Newbie

[Val_2]

For what it's worth, if I were buying for the first time,a holiday home I would buy modern not old or rustic,knowing what I do from having a 450year old house and OH being in the building trades here. Many is the time we wished we had done things differently, even to the point sometimes when things were tight or unpleasant of wishing we had moved full time to another country altogether. Please remember that what you invest in a propery you will never ever recoup should you wish to sell, complete renovation sees the purchase price paid as approx 20% of the overall cost of ending up with a decent place. For holidays I would go small, modern and well placed so you don't have acres of garden you spend all your time working on and you can just arrive, enjoy your stay andthen lock up and leave. As for prices, some areas are more stagnant than others and traditonally seaside resorts command the highest prices but a few kms inland can still be affordable.

[Will]

If you are intending to buy a house in France because that's where you want to be - either permanently or part-time - then you will probably do it anyway, regardless of the negative points.

If you are looking for a return on investment, forget it. There are many better ideas.

[Sprogster]

Bill, based on a comparative purchasing power index the fair value £/euro exchange rate should be around 1.28. All curriencies are cyclical and in due course £ interest rates will likely move ahead of the euro, as inflationary pressures in the UK will be greater thanks to quantitive easing. At that point the £ is likely to strengthen against the Euro.

It is not a question of the £ getting stronger, more the case that the euro is fundamentally still overvalued against the £ and US$, and in the longer term when the US starts to recover that's when you will see the euro weaken.

With the exception of Germany, all the other Eurozone economies reported worse growth than the UK over the last qtr.

[powerdesal]

Whilst not wishing to derail the thread topic, the web site below is interesting in regard to the heating cost comments by myself and Cooperlola:-

http://www.biomassenergycentre.org.uk/portal/page?_pageid=75,59188&_dad=portal

[basquesteve]

My advice if you have sufficient funds to buy  a house in France is to purchase a decent mobile home France is two big to explore from one place Having lived here 15 years I am now considering my 3 move  Remember the grass has to be cut bills payed and winter maintenance, which  is a nightmare if you are not here

[Keni]

Whilst deciding what to do, you might be better off renting for 6 months - move around in a camper and find your preferred location.

Don't buy too rural if you are hoping to retire to your home. Great whilst you are young, being in the middle of nowhere when older means you have to be able to drive to shops, buy bread etc.

Do you need a ponderosa? Having to spend 2 weeks cutting grass each year in summer rather than having a day out. Plus, remember taxes all mount up, the larger the habitat.

We have gas bottle water and cooking. All we need really - 30 euros or less every six weeks each bottle great for showers as well. Electricity bill for last 2 months-29 euros.

It's down to what you are looking for. Most of all speak French, or learn to. You'll get further and more done if you can understand your neighbours and vice versa.:)

[Bill]

Thankyou one and all for the comments , the FX views, and from buying a mobile, to renting, to , burning the money as a cheaper option!!

Yes it's all about a life style choice , lets hope we make the right one.

I will let you know how we get on next week, if we plunge or if we dont.

kind rgds Bill

[Bill]

[quote user="Sprogster"]Bill, based on a comparative purchasing power index the fair value £/euro exchange rate should be around 1.28. All curriencies are cyclical and in due course £ interest rates will likely move ahead of the euro, as inflationary pressures in the UK will be greater thanks to quantitive easing. At that point the £ is likely to strengthen against the Euro.

It is not a question of the £ getting stronger, more the case that the euro is fundamentally still overvalued against the £ and US$, and in the longer term when the US starts to recover that's when you will see the euro weaken.

With the exception of Germany, all the other Eurozone economies reported worse growth than the UK over the last qtr.[/quote]

I would like to think u are right, but...

Look what happened today, The slovaks voted against the euro rescue, and the dollar and the pound lost ground/weakened,.

Perhaps it's because it was an ""irish vote""

u vill keep voting till you get the right answer !!

rgds Bill

[cooperlola]

[quote user="powerdesal"]Whilst not wishing to derail the thread topic, the web site below is interesting in regard to the heating cost comments by myself and Cooperlola:- /qhttp://www.biomassenergycentre.org.uk/portal/page?_pageid=75,59188&_dad=portal ][/quote]

What do pellets cost over here, Steve?

Again, sorry to carry on with a different bit of your question, Bill, but energy costs are a factor for you aren't they?

[powerdesal]

The last price I found was ( I think) E235 / tonne bulk delivered. It may be out of date. I will see if I can find the site again.

[Bill]

final question , I dont think !

fees,

notaires and estate agents.. who pays , ? seems to be negotiable, Non the less how much is normal ? , not what is the head line price

assuming its a 250k purchase.

rgds Bill

thnks

[idun]

You do. The vendor doesn't pay these charges.

However, I negociated with our estate agent when we were selling as I didn't want any potential buyers paying more than they had to in fees.

[Rabbie]

[quote user="idun"]

You do. The vendor doesn't pay these charges. 

[/quote]Really? The buyer pays out the least possible he can to obtain the property. The seller accepts the most he can get for the property. There is a difference between these amounts which the agent takes. So really both the the seller and the buyer are paying the agents fees. The buyer then has to pay the notaire but that is fixed by law

[idun]

I have argued that the more the estate agent takes the less the vendor gets. I was told in the past that that was rubbish and I didn't know what I was talking about.

