Quillan Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Seems he will run again.http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/29/nicolas-sarkozy-ump-party-leadership-elected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Pity, but I think he wont be unopposed.Perhaps the court cases will catch up with him first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 France really does seem to be in a suicidal mood at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Couldnt agree more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted November 30, 2014 Author Share Posted November 30, 2014 I prefer Sarkozy to Hollande but by far my greatest fear is Le Penn. Thing is I can see her giving both a good run for their money because I think people are a bit 'P'ed off with both. At least Sarkozy would trim (I hope) the functionaires down a bit but like all politicians he will not trim at the top (they are probably his mates) but at the bottom, the ones that actually do something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Sarko, I hate the man, I lived most of my time in France with Tonton as President, and the things he did were radical, with sweeping cuts and changed France in ways I don't think that many realise. And then with Black Jack who did not really seem to do much apart from keep the Mitterand 'way' going......... and then sarko came along and in his little time did things that were very very bad for us, strange after all we had been through. Never thought I would have prefered either of the former two, but oh my, I did!Sarko....... do I want him back, no. Do I want Le Pen........ no. Do I want Hollande......no.What a mess, as bad as the guignols we have in the UK who want our votes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJT Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Does anyone not think there is a chance Alain Juppé may be the next UMP leader? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickles Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 [quote user="WJT"]Does anyone not think there is a chance Alain Juppé may be the next UMP leader?[/quote]The man who was banned from public office initially for ten years? The potential leaders of the centre-right have been so focussed on fighting amongst themselves that they have created the conditions for Sarko's return. Brilliant work there, lads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Shouldn't Juppé have been in this vote if he was up for the leadership or presidential elections? I was wondering about this the other day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJT Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 [quote user="Pickles"][quote user="WJT"]Does anyone not think there is a chance Alain Juppé may be the next UMP leader?[/quote]The man who was banned from public office initially for ten years? The potential leaders of the centre-right have been so focussed on fighting amongst themselves that they have created the conditions for Sarko's return. Brilliant work there, lads.[/quote] Oh dear, I didn't know. It looks like France is on a loser no matter which party gets in. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Does it really matter who is the figure head when the issues of who actually runs france go so much deeper?It's all just window dressing surely?http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2853251/US-tycoon-refuses-rescue-doomed-French-tyre-factory-country-stupid-labour-laws-communist.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickles Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 [quote user="Théière"]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2853251/US-tycoon-refuses-rescue-doomed-French-tyre-factory-country-stupid-labour-laws-communist.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490[/quote]Hell's bells, is that factory STILL going? I thought that they knocked it on the head last year. It's like "Groundhog day" (the film) sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted November 30, 2014 Author Share Posted November 30, 2014 I am sure I read or heard somewhere that in the past union members on strike would not be prosecuted for damage, including the setting on fire of cars, when taking industrial action. Sarkozy changed that making such actions illegal but when Hollande got into power he said it was the union members right and changed the law back.Mind you the British can be just as stupid. I don't know if anyone remembers a company called Bradbury and Wilkinson? Basically they produced banknotes for foreign countries at Shannon Corner in New Malden and security inks down near Gatwick airport. The company closed the factory in New Malden so the staff went on strike? Whilst they were blockading the front a demolition crew went in the back and knocked everything down except for the front (facade), its now a Tesco's. Funniest and dumbest thing I ever saw, all holding placards about saving their jobs outside a building that was being knocked down and no longer owned by the company they were demonstrating against. Thing was all that worked there, from the floor sweepers up were in the print union. Their wages were fantastic what with shift allowances etc and it was a job for life even if the person was useless they could never be sacked. They all thought they were going to get a fortune in redundancy payments, in the end they just got the minimum.I often heard French say when I came here first that what France needed was a Thatcher to sort the unions out. They may well be right, you can't have the tail wagging the dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 And that will always depend on how one views life...... the tail wagging the dog thing!The CNRS are there to protect the state of France, I always assume that is generally against it's own people. That is how I have seen them act!So what is a country, it's people or the country. We could have a real debate about this, about values and expectations and how the rich are getting richer and obscenely richer, when the poorer are getting poorer and all I can see is that the rich people's bounty must be coming from somewhere and on the backs of the poor. I never blame anyone for trying to cling onto their jobs, even when they are being blinkered and all too often stupid about it. The 'dog' in this case the government, could make changes and it easier for employers too, but they are also blinkered and stupid. And I shall mention Sarkozy, as he seemed rather good at getting things through ie the alcool test, which appeared louche at best. I wonder if he knew anyone who made such things? And the l'oreal connection, I'd love to know all about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 [quote user="idun"]And I shall mention Sarkozy, as he seemed rather good at getting things through ie the alcool test, which appeared louche at best. I wonder if he knew anyone who made such things? And the l'oreal connection, I'd love to know all about that.