Sunday opening

[Quillan]

Hoddy, you might be right about working on Sundays in the UK but with the unions in France who are against staff working on Sundays even though I doubt they have asked their members would jump up and down if they felt a person was being forced to work.

Your story about the shower reminded me that about five years ago we wanted to buy some more furniture and went to Butt for a look. We picked out about €9k worth of stuff and were looking around for a couple of bedside tables to finish. It was 5 min to 12 and the guy came up and said we had to go as they were closing for lunch. I pointed out that 'a' I had five minutes to go and 'b' I was about to spend over €9k, in cash, and pulled the money out of my pocket. Didn't batter an eyelid just told me I better come back after two. Needless to say we spent our money elsewhere. I wondered if the guy was on commision? In the UK my experience has been if you have that much cash to spend they will bite your hand off.

[Gardengirl]

I'm another against more Sunday opening than there is at present in France.

In England we've seen what can happen on the roads when Sunday opening arrives, although I appreciate that maybe in France the unions will be strongly opposed to it and keep it more limited. There are massive queues of people in cars trying to drive into and park in our town in England and small roads not far from local shopping centres are also very crowded on Sundays. So anyone heading off to visit Gran or whoever has to queue to get to roads heading away from the area. This we see not so far from our home and fairly close to my brother's home amongst others - there's a Sainsbury's store about a mile away, but anyone who needs to get to the hospital or wants to drive out to the countryside has a slow-moving queue of traffic to face.

I was always opposed to changing the law on Sunday opening, although not a religious person, and I don't shop on Sundays in UK, apart from buying newspapers and visiting restaurants etc, just as we did before Sunday shopping laws were changed. That's my choice, but I don't have any choice about queuing in traffic on Sundays when we want to get out since the change in the law - unless we choose to stay at home each Sunday to avoid it. I regard having one day that is quieter and calmer than the rest of the week a benefit all round, whatever day it is - in our country and many others it has traditionally been a Sunday.

[andyh4]

[quote user="Quillan"] I pointed out that 'a' I had five minutes to go and 'b' I was about to spend over €9k, in cash, and pulled the money out of my pocket. Didn't batter an eyelid just told me I better come back after two. Needless to say we spent our money elsewhere. I wondered if the guy was on commision? In the UK my experience has been if you have that much cash to spend they will bite your hand off. [/quote] Perhaps he realised that you were about to commit an illegal act and did not want to get caught out in what could have been a sting operation. Purchases from residents can be completed in cash for less than €3k. Anything over that and the customer and the seller are both in breach of the legislation.

[Frederick]

I was led to believe that if a shop stayed open or opened earlier and failed to keep to the closure times they could be " dobbed in " by other traders and face a penalty .

[CeeJay]

Apologies for not knowing what all the fuss is about!!

If there are queues on the motorway because of thousands of people shopping and unfortunately it is difficult getting to whereever then surely that proves there is a need, albeit in the minds of those who go shopping.

I used to work shift work and the only time I could get out with my family was when I had a Sunday off. Who should dictate when some other person wants to go shopping, there should be a free choice, at least in this growing secular age and a free choice to work to satisfy that need.

[idun]

I have not got a clue as to what the problem with Sunday opening is. From another era and I cannot relate it's relevance in this day and age..........and when I was young I HATED Sundays, loathed them. And so when a job came up when I could work Sundays, days or nights, I took it with pleasure. My husband also worked Sundays, days or nights. My sons do too, days or nights. Maybe we are unusual, but I doubt it.

AND there are lots of things people expect to be open on a Sunday, especially hospitals and the leisure industry, as well as us getting our utilities and transport, or don't the staff who do this 'count', they have no entitlement to this remarkable quiet day? So for me it is for another era, not 'now'!

[woolybanana]

[quote user="CeeJay"]Apologies for not knowing what all the fuss is about!!

If there are queues on the motorway because of thousands of people shopping and unfortunately it is difficult getting to whereever then surely that proves there is a need, albeit in the minds of those who go shopping.

I used to work shift work and the only time I could get out with my family was when I had a Sunday off. Who should dictate when some other person wants to go shopping, there should be a free choice, at least in this growing secular age and a free choice to work to satisfy that need.

