A get-it-off-my-chest rant.

[Gluestick]

Reminds me, Twinks......................

I was working on a project in Silicon Valley in the 80s and had to go to Orange County for a series of biz meetings.

Stayed at a rather tacky and vast motel called the Saddleback Inn.

After dinner the first night I went into the bar for a determined one drink bourbon rocks nightcap: from grand decisions flow temptation!

In the corner of the bar was a small triangular bandstand: suddenly, three young guys in blue bandjackets appeared and started playing.

They played everything from jazz, country rock, rock and roll, blues through to swing! They each played at least three instruments.

I also was staggered no one had signed 'em up!

After a number of bourbon rocks ([8-)]) I finally made bed at 2.30 AM.

A bit tired for the following morning's meeting but hey!

When I think of Orange County, which of course is a sort of suburb of LA, I think of two things: the 15 foot tall concrete statue of "The Dook" outside the airport and those guys.

 

[Pierre ZFP]

Is the Dook statue outside John Wayne airport rather than LAX ?  I don't recall seeing it but there again never been to J.W.

My lasting impressions of Orange County (and LA in general) is that it was once an area of staggering natural beauty....then they covered it over with concrete!

Also, at LAX, how on earth did they manage to send my suitcase to Tokyo instead of Heathrow??

[Gluestick]

John Wayne International Airport. Orange County, Pierre.

All of California was an area of staggering natural beauty: once!

Pics of the 30s show how much landmass has been raped.

Still, we did find some places that were sort of intact: Carmel for example: and a seaside place with an original boardwalk, not too far from San Jose, where I stayed, 'cos it was right in the centre of Silicon Valley.

One Saturday I walked through what was left of a forest of sequoas: peaceful and fantastic. Wandered around and suddenly came upon a brass plaque which informed me that this was the furthest point reached by an army surveyor and his aid in the early 1800s.

There are a few bits left amongst the glitz! And concrete.

 

[Coppi]

Ron

The H&S officials have brought it on themselves because of many of their stupid dictates.

Example

At our local tip in Worcstershire the rail round the hoppers are at chest height. When I queried this I was told that if it wasn't so someone might fall in. To put anything in to hopper you first have to lift it to chest height.

At our local dechetterie at Mortain (50) there is a rail raised off the ground but low enough to back a trailer and off load straight into the hopper.

In the UK the H&S executive is out of control, being staffed by "jobsworth" with no insite of the reall world.

Finally, around 1972, I think, when the H&S at work act was brought into being I worked in an industy where there were real, potential dangers and this act was required. Now it like so much else it has got totally out of control.

Finally, Finally. Read "Littlejohn's Britain" by Richard Littlejohn.

C

[Gluestick]

Unless you are referring to dangerous diary products (I have had some in the past which could have caused a hernia if lifted of the desk injudiciously I'll confess), Coppi, I fear you are in the wrong thread here.[:)]

 

 

[Coppi]

G

Wrong,

I do not look at this forum very often but I was minded to respond to a posting by Ron Avery dated 05.02.08. I really have better things to do in my life than spend time reading about other peoples lives which I usually find pretty boring.

I digress.

The point which I was trying to make is that H&S legislation has, along with many of the laws and regulations imposed by this government and the EU, become a complete nonsense when related to everyday living.

RA, in defence of the H&SE puts up the usual defence of "not me guv" but by the time some of the clowns and "jobsworths" involved in administering many of these regulations the time will come when one will not be able to fart in a public place without the appropriate documentation being in place first.

C

[TWINKLE]

[quote user="Coppi"]

 I really have better things to do in my life than spend time reading about other peoples lives which I usually find pretty boring.

[/quote]

I beg your pardon Coppi!!!

There is not a boring day to be had in my life[:)] 

Take today for instance - I'm sitting here reading your  post about what you get up to at the rubbish tip and I just know that it's going to be another fascinating day for me[:P]

[Gluestick]

Apols and yes having now looked back I had forgotten the original topic!

Shows how we wander.

On H & S E, I would agree.