[/quote]Yes, I now forget the exact details but the manufacturer was a crony of Sarko's. It was soon after that little news item came out that the ethylotest was quiety dropped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted November 30, 2014 Author Share Posted November 30, 2014 The thing is Idun is that the whole country elects a government and you chose who you vote for. Unions (the tale) represent a particular group or trade, they are not elected by the people. If the unions want to push through changes in general then they can form a political party and canvas for votes like the rest of the politicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 And we don't actually vote for banks or multinational companies either, we don't think about their influence when we buy their products either. I often wonder who runs western countries. As it is rare when we people vote with our pockets ie as in Gerald Ratner's case.Throughout history, brave souls have fought to improve working conditions and make life better if not good for the little people. Would big business have done it all on their own, even those philanthropic ones like the Cadbury's etc........ without a push? I don't criticize the unions too much whilst the rich are getting so much richer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DraytonBoy Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 It's a sad indictment that the only opposition to Hollande is a former president who might come under a criminal investigation and the leader of a far-right party who are borderline racist. It makes the choice between Cameron and Miliband almost palatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickP Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 [quote user="Quillan"]Thing was all that worked there, from the floor sweepers up were in the print union. Their wages were fantastic what with shift allowances etc and it was a job for life even if the person was useless they could never be sacked. [/quote]Funny how people rewrite history, I actually worked at Bradbury Wilkinsons for a very short period of time around 1970, the reason I left was the wages were absolute shite, and that you couldn't live on them. Still don't let the truth spoil a pompous right wing supporters rose tinted view of life. [:P] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted November 30, 2014 Author Share Posted November 30, 2014 [quote user="NickP"][quote user="Quillan"]Thing was all that worked there, from the floor sweepers up were in the print union. Their wages were fantastic what with shift allowances etc and it was a job for life even if the person was useless they could never be sacked. [/quote]Funny how people rewrite history, I actually worked at Bradbury Wilkinsons for a very short period of time around 1970, the reason I left was the wages were absolute shite, and that you couldn't live on them. Still don't let the truth spoil a pompous right wing supporters rose tinted view of life. [:P][/quote]Most of them used to be drink in the Motspur Park Tavern after work bragging how much they earn't and for doing so little. I am more likely to believe them than just one person. I take it you were in 'the print' then? Name calling again I see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 I think it was 1984, I went on Holiday to the Algarve with my potes, it was a cheap deal and we didnt know where we were going to end up, we hit Lucky and were put in a stunning gîte complex set around a pool (except they didnt have gîtes) it was a real exclusive Holiday destination for those where money was no object.Now normally they would have been complaining about the antics of a load of immature drunken Chancers, as it was it was us who had to put up with the extended families there, they were all print workers at Wapping, pig ignorant and proud to be, rolling in money and loving to flash it around, wrinkled drunken perma tanned wives and grannies dripping with gold, the Loadsamonies of the 80"s and the Chavs of the noughties had nothing on this lot.They definitely were not short of a shilling and it wasnt to last.Re Goodyear Amiens, its nearly 10 years here for me now and this was going on before I arrived, the new Goodyear factory over the road with workers who were prepared to bend even just a tiny bit has gone from strength to strength in that time and is the real target in the cross hairs of the American corporation.I recall seeing what I thought was a huge Lee Cooper factory on the same Amiens Nord trading estate, which always had the lights on, cars in the car park but no other signs of activity, turns out it was an ex distribution centre, in the late 90's they had seen how the modern world was moving and were one of the first, at least in France to modernise to direct distribution, same story as Goodyear, I was witness to the factory being occupied, the American bosses being kidnapped, tyres burnt, redressement judiciare, then looking for a repreneur for a business that had no supplier and no Customer for over 7 years, I think that it took a decade in all, the factory is still empty, still signwritten Lee Cooper, I think the owners of the building just gave up on it at the start of the dispute knowing it would be lost to them for a decade so they built another trading estate to attract new businesses.Would you want to set up business near a site that resembles a gypsy encampment in terms of cremated tarmac?P.S. To get back on topic, I will vote for Mr Sarkozy when the time comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 I would accept that as a perfectly reasonable argument, if I didn't believe that the big companies manipulate the politicians, what with all that money and power the multinationals have. I believe that their influence is huge.................. it is as unlikely me thinking differently as me seeing a flying pig in the skies tonight. [Www]Strangely I did see a donkey and a reindeer wandering along a local lane yesterday...... but no flying pigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 [quote user="idun"]Throughout history, brave souls have fought to improve working conditions and make life better if not good for the little people. Would big business have done it all on their own, even those philanthropic ones like the Cadbury's etc........ without a push? I don't criticize the unions too much whilst the rich are getting so much richer. [/quote]Its been interesting to learn how oppressed the French working class once were until comparatively recently in historic terms, what gains they made which even my grandparents had taken for granted but of course like all pendulums it swings too far on its return direction.Regarding philanthropists have a read up on Godin and the familistère at Giuise, both probably incorrectly spelled, their patronalism lasted well beyond all the others but it was the unions that finally killed it.A great museum for anyone interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted December 1, 2014 Author Share Posted December 1, 2014 Idun it is not the company but the shareholders. If you want to change things like directors bonuses or the director even all you need to do is buy a single share and then become an activist within the company. A share gives you a vote and although a single vote is not the same as the penson companies share blocks and votes it give you a right to have your say and if your argument is sound you may be surprised how many might be secretly thinking the same, they just need a prod to speak out. You might at first think I am talking a load of old rollocks but here are just a few where this has actually happened in 2014. Dixons, Burberry, Hiscox, Huntsworth, Bank or America, FirstGroup, Barclays, Coop Bank, M&S, BP, Cairn Energy and the list goes on.You see these sort of rebellions start off with a small group of activists and the one fear the pension companies have is when the activists get publicity because it's 'bad' publicity at the start which affects the price of the shares which means the pension companies don't make so much money (or even lose money). There is a threshold where to push the value of the shares back up the pension companies have to vote with the rebels because by doing so it makes the shareholders look responsible which raises the share value. Best of all is the company you buy the share in actually pays you to be an activist in the form of a dividend.I have shares in several companies including one or two of the above and I always vote against directors pay increases and if I think the 'board' is greedy then I vote against their renewal. Sometimes it works and other times it doesn't but at least I have a say by using my vote. When I lived in the UK, mainly in London, I even went to a few shareholders meetings where you have the right to stand and have your say. People might thing it's stupid but at least if somebody has a go about a particular director about their salary I can say "yes I know and I agree, I have a share in the company and voted against it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Chancer: To get back on topic, I will vote for Mr Sarkozy when the time comes.Have you taken French nationality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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