Keeping Uk Residency?

[dr orloff]

"I have had experience of the UK authorities knowing exactly where,when and how we visited France before we moved here legitimately a long time ago,it was a huge shock and they even had the numbers of the ferry bookings.Everytime you book a ticket to anywhere, that info is passed on and here in France,again everything is noted and also passed on.The only way not to get noticed is by stowing away and never using a bank or service in France."

So everytime anyone in the UK or in France travels abroad that information is passed on?  And to whom? Absolute rubbish. 

 

[Russethouse]

No, it isn't rubbish at all, it may not be passed on there and then but it is available to the authorities if they request or need it - I'm sorry if it makes you uncomfortable.

[minnie]

Who is to know that someone on the forum is not a representative of the authorities?  Even cyberwalls have ears!

[Hagar]

From Brittany Ferries webiste under "Security and Privacy"

"We reserve the right to use or disclose any information without notice or consent as needed to satisfy any law, regulation or legal request; to conduct investigations of consumer complaints or possible breaches of law; to protect the integrity of our site and our property; to protect the safety of our visitors or others; to fulfill your requests; or to cooperate in any legal investigation."

Probably something similar on all the airline sites and the T&C's of your credit card and mobile phone provider.

I know that MOH's former employer ( a government agency) had access to all these details - in the case of cashpoint usage they sometimes did it in almost real time.

rgds

Hagar

 

 

 

 

[Val_2]

[quote user="dr orloff"]

"I have had experience of the UK authorities knowing exactly where,when and how we visited France before we moved here legitimately a long time ago,it was a huge shock and they even had the numbers of the ferry bookings.Everytime you book a ticket to anywhere, that info is passed on and here in France,again everything is noted and also passed on.The only way not to get noticed is by stowing away and never using a bank or service in France."

So everytime anyone in the UK or in France travels abroad that information is passed on?  And to whom? Absolute rubbish. 

 

[/quote] I'll thank you not to say that. It was the local tax office actually when they were doing a crackdown on all the building firms in the town where we lived prior to moving here and I am not a liar because I was there with my OH and our accountant at that time squirming everytime any relevence to France was bought up.They had our passport numbers and the dates of every sailing for the previous years of travelling, so there!

[Bugsy]

 

[:D][:D]

[Ron Avery]

[quote user="dr orloff"]So everytime anyone in the UK or in France travels abroad that information is passed on?  And to whom? Absolute rubbish.[/quote]

Not passed on, just recorded.  You seem to know a lot about how to duck and dive Dr, the same as a lot of occasional posters who never reveal where they live and surface from time to time on here, often full of crap advice for others about how to dodge this and that without thinking for one second of the consequences to the other person.  In most cases it also turns out they know little about French life, laws, rules, procedures or living.

So for the time being,  if someone who lives here, runs a business here and represents her commune says something that you say is rubbish, I will have no problem in deciding who might be really talking rubbish.

[gosub]

I have first hand knowledge of this, a friend who used to stay sometimes in a house I owned in France (this was in the 90's)  was called to go into his local tax office in the UK and they knew exactly the dates and number of times that he had traveled to France.

[cooperlola]

I (in common with many others, no doubt) have a new "chipped" passport, which I have watched being scanned every time I go through the tunnel.  These days, it doesn't take rocket science for the "powers that be" to join up the dots.

[dr orloff]

This is the statement that was made:

"Everytime you book a ticket to anywhere, that info is passed on and here in France,again everything is noted and also passed on."

That is rubbish , it simply does not happen.  Information is available upon request if an investigation is conducted by the authorities.  But that is not the same as everyone's travel patterns being routinely disclosed.  If an old lady wishes to visit relatives and happens to spend a little over six months a year doing so then the chances of being found out are minimal.  It is a risk but other postings give the impression that the gendarmes will be round on day 184. 

 

[Russethouse]

Hair splitting dr ?[:)]

[dr orloff]

No, not hair splitting.  There is a massive difference between the authorities being passed information routinely - ie: effectively keeping tabs on everyone and selecting an individual to investigate.   I'm surprised you can't understand the difference.

[Russethouse]

I understand the difference very well, what is important for the OP is that she understands that you have to be truthful - you just can't make up arrival and departure dates, they have to be genuine. (not that I am suggesting for one moment that this was her intention)Of course we don't actually KNOW that the authorities do not get this info routinely do we ? We summize it isn't the case.... What we do know is that the info is available should it be required........................so the poster who said 'who's to know?' was wrong in thinking no one would.

[dr orloff]

I agree that one should be truthful according to the law  - ie: more than six months a year should be declared as residency in France.   But one doesn't have to be truthful.  Of course, appreciate the consequences of ignoring the law.  But I maintain that the risks of being investigated for someone who visits relatives, doesn't own a property in France, derives no earned income and maintains a UK residence are pretty low.

You can't seriously believe that there is a system somewhere that logs and actively monitors the movements of everybody to and from the UK, and/or France.

 

[Tony F Dordogne]

Dr Orloff, in France there is an interconnected system of information transfer between government departments, many of whom have investigative powers way beyond those of similar departments in the UK.  This subject comes up every now and again and the last time it was raised, somebody (Will or Clair perhaps) posted the list, all of whom share information about people in France on a daily basis, it's high speed, computerised and isn't that far behind the current date.  Everybody, la monde.