I know it is not rubbish as the money that one pays to the estate agent would be better in the vendors hands. Or split between the two parties. Still this meeting up of both parties is fairly hard to do sans an estate agent and they want say 7% in France....... and boy did we try to sell on our own before we signed up with an agency.

 

For example we wanted 100.000 for our home and the estate agent wanted 6000€ then there are the notaires fees on top. So the house goes on the market for 115.000. We get what we want and the buyer pays the other fees. That is how it worked where we lived. I negociated a 7000€ plafond for the agent's fees. They wanted more, but I said I would go else where and they agreed;

 

[Bill]

so what is the norm ? is there a percentage / whats fair ? I think most in the uk would consider 1 percent to be a bit to cheap , 2 percent to be right and three percent a rip off..

rgds

bill

[andyh4]

Get ready to feel ripped off Bill.

 

5% is usual minimum, though some will have negotiated less - but probably for horrendously expensive property - obviously an agent is more likely to give up 1% on a 1m€ deal (which admittedly is 10k but means he can still get 40k) than he will on a 100k house.

6% seemed to be normal when we were looking - which was very much becoming a sellers market and room for manoevre was limited.

7% is getting a bit pircey in my view

But if you go through a UK agent selling through a French agent I have heard numbers as high as 9-10% - sheer greed.

 

Does a French agent do more than a UK one - not as far as I am aware.

Does a French agent have higher costs than a UK one - yes

Does a French agent have lower turnover than a UK one - generally yes.

SO hence the higher fees.

[idun]

This is a contract between the vendor and the agent and then the purchaser pays. Getting the agent down can be hard, and the vendor will be expected to reduce their price during any negociations. Say an average of 6%, but it could be more or less.

 

Frankly you won't know anyway. The prices shown at the agents are including their fees.Remember there is a huge lump at the notaires, most of which is a tax and are even higher if a mortgage is taken.

 

http://www.calcul-frais-de-notaire.fr/

on a purchase of 250000 think approx 16-17K€ at the notaires.

[mint]

[quote user="idun"]

This is a contract between the vendor and the agent and then the purchaser pays. Getting the agent down can be hard, and the vendor will be expected to reduce their price. Say an average of 6%, but it could be more or less.

 

Frankly you won't know anyway. The prices shown at the agents are including their fees.Remember there is a huge lump at the notaires, most of which is a tax and are even higher if a mortgage is taken.

[/quote]

But, you DO know, id, you could ask how much the fees are.  Also, when the compromis is sent to you, it would say clearly what the house costs and how much the fees are.

Afterthought:  Bill, DON'T even compare, not even in your own head, the difference in fees of UK agents and French ones.  There is no comparison and you'd just make yourself ill if you do![I]

[idun]

Yes, I know that, but the fees are unavoidable and are always going to be a lot in France.  As they have to be paid what is the point in fretting over them and as they are included in the prices at estate agents, or should be, then one budgets accordingly? non, oui?

[mint]

Exactly, id!  That's why I advised the OP not to even think about them or make comparisons between the two countries.

The thing to do is to work out how much absolute total you can afford and then work backwards, taking out the statutory notaire's fees, give yourself a bit of a margin for contingencies and then you get left with best and final offer.

However, a large change in the exchange rates downwards for sterling can throw all of your plans and calculations out the window![6]

[andyh4]

[quote user="idun"]

Frankly you won't know anyway. The prices shown at the agents are including their fees.[/quote]

 

Depends on the agent Idun - althoug I have seen a tend towards the frais being included - maybe because 6% of 40k did not sound a lot of money 10 years ago, but 6% 150k today is begining to be big money

[idun]

Maybe this depends on where. It was always included in all the agencies in our part of France.

 

Edit, and yes, when the house is dearer then it is starting to be big money. Friends paid 15000€ in estate agent fees and that was why I negociated ours. And yes everything is on that paperwork at the end, all the fees etc. In fact when we sold the notaire had put down the usual and  how much our buyers had got for their own house when they sold it, which seemed rather odd to me.

[cooperlola]

It's a nice idea to ignore the fees element but it is important to be aware of it as it will get up and bite you in the bum when you come to sell.  Yet one more reason  (as is pointed out so often on this forum) not to treat French property as an investment and certainly not a short-term one!

[Pommier]

Best thing to do is buy privately and thereby not give the agents any money. It's no more difficult as a notaire will still deal with the legalities (and the taxes!).

Try sites such as Leboncoin, Viva Street or Particulier à Particulier.

It's the easiest way to save huge amounts of money buying a house.

[Benjamin]

The subject of agents' fees always seems to  generate more confusion than clear explanation whenever it is discussed.

When we appointed our agent we had a written agreement with him which stated the amount net vendeur that we were to receive if the sale went through at the advertised selling price. Nothing could be clearer.

As it happened our buyer could not afford the full asking price so we sat down with a sub-agent who we'd appointed in the first instance (the son of English friends to cover the UK angle), the French agent who the sub-agent had recommended to us and between us, with all three giving a little we came to an acceptable agreement on who was  to receve what from the actual selling price.

Simple and straighforward.   [:D]