UK National lottery

[NickP]

Any one got any information about the legality of buying UK national lottery tickets on line while the buyer is in France? I have done this now for five years and had small (£10) wins credited to my account without problems. There now seems to be a scare going round about the legality of buying tickets while abroad, and that Camelot might not pay out if you win. They give no warnings when you "log on",  and they accept your money. I looked at the terms and conditions and they are; I think; deliberately vague, they say "they cannot identify which counties are involved as local laws change constantly"  Interesting that they do not give a warning at log on time, as if you try to watch anything on BBC IPlayer from France, a notice appears that says this service is not available in your region. I would just hate to win a bigger prize and then get told "no mate you bought this in France, we can't pay you out".

[Russethouse]

From the FAQs  http://www.national-lottery.co.uk/player/p/help/faqs.ftl#int_GetStarted2

Can I play while overseas?

Please remember, you need to be a resident of the UK or Isle of Man at all times when you play UK National Lottery games through your interactive Account.

In countries outside of the UK and Isle of Man, local laws often prevent the sale or purchase of tickets for any overseas lottery. To protect players and the UK National Lottery, the National Lottery Rules and Terms and Conditions prohibit people from playing online in any country where it is unlawful to do so. Lawfulness will vary from country to country and, possibly, from time to time. This also means that, under local laws and National Lottery rules, we would not be able to pay out any prize in these circumstances.

Therefore, we would advise players to assume that it is unlawful to purchase a ticket whilst abroad, and to only buy their tickets whilst located in the UK or Isle of Man. We would therefore advise you only to buy your tickets online when you are actually located in the UK or the Isle of Man. This also applies when playing by text.

Looks pretty clear to me, you are not supposed to play.

[NickP]

[quote user="Russethouse"]

From the FAQs  http://www.national-lottery.co.uk/player/p/help/faqs.ftl#int_GetStarted2

Can I play while overseas?

Please remember, you need to be a resident of the UK or Isle of Man at all times when you play UK National Lottery games through your interactive Account.

In countries outside of the UK and Isle of Man, local laws often prevent the sale or purchase of tickets for any overseas lottery. To protect players and the UK National Lottery, the National Lottery Rules and Terms and Conditions prohibit people from playing on line in any country where it is unlawful to do so. Lawfulness will vary from country to country and, possibly, from time to time. This also means that, under local laws and National Lottery rules, we would not be able to pay out any prize in these circumstances.

Therefore, we would advise players to assume that it is unlawful to purchase a ticket whilst abroad, and to only buy their tickets whilst located in the UK or Isle of Man. We would therefore advise you only to buy your tickets online when you are actually located in the UK or the Isle of Man. This also applies when playing by text.

Looks pretty clear to me, you are not supposed to play.

[/quote]I am a resident of the UK, my house here is a holiday home. So now can you answer the rest of the question, is it illegal in France to buy tickets for a foreign lottery? If it is; why do they Camelot UK,  not refuse your money from a computer that is obviously using a foreign telephone line.

[Will]

This extract from French law would seem to suggest that lotteries are illegal in France per se, with certain exceptions allowed by later amendments to the 1836 law. The UK National Lottery does not appear in those amendments.

If you have time to plough through it, the full text is here: http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006071171&dateTexte=20081216

[Russethouse]

 As I believe you can set up an account to add your numbers to the draw ahead of time,  how about taking the easy route and do that for the periods you are away from home, or do Euro millions instead ?

[AnOther]

[quote user="NickP"]So now can you answer the rest of the question, is it illegal in France to buy tickets for a foreign lottery? If it is; why do they Camelot UK,  not refuse your money from a computer that is obviously using a foreign telephone line.[/quote]There is no 'obvious' about it. All Camelot may be able to see, and I stress MAY, is your IP address but that is not conclusive proof of point of origin neither is there any immediate direct link between an IP address and a telephone number so it is really neither possible, nor practical for them to vet online purchases in real time.

