Cost of living

[hastobe]

So many people we have spoken to say that they find the cost of living in France to be much lower than in the UK - but we haven't found that at all.  The choice is different - more fresh fruit and veg in France and less 'international' foods - but cost seems pretty much the same, if not more.  We are wondering if what people are noticing is the 'cost benefit' of change in lifestyle - i.e. more time to make / grow your own food. 

What do you think?  Is it cheaper in France and what do you find cheaper and what is more expensive...and what is the one thing you really miss from the UK (or where ever it is you hail from [:)])?

Kathie

[Gardian]

Kathie ............

Cheaper:

• in general, food (particularly meat, veg & fruit - not much else than that though, is there?!)
• fuel (but, generally you have to drive further)
• eating out (£ for £, € for €)
• taxes (all up, for a retiree)
• building work (provided that you can find a good one)
• rail travel

p.s. on food, you spend just as much, because the quality is better, so you spend more on eating the good stuff.

More Expensive:

• insurance, both car (100%+) & buildings (50%+)
• some DIY materials (not all, but the old suspects, like paint)
• clothes (quality stuff, but that sort of gear doesn't bother me now)
• hairdressing 
• banking (but not a big deal)

I really miss ..............

• a pint of bitter from time to time
• access to the mags I used to buy regularly (no comments please!)
• UK traffic and speed cameras every bloody half mile which would pop off and stick you on with a ticket for £40 or so 

 

[PossumGirl]

We do find life here cheaper, but coming from the States, I think there are things that are different than in the UK.

For example, our health insurance was costing us 8000€ per year, and that didn't include dental or optical, neither of which were covered, and we had deductibles and ceilings for prescriptions, etc.

We don't have a mortgage here, which is a major saving.

Insurance is less for us as is food.  We don't go out to eat more than once or twice a month at the most, and since there are no shopping malls in easy distance I don't go out and spend $10 or $20 on things that I really don't need but see and think, "Ooh!  I MUST have that!"

I agree clothing is much more expensive here, and I find anything for the computer and books also much more.

Still, I wonder if some of the savings we see aren't as much to do with living in a rural area as opposed to living in a city.  I know that friends who live in Paris tell me that they do their weekly shopping in Normandy because they save a fortune, and when I tell my  MIL how much I spend on really excellent quality food here, she tells me it's a major bargain in comparison to what she pays.

I also think we paid more for food in L.A. because I went to high end grocery stores because I wanted to get organic/hormone free/antibiotic free foods and the best place for that was specialty stores.

PG

[Bob T]

Ian, I like the bit where you say Fuel (but you have to drive further). That may apply to you but not to everyone. I used to drive 60 miles a day in the UK to get to work, but here I don't. My local supermarket in the UK was 8 miles away, but here it is 8 km.

We have an income here of around 15 % of what we had in the UK, but live a much better life and eat out more oftern than we did. The cost of living is all down to the individuals expectations. If you have to go to the English section in the supermarket, because you cannot live without peanut butter, then it will be expensive, so will you English newspaper. If I lived in the UK then my duck pate and a French newspaper would be much more expensive than it is here.

I spend loads of time building and upgrading computers here and find that I can buy parts and systems for the same in Euros here as I used to spend in pounds in the UK, and I was buying trade in the UK.

As for clothes, I no longer need to wear suits and ties and smart shoes, jeans and T shirt will do. The biggest saving must be the fact that I do not need to buy and alarm clock here as I get up when I want!

[Judith]

It depends on where you are and with what you are comparing it - eg - hairdresser in local town in France 23e - hairdresser in C London - at least £50 - and that's by no means top whack, which I  have to pay in London to get a really good cut.  In the stix of London, probably not as expensive, but still would pay more than France.  We've also found cost of insurance is lower, along with property taxes.  As for food  - depends on what you eat - but I would agree with poster who said amount in pounds is what you pay but in euros in France, thus  generally cheaper.  Books and such seem dearer in France, clothes - depends on what and where you buy, but I've generally found them as good value as London.  Spent most of my life within a strict budget - only spending when needed, though I have always bought good quality food, and made sure we are warm enough.  After that, its all excess to basic living requirements anyway!  However, comparing prices in London with any part of France (with the probable exception of Paris) is like comparing chalk and cheese, which is why all the answers to the original poster will vary as much as the prices do!

[KathyC]

Perhaps I'm the only drinker posting but the lower cost of wine must surely come into this. Unless you spend the same amount as you did in the UK but drink vastly more!