[/quote]

VE ARE FRENCH SOCIALISTS.. you vil do as we fink for yew. Ve know best. So shut up and vote for us!

[Chancer]

Anyone read of the death of this guy?

Probably the most loathsome person that it has ever been my misfortune to meet, he started up the Calais booze cruise supply warehouse called Eastenders, probably close to 20 years since he spoke to me while I was there but the unpleasant memory is still strong.

He was open every day of the week and IIRC 24 hours a day, many like me did booze cruises on a Sunday as it was the cheapest day for tickets or just found it a boring day like Idun, were it not for him we would not have been able to buy any booze which in my case would not have been a bad thing, however many other customers would drop in at all hours of the day before their return crossing, I used to meet all sorts of interesting people there , thie boss man being the exception.

All of the other outlets that sprang up when they realised how much money was to be made and so easily seemed to me to be never open, I now realise of course that they were keeping French hours.

I Wonder hoswhe managed to get away with it, does the current incarnation and the other places open long hours and on Sundays?

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2874023/David-West-death-Mayfair-Stephen-Fry-tells-heard-horrifying-screams-coming-neighbouring-flat.html

[Quillan]

[quote user="andyh4"][quote user="Quillan"] I pointed out that 'a' I had five minutes to go and 'b' I was about to spend over €9k, in cash, and pulled the money out of my pocket. Didn't batter an eyelid just told me I better come back after two. Needless to say we spent our money elsewhere. I wondered if the guy was on commision? In the UK my experience has been if you have that much cash to spend they will bite your hand off. [/quote] Perhaps he realised that you were about to commit an illegal act and did not want to get caught out in what could have been a sting operation. Purchases from residents can be completed in cash for less than €3k. Anything over that and the customer and the seller are both in breach of the legislation.[/quote]

I didn't know that but it does explain why the other shop gave us three factures. They said it was because we were buying stuff for three rooms, one facture per room. Definatly didn't stop them from taking our money. I am sure other shops have a way round the system.

[YCCMB]

I may have missed something, but surely one of the reasons people in France (I mean the shops rather than the shoppers) have remained resistant to Sunday opening is the perception that they'd need more staff? After all, there's the 35/9 hour week, and you couldn't possibly open on another day without additional staff. Others have mentioned getting the current staff to work on Sunday, but given current legislation you would have a job, as they'd be exceeding their authorised hours and there'd be strikes right, left and centre. Let's face it, it never takes much..,

It would cost employers an arm and a leg in cotisations etc., if they had to employ additional staff, and in that bizarre way that French logic often works, they baulk at even working out whether the additional footfall and purchasing would cover it.

In the same way, small shopkeepers don't ever seem to have a member of staff or family whom they can draft in to cover when they go away on holiday, so you see shops all over France shut for 2 or 3 weeks, sometimes during a period when they'd probably do very well, in order to take a holiday. Seems it works out cheaper to lose the takings than to get someone in to run the place. I don't think I've ever come across a small business in retail in the UK where that happens.

If you recall, one of the supposed spinoff benefits of introducing a shorter working week was that there was a misplaced belief that it would create more jobs...but employers simply can't afford the overhead of additional staff. Until the root of that particular problem is examined and addressed, I'd be surprised if Sunday opening as we know it (and as I love it) in the UK will ever get off the ground. Mores the pity, in my view.

[Chancer]

There was a poissonerie in the local town, Christmas was his busiest period with the plateaux de fruits de mer, he brought in a family member to help out with the deliveries, he was denounced by someone, Ursaaf were on his back, there was a very public tribunal meant to send out a message to others and he went bust.

I think fear is the reason that family members dont help out, I know in the past when I have asked friends to help out, be there for me in my absence they have been happy to do so, its after all a fraction of what I do for them, but now that I am officially running a business they cack themselves at the thought even though its me who would cop for everything.

[Chancer]

During the Holiday season when we are besieged by mainly UK WW1 tourists 95% of the restaurants, cafés and small businesses decide to close.

I remember walking in one shop which appeared to be open only to be shooed out by the owner tut tutting and telling me they were closed for the summer holidays, he seemed to take a perverse pleasure in refusing to let me buy what I wanted.