It may well be that some record is kept of online purchases though which can be checked in case of a win and queried if they suspect something and if they do then the onus will be placed on the player to prove eligiblity if challenged.

[andyh4]

Just to reinforce ANO's point, I have tried - for purely business reasons - to download BBC programs and have failed since I am in Germany.  I have therfore asked UK work colleagues if they could download for me.  They couldn't either.  Our servers are not in the UK and as far as the BBC is concerned that is all that is needed to not download.  So even the BBC cannot tell where you are - only it seems where the server is.

[AnOther]

You can of course use a proxy server to make it appear that you are in the UK [;-)]

Franky, if I was that desperate to play the UK National Lottery - and be as near bombproof as you could get as a non UK resident - I'd get my son or daughter to buy me a ticket in their corner shop [:D]

[mint]

And you'd just have to trust that the offspring will split the proceeds with you when the ticket comes up trumps![:D]

[AnOther]

I'm truly sorry for anyone who could not so trust their offspring, I know we could without a seconds hesitation [;-)]

[NickP]

[quote user="AnOther"][quote user="NickP"]So now can you answer the rest of the question, is it illegal in France to buy tickets for a foreign lottery? If it is; why do they Camelot UK,  not refuse your money from a computer that is obviously using a foreign telephone line.[/quote]There is no 'obvious' about it. All Camelot may be able to see, and I stress MAY, is your IP address but that is not conclusive proof of point of origin neither is there any immediate direct link between an IP address and a telephone number so it is really neither possible, nor practical for them to vet online purchases in real time.

It may well be that some record is kept of online purchases though which can be checked in case of a win and queried if they suspect something and if they do then the onus will be placed on the player to prove eligibility if challenged.

[/quote]If you are correct, please tell me how come the BBC will not allow me to use the IPlayer as they say that this service is not available in your region. I use a French ISP when I am in France  and a French telephone line; so it is obvious to the BBC where I am. .  So, if it is illegal to purchase foreign lottery tickets in France why do Camelot take my money and not warn me that I am breaking the law? Or why do they not categorically state in their rules which country's do not allow you legally to purchase foreign lottery tickets. I think the answer is either it's not illegal to purchase UK lottery tickets in France or  Camelot is taking peoples money under false pretences. Any one with the definitive answer?

[Will]

The BBC is enforcing the terms of its broadcasting license, which it obviously feels it has a responsibility to do. Camelot however has no responsibility to enforce French law.

[NickP]

[quote user="Will"]The BBC is enforcing the terms of its broadcasting license, which it obviously feels it has a responsibility to do. Camelot however has no responsibility to enforce French law.
[/quote] The BBC doesn't bother enforcing it's responsibility's in regard to broadcasting when it comes to  satellite , nor does any other "British" broadcaster. As for Camelot they have no interest in French or any other country's laws unless it gives them an escape route into not paying out. Still waiting for the answer, is it legal to purchase UK lottery tickets in France, YES or NO?????

[PeterG]

[quote user="NickP"][quote user="Will"]The BBC is enforcing the terms of its broadcasting license, which it obviously feels it has a responsibility to do. Camelot however has no responsibility to enforce French law.
[/quote] The BBC doesn't bother enforcing it's responsibility's in regard to broadcasting when it comes to  satellite , nor does any other "British" broadcaster. As for Camelot they have no interest in French or any other country's laws unless it gives them an escape route into not paying out. Still waiting for the answer, is it legal to purchase UK lottery tickets in France, YES or NO?????[/quote]

 

People on here are giving you their opinions and advises............. If you don't like them and want the definitive answer

Then ring Camelot yourself.

I'm sure the cost will be less than a couple of tickets

[Will]

Is this a five-minute argument or the full half hour?

(acknowledgements to Monty Python)

[Weedon]

In paying homage to dah doo ron ron, may I put my answer as he would do(o) ron ron.