[Logan]

What effects prices more than anything in a market economy is the cost of labour and business competition. The British in general pay themselves a lot more than the French, principally to enable the purchase of accommodation. Therefore most things cost more because of higher salary charges but increasing competition in certain areas does act as a break.

In France there is less competition in most markets except food retailing where it's intense. That produces cheaper and fresher food. Salaries are lower in France; accommodation is cheaper, as is the cost of money. Taxes are almost at the same level taking into account healthcare costs versus council taxes in UK.

In general it's cheaper to live in France because of accommodation costs but much harder to do business or find work.

[hastobe]

Some things are definitely cheaper (property prices, interest rates, wine, eating out, and possibly petrol) but we certainly have not found that the overall day to day shopping basket is much less.  Maybe its because we come from 'up North' where the prices are lower than in London / South East or maybe its because we already grow a lot of our own  fruit and veg and rarely use convenience foods.  Certainly, we find that we spend as much in Leclerc / Carrefour as we would in Morrisons for a week's shopping.

English neighbours of ours in France were extoling the virtues of the low cost of living in France and we were wondering what we were doing wrong - until we sat and thought about it.  Before they came to France they lived in South East England and worked full time in demanding jobs.  Now they are retired, have a large vegetable garden, and have seriously got into the rural French custom of bottling, preserving and generally using the last scrap of everything.

I don't know about salaries / cotisations as we don't work in France - but someone posted a link a while back for a French salary checker and I was very suprised at how low the quoted salaries were.  I'm not sure if these were realistic figures but, if they were, we (both hubby and I) would be seriously worse off  if we came to France to work.

Maybe this impression of France as being cheap and offering a wonderful standard of living is a result of seeing too many glossy stories in the magazines / on the TV.... ? Other than being able to buy property at prices which are significantly below those in the UK prices - and so (when we retire) be able to release equity, the cheap and economical France hasn't been our experience.

Kathie

ps the one thing I miss not being able to buy in France is 'proper' cream [:)]

[Bob T]

KathyC, I know just how you feel, the bottle of wine per week in the UK has turned into 3 or 4 bottles here, but I probably drink less beer and less fruit juice here so it evens out. They say that red wine is good for you anyway, I assume that we will live for a very ling time here. Better go and open another bottle - that will be yet another year on my life expectancy, hic

[SaligoBay]

[quote user="Logan"]

In general it's cheaper to live in France because of accommodation costs but much harder to do business or find work.

[/quote]

Cheap property?  

[IMG]http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l69/SaligoBay/2006_0407FirstPics0013.jpg[/IMG]

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="SaligoBay"][quote user="Logan"]

In general it's cheaper to live in France because of accommodation costs but much harder to do business or find work.

[/quote]

Cheap property?  

[/quote]

Doesn't look like much of a place for that kind of money...nice part of town??

[SaligoBay]

[quote user="Jon D"][quote user="SaligoBay"][quote user="Logan"]

In general it's cheaper to live in France because of accommodation costs but much harder to do business or find work.

[/quote]

Cheap property?  

[/quote]

Doesn't look like much of a place for that kind of money...nice part of town??


[/quote]

LOL, if Lunel has a nice part!   I don't live there, btw, but I do go there for my Arabic lessons.   Actually, I do like Lunel a lot, it has a certain je ne sais quoi.   It also has a sizeable North African population.   It also has a wee bit of crime.   But it has a very nice shiny new car park, and it has France's oldest synagogue.   I think.  And some other ancient artefacts like that, although it has to be said they're not exactly obvious, and you have to want to find them.    Halal butchers.   Couple of book shops.   Old-fashioned department store that looks older than Grace Brothers, quite a few nice boutiques, and lots of lovely little shops with cheap Araby tack, and I like that too.   A few cafés where you can watch yoofs getting arrested, that's entertaining.  It even has a big market, with plenty of polyester dresses, pricey trainers, 5-euro jewellery, and Provençal tourist stuff.

Good place.  No pretensions, or at least not the bits I go to.   But in an extremely expensive area, pretty much midway between Montpellier and Nimes, easy for commuters.

I suspect it was a little bit overpriced, but not exceptionally so.    

  

 

[Lillythepink<STRONG><EM>Lillythepink<EM><STRONG>]

OK, I would like to ask the 64milliondollar question.  Is it possible to live on £9,500 a year, everything except a mortgage; so bills, food, petrol, car insurance etc etc - all the usual, average 4 bed house with an acre???  Now theres a question - interested to hear your comments.