[HoneySuckleDreams]

Isn't there a law coming into effect on Jan 1st making it illegal to employ someone for less than 24hrs a week ? I think there are exceptions if you are under 26 years old

 

friends of no1 son have a shop over in Biarritz, they are open two months in the summer and that earns them enough to spend the other 10months of the year doing naff all...except driving around in his & hers mercs. It seems it depends on what you do and where

 

[dave21478]

[quote user="Quillan"]Your story about the shower reminded me that about five years ago we wanted to buy some more furniture and went to Butt for a look. We picked out about €9k worth of stuff and were looking around for a couple of bedside tables to finish. It was 5 min to 12 and the guy came up and said we had to go as they were closing for lunch. I pointed out that 'a' I had five minutes to go and 'b' I was about to spend over €9k, in cash, and pulled the money out of my pocket. Didn't batter an eyelid just told me I better come back after two. Needless to say we spent our money elsewhere. I wondered if the guy was on commision? In the UK my experience has been if you have that much cash to spend they will bite your hand off.[/quote]

And you can bet he had a good laugh with his workmates over lunch about the "arrogant English fool" who thought his money going into the company till was more important than their lunch break.

Despite everywhere closing at 12, I have yet to find a shop that will let you in after 11.50. It seems that lunch from 12 till 2 means LITERALLY lunch from 12 till 2 and all that pesky stuff like getting the customers out, locking up and getting to the canteen/resto over the road must not cut into the sacred lunch time.

[Chancer]

duplicate

[PaulT]

Dave Mr Bricolage in St Gaudens would not let me in at 11:45!

[dave21478]

Its hopeless isnt it?

I can see them not wanting to let you in to buy a trolley load of stuff, but even when you state you just want a single item, you are still turned away.

The worst is my nearest Intermarche. Its a mid-sized place with 5 tills. They start the tannoy messages about 11.30, and you have to be in the queue for the till by 11.40. The staff sweep the aisles and tell you to get to the queue or get out.

The problem is that whatever fool runs the place decided that they only need 1 till operator in the mornings so the queue is hellish. By 11.45 she looks down the queue and points out a customer who is "last" - and you can bet her estimate is always on the safe side - and everyone behind that person is told to leave.

Meanwhile the entrance is locked and everyone not far enough up the queue is hustled out with the option to leave their trolley in the queue and come back at 2pm to take up their place.

Everyone, including the staff are out the door by 11.50. Come 2pm, the staff appear at exactly 2pm, and the doors are finally opened by about 2.10.

This happened to me once when I first moved here and I have never set foot in the place since. I have not seen it myself, but apparently by 2.30 staff will take any abandoned trolleys or baskets that were not reclaimed after the lunch break and put the goods back on the shelves, including the now half defrosted frozen stuff.

[Quillan]

It does seem to vary across the different departments. Our nearest Intermarche is open at midday and has always been open on Sunday mornings. I was told the Sunday morning thing was something to do with them baking bread there but I am not sure.

Our local Mr Bricolarge (which used to be Weldoms) does not object if you rush in at 11:55 and grab something quick, pay and leave.

I wonder if it is something to do with this not liking 'rich' people, companies and functionaires in France and that people who work in places like supermarkets and DIY stores do the basic just to get the money and try to cut their working time at every opportunity? They don't seem to have much loyalty to those that pay them.

Another gripe of mine with our local (Carrefour) supermarket is stockage. You wander round the supermarket and see something interesting, buy it, take it home and try it. It's rather nice so next time you go back you buy two. The third time you go back there are none left, just a big vacant hole on the shelf which stays empty for weeks.

Another strange thing. We are in winter now but our Carrefour has BBQ lighting and cleaning stuff on the shelf, no glass cleaner or firelighters for our fire. Come the summer months they have all the stuff to clean your fire and little BBQ stuff. They also have special offers. The publicity arrives in your letter box after the event or it arrives before or during the event and half the stuff is not there. Claire put me on to the idea, which is quite within your rights, of going to the 'welcome desk' (thats an oxymoron in a French store) and ask them to order it for you and they can't refuse which is what I do.

