Working in France

[loz]

I recently overheard an American talking about France and he declared that France would be dragged into the present by Sarkozy. He basically said that it was backwards in its employment laws etc. Now I have some sympathy with this American view point but not much. I have seen poverty in America and in France but the one thing I find outstanding in France is the base quality of life. By that I mean the low costs for basics like housing and basic food stuffs. The fact that no matter how low you fall you’re not likely to have to work on a Sunday; you will get a descent lunch break, and barring gross mis-conduct you will probably have a job for life. People forget these things when they can’t find a shop open on a Sunday or it is closed for lunch, and should think of those that work at this level and how their family life and life -work balance are protected at the states expense. This is not backward to want true wealth shared amongst everyone, and to protect those at the bottom from the full impact of market forces. I think Sarkozy will change nothing of importance, as the French people run France. In the UK when the supermarkets opened all hours I felt no improvement in my life, did you? I will always remember though shopping at the Asda in Leeds for years and the cheerful staff there, and how that changed within months of Wall-Mart taking over.

[cooperlola]

Loz, if you ever get the chance, take a look at

http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/898701/Wal-Mart-The-High-Cost-Of-Low-Price/Product.html

Very telling and quite disturbing.

[Frenchie]

Loz I agree with you.

Of course , if I am selfish I would sometimes like to go and stroll the alleys of a French shop on Sundays, but if I think twice, I then realize everybody is entitled to a Snday rest.. It is just a matter of organization..

I run  errands during the week and I enjoy my week end full time!

PS : I am French

[Will]

At the same time, many French people, employees as well as employers, find things like the 35 hour week and the high charges as soon as one exceeds the minimum wage unduly restrictive. Many employees would relish the chance of earning worthwhile extra salary by working at weekends (legally, rather than au noir), and the nature of French employment law actually discourages employers from taking on staff - which does nothing for France's high unemployment figures, and the high cost of providing social security benefits to the less well-off. The restrictive laws and high charges encourage a black economy.

These are some of the things that Sarko (though I am no friend of his) needs to, and has promised to, address - and things seem to be under way already in several respects.

 

[Russethouse]

In the UK when the supermarkets opened all hours I felt no improvement in my life, did you?

But no doubt thousands of people who then had the opportunity to work part time, did.

btw - There is a book about Tesco and their domination of the UK market too.

[cooperlola]

Undoubtedly, Will, you make a good point.  There must be many people who would gladly put in a few more hours so they could buy a few more luxuries.  And the state would be better off if it got the resulting additional taxes to help pay its own massive debts and bills instead of having them do this on the black.  Perhaps on occasions, our idea of a good "quality of life" and that of the people we assume enjoy such a thing, is a little different!

[samdebretagne]

This has just been our experience, but I do think it is a valid considering that we are a young Franco-American couple.  My husband and I moved to France four years ago, and personally, I think our quality of life is lower here compared to how it was in the US.  We live in a rural area and are both forced to work two jobs just to make ends meet, where as in the US, we both had fairly well-paid jobs and were thus fine with working 40hrs per week.   Don't even get me started on how much lower the salaries are here!  If I were to work in the same field as I did in the US, I would be making only 1/3 of my previous salary.

We live in a town of 60,000 and our rent is more expensive than what we paid back home in a city of 3 million, for a similar-sized apartment.  Not to mention the price of water, electricity, gas, etc, which are through the roof.  Furniture, clothing, electronics - also all more expensive.  The only food items I have found cheaper are fruits & veggies, wine & yogurt.  The health care is of course fabulous, but being young, we don't really take advantage of it much.

We moved here because my FIL is retiring soon, and my husband is the only son, so he is expected to take over the family farm.  Except the farm doesn't make much money, so he also has to have a second job, meaning he works 60-70 hours per week, 7 days per week.  Not exactly an improvement in his quality of life, in my book.  We barely break even every month - after four years, I don't really feel like our situation has improved at all, whereas in the US, we were able to put a couple thousand dollars aside in savings every year, and into 401K's and IRAs. 

France must be a great country to retire to, but if you're young and trying start a family, it can be very difficult.

[Frenchie]

[quote user="Will"]

Many employees would relish the chance of earning worthwhile extra salary by working at weekends (legally, rather than au noir),

[/quote]

If I was sure it would be that, I would say I agree 100% , but I fear it wouldn't  be only for those who are WILLING to work on Sundays, but even for those who wish to keep their Sunday off ............... 

[cooperlola]

THIS article in Le Monde reminded me of this discussion.

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

[quote user="Frenchie"]

Loz I agree with you.

Of course , if I am selfish I would sometimes like to go and stroll the alleys of a French shop on Sundays, but if I think twice, I then realize everybody is entitled to a Snday rest.. It is just a matter of organization..

I run  errands during the week and I enjoy my week end full time!

PS : I am French

[/quote]

It is one of the things we have learnt to work around. In Oz, the shops are open most of the time, but in France because of the long lunch breaks, a slight change in outlook is needed. Our nearest big town is 45 mins away, so set off at about 1.30 to arrive when the shops open.

For the weekly grocery shop, our local Intermarche stays open during the lunch break and this is the perfect time to shop as there are very few people there. In and out within 20 minutes.

As you say, just a matter of organsation (which you spelt the American way :))

[Clair]

If people want to work, they should be able to.

The Sunday as a day of rest has never existed anyway. Ask hospital workers or nurses...

Most people want a day off to do what they want to do. It does not have to be Sunday.

There should not be any restrictions on working any day of the week, as long as any worker wants to do so.

The Lidl shop in our relatively small town has been open non-stop 6 days a week for the last couple of years. It is gradually getting busier at lunchtime.

If we're talking about employers taking advantage...

A high street photo shop I used to work in in the UK employed a lot of part-timers.

Their contract was for 24 hours a week, but although they were paid for 24 hours, they never did work 24 hours a week.

When it came to Christmas or the sales period, they would be reminded that they "owed" the company so many hours and had to work as requested, to make up the time they had already been paid for... not that they had any choice in whether they could refuse the money, as it was transferred directly to their account.

They were in "time" debt to the company and did not have any choice about it.

[Ian]

There are something like 190 odd countries in the world (give or take a few), and I guess I'd be happy to live in around 10% of them for any significant period of time.

France would be one (obviously) and so would the USA.  They are both such great countries with a wonderful quality of life and great opportunities to escape their respective low levels of relative poverty.  Those of us with the capability to choose either are extremely fortunate.

Which is better - a question of taste and personal values -  and in a forum dedicated to all things French, populated by francophiles I feel there will only be one winner.  "Living America" (if it exists) and its forum may deliver a contradictory result.