As the OP has been told a few times that you must purchase the tickets whilst in the UK and not outside it, go ahead and purchase as many tickets as you wish, then if you get the "big one" and Camelot tell you hard cheese chum your claim is worthless, you cannot say that you didn't know about it.

I of course wouldn't be so blunt as to put it like that as I am much too polite. [;-)]

[suein56]

[quote user="Will"]Is this a five-minute argument or the full half hour?

(acknowledgements to Monty Python) [/quote]

Love it!

Nice to see you Will, nice.

Sue [;-)]

[Russethouse]

[quote user="Weedon"]

In paying homage to dah doo ron ron, may I put my answer as he would do(o) ron ron.

As the OP has been told a few times that you must purchase the tickets whilst in the UK and not outside it, go ahead and purchase as many tickets as you wish, then if you get the "big one" and Camelot tell you hard cheese chum your claim is worthless, you cannot say that you didn't know about it.

I of course wouldn't be so blunt as to put it like that as I am much too polite. [;-)]

[/quote]

 If the OP wins the big one maybe we could all put in the claim...unless of course its a retrospective question and the money is there waiting to already [:)]

[NickP]

"People on here are giving you their opinions and advises............. If you don't like them and want the definitive answer

Then ring Camelot yourself. "

Well I might do that,  I just thought it was a good subject to encourage debate. After all that is what forums are about or have I missed something. With a bit of luck if I can find the geographical number it won't cost anything, as Teleconnect; if it's working will put the right plugs into the correct holes and I will get the info straight from the horses mouth. If I do I will pass on the result. Sorry I must go as I have to check tonights numbers, you never know. 

[Clair]

[quote user="NickP"]I just thought it was a good subject to encourage debate. After all that is what forums are about or have I missed something. [/quote]

There's a world of difference between having a debate and demanding answers and SHOUTING...

[NickP]

[quote user="Clair"][quote user="NickP"]I just thought it was a good subject to encourage debate. After all that is what forums are about or have I missed something. [/quote]
There's a world of difference between having a debate and demanding answers and SHOUTING..

[/quote].Excuse me, who's shouting? As for demanding answers I am not demanding anything, just asking if anybody has an answer to a specific question, as some of the replies are opinions not answers, or has that gone over your head? I think it has. I have taken on board peoples opinions, indeed I welcome them, but am still looking for the answer, so lets stick to the debate in hand. By the way I didn't get the six numbers last night.

[Clair]

[quote user="NickP"]Excuse me, who's shouting? As for demanding answers I am not demanding anything, just asking if anybody has an answer to a specific question, as some of the replies are opinions not answers, or has that gone over your head? I think it has. [/quote]

Example of demanding and SHOUTING:

[quote user="NickP"]Still waiting for the answer, is it legal to purchase UK lottery tickets in France, YES or NO?????[/quote]

You say that:

[quote user="NickP"]I have taken on board peoples opinions, indeed I welcome them[/quote]

But rather than saying "thank you for your replies", you post:

[quote user="NickP"]Still waiting for the answer, is it legal to purchase UK lottery tickets in France, YES or NO?????[/quote]

[Russethouse]

Have you looked at

http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006071171&dateTexte=20081216 as Will suggested ?

The facts have been pointed out, its not up to Camelot to act as your nanny, its up to you to act in accordance to the rules and reg. As I understand it from a legal guy who posts here, your intention is important, if you knowingly buy a ticket while in France when you are in possession of the facts then I wouldn't give much for chances of a successful claim should you win.

[gosub]

"Please remember, you need to be a resident of

the UK or Isle of Man at all times when you play UK National Lottery

games through your interactive Account."

So if you are a verifiable UK resident, I don't see the problem.

[AnOther]

I think you missed the point.

Yes you need to UK resident, but the issue at hand is that of buying a ticket whilst in a country where it is not legal to do so. Spain we know is one such case but the situation in France has yet to be conclusively confirmed one way or the other.