In general I find the way the French run businesses makes we wonder how any ever survive.

[Chancer]

Dave.

I never thought that where I lived could be trumped for rudeness, ignorance and plain stupidity until reading about your Intermarché.

The problem has all but gone, here since the big supermarkets staayed open at lunchtimes, presumably it was enforced on them from high because the problem has just changed forms.

In the past Super U used to employ videurs from the nightclub to stand across the doors at 11.40 to stop people entering and to throw out the remainder at 11.50, proper geezers in black suits with the arms cut off to show their tattoed biceps, they stopped me, I thought it was because I wasnt wearing a tie [:D] siad the shop was closed, I pointed out that their remained 15 minutes, they said only for the rayon boulangerie, I said thats where I am going, more fool me because suddenly the world turned upside down and my head was bouncing off the kerb [:(]

Super U and Inter etc  now dont close for lunch, Lidl and Aldi never did, but if you go there at lunchtime there will be only one till open with a queue running to the back of the shop yet there will be 10 staff outside smoking Under the shelter, all paid of course, no_one at the accueil or to be found anywhere else in the shoplifters haven. 

[Pickles]

[quote user="Quillan"]

It does seem to vary across the different departments. Our nearest Intermarche is open at midday and has always been open on Sunday mornings. I was told the Sunday morning thing was something to do with them baking bread there but I am not sure.

Our local Mr Bricolarge (which used to be Weldoms) does not object if you rush in at 11:55 and grab something quick, pay and leave.

I wonder if it is something to do with this not liking 'rich' people, companies and functionaires in France and that people who work in places like supermarkets and DIY stores do the basic just to get the money and try to cut their working time at every opportunity? They don't seem to have much loyalty to those that pay them.

Another gripe of mine with our local (Carrefour) supermarket is stockage. You wander round the supermarket and see something interesting, buy it, take it home and try it. It's rather nice so next time you go back you buy two. The third time you go back there are none left, just a big vacant hole on the shelf which stays empty for weeks.

Another strange thing. We are in winter now but our Carrefour has BBQ lighting and cleaning stuff on the shelf, no glass cleaner or firelighters for our fire. Come the summer months they have all the stuff to clean your fire and little BBQ stuff. They also have special offers. The publicity arrives in your letter box after the event or it arrives before or during the event half the stuff is not there. Claire put me on to the idea, which is quite within your rights, of going to the 'welcome desk' (thats an oxymoron in a French store) and ask them to order it for you and they can't refuse which is what I do.

In general I find the way the French run businesses makes we wonder how any ever survive.

[/quote]

I think that the Sunday morning opening thing is primarily down to size: if the store is less than 300 sq m in area, then it can open legally on Sunday. It may be a requirement that they are primarily selling foodstuffs as well, but I can't remember. There have always been exemptions for shops in holiday areas.

We experienced the "near lunchtime BUT welcome" on one occasion: we went back in, occupied the time of a saleperson for about an hour running hither and yon, drawing up a list, getting prices and availability, then didn't buy. It was a wet day.

We found that when shopping in Carrefour we had to be very careful of items being out of date: at one time Carrefour were running a campaign where if you found an item out of date they would give it to you free - the one time we tested this with an item that was the only one in the store, they tried to charge full price even after the date was pointed out and the in-store notice was pointed out. We left the item behind. On another occasion half of the fresh milk was out of date: no action was taken after this was pointed out. Carrefour's loyalty card was quite a good offer when it came out: now the "points" are meagre to say the least: the only reason why we keep ours is that we can use the "scan-while-you-shop" system, which still saves time, even though they have done their level best to negate the system by making you queue up to be introduced to a self-service pay till by a staff member.

[Quillan]

Well Pickles I have to say that Carrefour don't have the monopoly on selling out of date stuff in France and my wife found the same at Asda, Waitrose and Tesco's in Twickenham UK recently. e have gone 'native' here in France and now pull everything off the shelves to get to the back where the fresh stuff is, just like wot the Frenchies does. [;-)]

Wasn't there a big to do with Champions in France. Something to do with babies dying due to very out of date baby food (or powdered milk perhaps) even after the stores had been fined many times for this. I think I read that this was the reason the Champion name went but then they were owned, or the franchise was owned, by Carrefour anyway.