And from experience I know that all movement into and out of France is monitored, not necessarily through the use of passport details but all passenger lists, which includes booking addresses, payment details etc are returned to the government here.

What you say is partially correct, why would anybody want to check on somebody's aged mother?  Until of course, something goes wrong and the EHIC card is invalidated because some bright spark puts two and two together and gets things right.  I can assure you that things like that do happen here, again from experience.

[Tony F Dordogne]

Do you live or have a house in France Dr Orloff, it always helps to give a location with your avatar, saves all sorts of speculation?

[Bugsy]

[quote user="Tony F Dordogne"]Do you live or have a house in France Dr Orloff, it always helps to give a location with your avatar, saves all sorts of speculation?[/quote]

and what sort of Volvo you drive...........................[:D][:D]

 

note: for non-bikers, in the days when Volvos killed more motorcyclists than any other car, they were known as OVLOV's (Volvo in your rear-view mirror)

[Moulin85]

Most people don’t realise the volume of information today’s governments know about then make the old communist regimes appear pure armatures!

There is no doubt the tax office know if a person should declare residency but the question is will they follow it up? The simple answer is ‘if it’s worth there while’.

If you are an aged relative staying with a family on average income paying minimal tax, chances are you are worth very little to the government so there is no real incentive to go after you. If on the other hand your hosts contribute a reasonable amount to the exchequer there is every probability you are worth something and the government will want there share!

[bigears]

hi

I'm with you Dr orloff, don't be too alarmed by the scaremongering.  Mind don't ever give the british taxman any cause to put you in the spotlight  There are some expats here in France taking huge liberties, not just a few days, or weeks over the 6 months and what happens to the majority of them?  I could give examples but I won't just in case these forums are monitored.   I would think that if there is a will both the french and uk authorities could track our bookings and by other means build up quite a picture of our movements.  Mind house useage information via utility bills doesn't prove who was there.  They cannot do this routinely for jo bloggs, they would surely need a very good reason to do that sort of investigation.  Searches for information cost money.  My advice don't give them any reason to do it.  What is wrong with a little bit of ducking and diving, is it as bad as a 'bad driver' who regularly exceeds speed limits?  For my part I can declare that I am totally above board and legal in every way.  Hopefully this will take some pressure of you Dr orloff whilst the 'experts' turn on me, and not for the first time.  Time to do some work renovating our maison secondaire.

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Tony F Dordogne"]

What you say is partially correct, why would anybody want to check on somebody's aged mother?  Until of course, something goes wrong and the EHIC card is invalidated because some bright spark puts two and two together and gets things right.  I can assure you that things like that do happen here, again from experience.

[/quote]That is the rub here.  Just recently (in the UK this time) a huge document has been circulated to NHS trusts, about the importance of establishing the residency of patients in the future.  Even to the extent that they are being asked to appoint a person specifically to deal with this.  In effect, rules are being put in place to ensure that anybody treated in a UK hospital (whatever their nationality) establishes their residency - and that doesn't just mean flashing a British passport or having a UK address - it involves giving clear proof that you actually live there if there is the smallest doubt.

All over Europe, the rules are being tightened up and we know from recent events that the French government is very twitchy about this - not least because of their massive health budget deficit.  They will not now treat legitimate non-national residents any more, unless covered by an E form.

There is no point in arguing with people who don't care to listen, but it seems only fair to answer the o/p's question as far as we can.  Then it is her decision.

Talking of the o/p.... What happened to her, btw?

[Bugsy]

American but relevant......................................Here

and in the UK................................ Here

[dr orloff]

It's nice to have a friend.  My experience of the french state is that is not one big super-efficient, all knowing, harmonious, well-oiled machine. 

The government monitors all movement across french borders?  You don't even have to stop at most of them.

I read a newspaper article about a Limoges university project to establish how many British were living in the Haute Vienne Department of France.  What did they do? - ask the thought police.  No, they scoured a selection of phonebooks for anglicised names and did a bit of extrapolating.  All not very high tech.

I've no doubt that the tracking of certain targeted individuals is quite sophisticated.but unless sara77's mum is the oldest terrorist in town, I shouldn't think it would include her.

I visited my local French tax office a couple of years back.  The address that they had for me was a house that I had sold two years previously.

Look at the Home Office in Britain - they haven't got the foggiest idea how many people are in the country, let alone where they're going on their holidays. 

 

[bigears]

hi

Cooperlola, a good idea but what evidence of residency will the NHS ask for?  A uk tax declaration?  I have never filled out any tax form in my life, but am uk resident.   Are we going to be issued with compulsory residency cards?  Think of the extra burocracy all this will generate.

[Bugsy]

This is funny but relevant........................

When I moved my tax burden from England to France I was asked to provide details of the amount of time I had spent in the UK since my move to France. This I dutifully did by racking my brain (didn't take long [:)]) and scouring my email folders for Aircraft and Ferry bookings.

Two weeks after sending all the information off I received a reply asking if it was me that had travelled on (dates supplied) [:'(]. I'd actually missed one trip in my submission but they had the exact details on their list.

They made light of it as I'd added "to the best of my knowledge" on my submission, but it does go to show that a lot of information is being kept on all of us.

I wonder if wearing a false beard would work.....................[:D][:D]

[bigears]

hi

Why Bugbear, did they not want you here?