as if I'm sharing an office with a urinal.  [blink]

It's the social thing.  I like TALKING!   [:D]

[cooperlola]

[quote user="BJSLIV"]

We seem to live in an age where everyone is unhappy

[/quote]Well I'm not.  Am I odd?

[Bugsy]

I'm not either, so that's two of us then.....................................[:D]

[Catalpa]

Three of us. My life right now suits me so well... I could almost worry about it. [kiss]

[BJSLIV]

We seem to live in an age where everyone is unhappy

Someone earlier had suggested that lots of young people seem to be unhappy ,and trying to find satisafaction outside of their hard earned careers. i was just offering my thoughts as to why that might be.

 

[AnOther]

[quote user="Panda Bear"]It's one reason why I find it hard to understand how couples can have one person working in the UK and commuting[/quote]We will be doing this, for the first couple of years anyway. I have a job which keeps me away for 2 weeks then home for 3 and have been doing it, or similar, for a good many years. I don't think we will have a problem with it when in France but then my regime is far more laid back than those who are commuting weekly, I think we would struggle with that and in fact probably wouldn't have contemplated the move on that basis.

One reason for continuing work is to build up our savings to give us more options for the future plus a couple of years should be enough to know if we made the perfect decision or the worst mistake of our lives and having still got a good job will again greatly expand our options in case it turns out to be the latter! 

[quote user="cooperlola"]I think you need to be pretty self reliant and have plenty of things you enjoy doing and that don't rely on others too much.[/quote]A sound  recipe.

My OH knows it will be tough on her to begin with because she will be on her own for 2 weeks out of 5 and with a poor command of French (but improving fast) and so much to learn but she's totally up for it. Fortunately we've got a fantastic English couple nearby who we get on with like the proverbial house on fire and this will undoubtedly help her enormously.

[quote user="cooperlola"]And if you are unhappy with the choice you've made, don't be afraid to admit it and move on.  It's not a crime to be wrong, only to carry on being unhappy when you have the power to change things[/quote]True and relates back to my point about working on. That extra 2 or 3 years would mean we would have sufficient resources to move elsewhere without necessarily having to sell our currnet property immediately. I think being stuck somewhere you don't want to be and and not being able to move on until you've sold would be the worst scenario of all.

[Tony F Dordogne]

Never been happier, yesterday worked for a couple of hours in morning, then on to local market, 10.5 euro menu in resto we hadn't visited before but which had been recommended by French and English chums, back home via a couple of quick visits to chums for exchanges of information and then about 2 hours each working on terrace setting it up for spring.

And as for the retiring and being together all day thing, we've always worked (arms length) together, have similar interests (though we also also do our own thing), keep each other on our toes intellectually and we miss each other when we're apart.  For us retirement (and we both baled out early) was always going to be a partnership and that's how it's turned out to be - and we both realise just how privileged we are financially but it's taken 40 years for us to get to this position and it was worth every day for what we have now.  But I don't think I'd like to be a younger family, artisans having to make a living here, we have friends in that position and sometimes my heart bleeds for them.

Go back - no, that's a retrograde step to us, don't think we've ever gone back at all in our lives, doesn't fit in our mind sets.  The kids (all in their 30s, eldest 40) and rest of the family know where we are, 2 and half hours from them by plane max from airport to our door, they have their own lives and so do we.

 

[RumziGal]

[quote user="Tony F Dordogne"]

2 and half hours from them by plane max from airport to our door.

 [/quote]

The travelling between Southampton and Montpellier is turning out to be not that easy!

There are lots of flights into the area in the summer (Gatwick-Montpellier, Southampton-Avignon, etc) but in the winter it's just Ryanair, which means Stansted or Luton.

It effectively takes the best part of a day to get from Southampton to Montpellier, and given the traffic on the M25 is just not advisable on a weekday.

In short, weekends home are just not really doable.  So anyone thinking of regular commuting by air, look into the winter timetables - you may have to revise your expectations.