Their card used to be well worth having for us, just think how many points we used to get what with the B&B and all. Last quarter we got about €12. Now I don't use it at all. It's primary use is for tracking and social grouping to better plan what the supermarkets should sell. Well going back to empty shelves because everyone had bought what was there and they still didn't reorder for weeks why should I help them!

Actually a guy from Casino stayed with us and he was with the IT department. The software is used all over the world but the problem is te store manager has the ability to override it. He said millions had been spent to ensure the software worked fine as did the whole supply chain but many store managers don't like computers and think they knew better so ignore it and ordered manually. This means there is no flag to tell them to check on a particular stock item when the computer knows it has a date overrun hence the out of date stuff and me having to wait six weeks for my (and loads of other peoples) favorite biscuits to be re-ordered.

[dave21478]

Quillan wrote...

"I wonder if it is something to do with this not liking 'rich' people, companies and functionaires in France and that people who work in places like supermarkets and DIY stores do the basic just to get the money and try to cut their working time at every opportunity? They don't seem to have much loyalty to those that pay them."

Yes, i think thats a large part of it. Once an employee has a CDI contract they are pretty much untouchable and short of crapping in the managers sandwiches, there is little they can do to merit being fired. Hence an awful lot of shop workers do the bare minimum they can get away with, knowing full well that there is no point putting any extra effort in and they will still get their salary no matter what.

As for Carrefour, I am ambivalent towards them. They took over a superU on the outskirts of Albi a couple of years ago and little changed in store, including the piles of rat shite visible under the shelves.

I still go there as it is always deserted. Its not unusual for me to be the only customer in the store, and when I finish shopping I find the till operators sitting there doing crossword puzzles. I dont understand why it is open - there is no way they can even come close to making a profit with such low footfall.

No point in worrying about the cleanliness or lack of - pretty much all supermarkets are the same, its just more visible in some than others.

It will never happen due to protectionism, labour laws and various other reasons, but I reckon that if a UK supermarket ever got a foothold in France with a UK work ethic and UK levels of customer care, they would dominate and all others big name French ones would be swept aside within a few years.

[woolybanana]

No, Quillan, the others would force it out of business.

Actually, I find my local Hyper U fine, even if the stock is a tad unimaginative. And I always check dates regardless of where where I am shopping

[Chancer]

95% of my shopping comes from Lidl, 4.9% from Aldi and the remaining 0.1% is where I begrudgingly have to try and find what I need in the grand surfaces.

The Lidl and Aldi are excellent, on par with maybe even better than their UK counterparts, the staff are very hard working and cheerfull, the odd new stagaire that doesnt want to work and displays the normal regional attitude to customers gets short shrift from her colleagues.

I know they dont have any choice but to workn hard, when there is no Customer at the tills they must stock the shelves, their scanning times are monitored, their tea breaks very limited, loads and load of French complain on the internet about the inhuman working conditions, but do you know what, those that do remain there arent frightened by it, they flourish, they are genuinely happy and it shows.

What is the saying, idle hands makes for the devils work or something?

I do keep fit with some of these girls and they really are a pleasure to know which is very different from a lot of the underoccupied ones in the grand surfaces.

I think having a good strong consistent management behind them helps, where the strategic values are transmitted, understood and actioned from the highest to the lowest employee.

The only other company that I have seen like this in France is Ikea although the UPS delivery driver acts the same but he might just be an exception, I would have to see others to be sure.

[PaulT]

In the summer Aldi one week had these devices that enable women to lose weight by grinding their feet away. So about 11:00 on the day they went on sale we rolled up at the branch in Rheimes (31) - we looked and no sign of them. It was a very good offer - Boots in the UK are currently selling these at 50% off which is double what Aldi was selling them for. Then SWMBO spotted a trolley with a number of boxes on it including 3 boxes of these devices of torture. One of the staff was just starting to put out that days offers. I hasten to add we have no problem with the staff.

Now, in the UK walk in to an Aldi or Lidl when they open and all that days offers will be on display.