Mrs G works in the City and there are endless cases of contractors using tower cranes to raise various bits of kit, which are swung over the footpath with no safety nets in place.

A few years back I had to collect some IT kit in the City and some contractors were lifting a skip which dripped cement slurry all over my pin-striped arm (where it was hanging out of the window) and my car; being quick drying cement and a hot day it was dry ASAP and nearly ruined the paintwork roof, boot and bonnet.

Where were HSE then I wonder?

Most of this stuff, in any case, is simply a raft of bureaucratese and few if any offices and factories etc, actually fully conform to HSE, COSHH and etc.

The "trained" First Aider concept is invariably a total joke and merely means the muppet delegated to know where the sticking plasters are kept!

Mrs G had to mount a civil action for a serious injury suffered at work and due to total carelessness of on-site contractors. Both the contractors and the employers lied and covered up. The delegated HSE organ were Westminster City Council: who totally ignored the original complaint. I had to galavanise our MP to kick the minister up the jacksy to compel an HSE reaction!

Both the employer and the HSE inspector denied the existance of an accident report. Which was interesting, as Mrs G, naturally, had photocopied it prior to handing it to the head security honcho and had shown it to her senior partner and boss.

Guess what, after we sent them a copy, they found it: in the accident book. Well I never!

Despite the employer and contractors lies and obfuscations and the HSE inspector's admission that the employer's accident recording system was very poor, no prosecution followed.

So, was this tissue of lies and denial coming from a small cowboy outfit?

No: in fact from the largest IT company globally!

Mrs G won the civil action, BTW and we, eventually, laughed all the way to the bank..............

 

 

 

[Gluestick]

[quote user="TWINKLE"][quote user="Coppi"]

 I really have better things to do in my life than spend time reading about other peoples lives which I usually find pretty boring.

[/quote]

There is not a boring day to be had in my life[:)] 

[/quote]

Same for me, Twinks. I refrained from commenting on that, however.

 

[Ron Avery]

Someone trying to imitate Jeremy Clarkson but not getting paid for it said

 "RA, in defence of the H&SE puts up the usual defence of "not me guv" but by the time some of the clowns and "jobsworths" involved in administering many of these regulations the time will come when one will not be able to fart in a public place without the appropriate documentation being in place first." 

Number 1

Perhaps we should be glad that C doesn't write safety instructions given the above which means what exactly?

Number 2

Its the HSE.  And they don't control safety in towns and cities, that is the responsibility of the local authorities.  The HSE would investigate if a serious accident had not been reported to them though.

Number 2

I didn't put up any defence of "not me guv" for anything.  People have a responsibility for their own safety and to those affected by their actions as much as any employer.

Number 4

Before I left the UK,  I went with my team of clowns and jobsworths (and I include the staff Safety reps in that team) to receive an award for 1 million hours of accident free work by the staff that worked under our procedures and systems of work in a high risk work environment involving high voltage electricity supply.  An achievement of which we were all justly proud,  so inane safety jobsworths and fart jokes are water off a duck's back.

Its quite funny but in my experience those who take the urine out of safety professionals are the least likely to do anything about an unsafe situation and the first to moan about inadequacies of which they have done nothing to rectify afterr the event,did  Mrs Gluey volunteer to be the trained first aider, of course not, leave it to somebody else[:'(].

[AnOther]

[quote user="Coppi"]I really have better things to do in my life than spend time reading about other peoples lives which I usually find pretty boring.[/quote]Sorry if we bore you but even if we do I fail to see the need for unneccessary rudeness.

If your last couple of posts are the best you can come up then may I humbly suggest you exercise your right to refrain from further visits or participation, I think it's unlikely anybody will miss you [:P]

Wishing you nice 'unboring' day [;-)]

 

[Gluestick]

[quote]Its quite funny but in my experience those who take the urine out of safety professionals are the least likely to do anything about an unsafe situation and the first to moan about inadequacies of which they have done nothing to rectify afterr the event,did  Mrs Gluey volunteer to be the trained first aider, of course not, leave it to somebody else.[/quote]

I see your silver tongue is hard at work once more, this morning, Ron.

Probably rather pointless Mrs Gluey volunteering since they already had two SRNs on staff.........

And at her level, I doubt she enjoyed the time.

Your safety record is most laudable: that said of course and since employers are bound to have Employer's Liability Insurance and are liable under statute as well as common law for tort, most employers take a rather sanguine view about killing and injuring staff in hostile working environments, since civil action for death and injury tends to be rather a tad more costly than the rare criminal prosecutions led by the HSE, where in most cases the penalties are derisory, in comparison. As are all statutory penalties in the UK relating to work, employment and etc.

I also employed a number of workers in what was always a dangerous environment with no accidents or injuries: despite the workers, I have to say!

And furthermore, I instituted a range of health and safety measures well before I was statutorily bound so to do, since I was not a prototypical Victorian mill owner!

My personal experience of Shops, Railways and Factory inspectors, (the earlier incarnation) as well as HSE, is that in the main, they were pen pushing, form filling busybodies and about as much use as a one legged man at a derriere kicking party.

As I asked one rather nasty little bureaucrat from the SRF and O inspectorate, replete with hallitosis, dandruff and a plastic briefcase, who pounced just after I'd finished a total re-fit of a large, old garage workshop, "Where were you during the last ten years?"

He assured me that the premises had been regularly inspected. I just guffawed!

The one functioning powerpoint was an old 15 amp roundpin, mounted on a wooden base, wiring inside steel conduit, with the rubber sheathing cracked and bare wires where it went around the corners with the covers missing; hanging from the top conduit 'cos the rawplug (Singular) had pulled out of the wall and sited under a water leak in the roof.

The compressor and airline exploded at least once a week! NO safety cert or test data on the air receiver was available or current. As were there no test certs on the lifting tackle: and no SWL notice.

And so on.

Me, take these clowns seriously?

Come on!

 

[powerdesal]

Pressure vessel certicates? Lifting tackle certificates?

You mean I should check those?

Next you will be saying I should check mobile cranes for in date test certificates , what next ? Fire extinguishers - you are joking, please tell me you are joking.  [:P]

[Dick Smith]

My red fire extinguisher clashed with the blue carpet, so I locked it in a cupboard.

[Gluestick]

I kid you not, Steve, the place was a deathtrap!

Since circa 1930 - some 39 years before I bought it, the floors had been treated with copious quantities of sawdust to try and mop up grease and oil spills: it was like the mud when the tide was out! Pulling a large trolley jack along was fun to say the least!

If one was under the ramp trying to lift down a heavy gearbox, e.g., one was liable to find ones' feet sliding away, sideways!

One store room was full of old newspaper and masking tape from car spraying, just dumped inside and left: fire hazard?

Another was full of old rusted exhausts.

We had three 7 ton lorry loads of scrap collected by the local yard: including three part-dismantled Isetta bubble cars.

And so it went on.

Fire extinguishers: what were they?

I even had a chum who was sales manager for Pyrene, give all the people, even the nice lass who worked in the office, fire training in the yard: we set fire to a shallow dish full of petrol and he demonstrated how to put it out safely. They all had to have a go.

And then we installed powder, foam, CO2 and water extinguishers. Each clearly marked (and pressure certified!).

 

[powerdesal]

I find it quite disturbing that all modern fire extinguishers are red, irrespective of the contents. It is probably some H & S ruling but it seems a retrograde step. I wouldn't want to use a water / gas on an electrical or oil fire because I didn't have the right glasses on and couldn't read the contents label clearly.

Your tale brought back memories of a fire demo at Mather & Platt in Manchester. Demonstrator standing in a large tray of diesel dropping lit matches round his feet to make the point. It was 40+ years ago but the point clearly stuck.

[Gluestick]

Yes, you are right, Steve.

Ours used to be Blue; Ochre, Red and Yellow, I think.

The "Plumbed In" BCF  (Halon) types we used for single seater racing cars under the then new FIA regs were different again. I used to buy them from a firm outside Heathrow, 'cos BromoChloroDiFluoroMethane (Cor! I remembered it!) was an aircraft industry standard.

They were in an alloy bottle and everyone polished them to look nice! Can't remember the virgin colour, though?

Ah!

 

[powerdesal]

And black for CO2

[AnOther]

It's always struck me as an act of near lunacy to have all extinguishers painted red, god know where that 'gem' originated, but certainly here offshore I can't see how it's made the situation any safer and possibly made it less so. The only thing I can say is that with the training we receive we are at least aware of it and should know which one to use in a given circumstance.

I have a small Halon bottle in my MG BTW and it's red although for some reason I seem to have it in my head that they were green [8-)]

 

 

[Gluestick]

[quote user="powerdesal"]And black for CO2
[/quote]

I still have one of the CO2 type in my garage. It's dull sort of ochre, Steve............

 

[Chancer]

[quote user="Gluestick"]

Fire extinguishers: what were they?

I even had a chum who was sales manager for Pyrene,

[/quote]

Ah Pyrene, that brings back memories, do you mean the refillable type with the detonator plunger handle that sell for loads at flea markets nowadays?

In my apprenticeship days I was welding up minis 1100s & all manner of britains finest most evenings and weekends after I had invested in a trolley jack and BOC portapak which combined cost me several months wages.

My first fire extinguishers were fairy liquid or squezy bottles filled with water and I then graduated to the above pyrene type which was much more effective and also a very good general workshop prank weapon. I paid the price though as the first time that I had to use it for its intended purpose one of my associates (a previous victim of mine) had refilled it with Contect duck oil.

The result was quite spectacular and certainly got my attention necessitating whipping out all of other the serviceable home made "extinguishers". I liberated a proper one after that with a pressure guage so that I knew it had not been tampered with.

I also found out the hard way that talcum powder is a poor substitute to use for refilling a dry powder extinguisher (pressurised with a soda syphon bulb) as it makes an explosive dust cloud.

[Kitty]

fairy liquid or squezy bottles filled with water

I remember Sqeezy bottles (I think that the spelling was without a 'u' after the 'q'?) - were they black?  I tried to look for a picture of one on the internet without success.

My Dad used them, filled with soapy water, to wash the windscreen of his Ford Popular (one central wiper), leaning out of the window as we were driving along.

[powerdesal]

[quote user="ErnieY"]

I have a small Halon bottle in my MG BTW and it's red although for some reason I seem to have it in my head that they were green [8-)]

 [/quote]

My memories say green also.

GS,  definitely black, we still have some on the power station.

[powerdesal]

Surely Sqeezy bottles were white with green writing??????????????

[Gluestick]

When (if!) I have a mo, Steve, I'll take a pic. Definitely flat browny yellowish.

The game with the Co2s, JR, was to squirt a quick daffy over a fellow worker's crotch and freeze the important bits!

And yes, the plunger types: I'm still using two as the air reservoirs for my home garage compressor, built from a redundant Mk IV Zodiac Executive air-conditioning pump and a Brooks 2995 RPM motor I used for the paintshop extractor fan I built in half of a 50 gallon oil drum!

The tanks were brand new and tinned: rolled steel with rivetted top and bottoms and last hydraulic pressure tested by me to 475 psi, working at only 150 psi.

Well, I did say I had a chum at Pyrene! [;-)]

You would love the "Unloader"!

The clutch on the air-con pump (Twin Cylinder York, almost brand new when I built the compressor), is magnetic.

So I fitted a gash 240/12 Volt tranny and also a neat little transistor switch circuit with a relay, heavily "Slugged" with an electrolytic capacitor.

When the pressure switch demands more, (mean High to Low), the switch switches, which enables the transistor, which enables the relay, but the capacitor delays whilst it charges and the clutch doesn't come in for circa three seconds: by which time the motor is up to speed.

All been going well now for circa 37 years, with a re-build ten years ago, or so.

n.b. Edit: Goebbels is becoming insane! Just starred out the "C O N for air-conditioning! perhaps as well as Sarkozy arranging to have my favourite French newsreader, M. Patrick Poivre D'Arvor (TFN) sacked, he's now started on Air Conditioning, to save energy!