Thank you

[Logan]

[quote user="Lillythepink"]

OK, I would like to ask the 64milliondollar question.  Is it possible to live on £9,500 a year, everything except a mortgage; so bills, food, petrol, car insurance etc etc - all the usual, average 4 bed house with an acre???  Now theres a question - interested to hear your comments.

Thank you

[/quote]

Yes if you live a simple quiet life.

SB: I thought that property cheap, think I will ring for a visit. Thanks. 

[Tresco]

Hi Lily

How many people will the money need to support?

[Unknown]

And where would the house be?

[Russethouse]

And which region, ?

Whoops Dotty - didn't see your post

[Lillythepink<STRONG><EM>Lillythepink<EM><STRONG>]

Sorry folks, I know it varies greatly doesn't it depending on the region.  Not got a specific department in mind but favouring the western side of the centre/or west just-off-coast area - so pays-de-la-loire/poitou-charentes, in and around those borders.  There are only us 2 but also have 2 dogs.  We know that the clothes and a few things are expensive so we would be visitng home once a year to stock up on clothes, dog food, get haircuts and probably have a good thai meal! 

We live quite a simple life now, dont go out much, but enjoy having people over for dinner and drinks and games in the garden in the summer.  We grow a lot of our own veg and some fruit already and would like to grow more, we are dying to keep our own chickens and we preserve stuff and I make chutney and jams etc (most of the ingredients we get free from foraging in the local woods!). We have also just started making our own wine. We currently live in semi-rural Lincolnshire.

So, what do you think?! I would be most grateful to hear what you think you need to live on as this is the only thing stopping us from taking the plunge, taking a risk is great but we don't want to have to come back because we can't afford to live! Pensions would be £9,500 increases approx 2/3% every year and it will increase by another £100 week in 12 years.

Thank you so much

 

[Tresco]

I think that's do-able.[:D]

BUT will you have a lump sum too?  You're going to need something for when the big bills come in, in a few years time - new car, new roof etc etc.

Also, I'm soooo glad I bought a dinky house. It limits how many people can come to stay, which is both a good and a bad thing, but the running costs are low. Have a think about that.

[Tresco]

double post deleted

[Logan]

[quote user="Lillythepink"]

Sorry folks, I know it varies greatly doesn't it depending on the region.  Not got a specific department in mind but favouring the western side of the centre/or west just-off-coast area - so pays-de-la-loire/poitou-charentes, in and around those borders.  There are only us 2 but also have 2 dogs.  We know that the clothes and a few things are expensive so we would be visitng home once a year to stock up on clothes, dog food, get haircuts and probably have a good thai meal! 

We live quite a simple life now, dont go out much, but enjoy having people over for dinner and drinks and games in the garden in the summer.  We grow a lot of our own veg and some fruit already and would like to grow more, we are dying to keep our own chickens and we preserve stuff and I make chutney and jams etc (most of the ingredients we get free from foraging in the local woods!). We have also just started making our own wine. We currently live in semi-rural Lincolnshire.

So, what do you think?! I would be most grateful to hear what you think you need to live on as this is the only thing stopping us from taking the plunge, taking a risk is great but we don't want to have to come back because we can't afford to live! Pensions would be £9,500 increases approx 2/3% every year and it will increase by another £100 week in 12 years.

Thank you so much

[/quote]

Your post almost describes life in rural France, not the UK but I guess Linconshire is still another country! The income you describe for the lifestyle you enjoy will be perfectly adequate in France. Property in the areas preferred is relatively inexpensive at the moment. Overheads will also be lower in rural areas than those previously mentioned by Saligo Bay. Remember to budget for top up healthcare costs of around £1000 a year depending on your age. Heating also is a similar cost depending on your choice of fuel.

[PossumGirl]

Tresco, you make a really good point about the operating costs of a house.  I see people getting swayed all the time by the huge house they can afford to buy here.  Once they're in and start adding up the costs for the renovation and keeping it heated, etc., they start to look enviously at our more reasonable-sized house, which still isn't tiny, just a decent size for two adults who work at home and don't have constant visitors.

There are some houses I've visited that I'm grateful I didn't see before we bought ours, because I know that the "fever" would have come over me, and then I would have been sorry.

BTW, all my village friends who have inherited these types of huge  houses from their families find they live on one floor and have the rest shut up or just used for storage.

PG

[Bob T]

I live on less than that. There are also tow of us but with no dogs, two 1100cc motorbikes instead. Take no notice of house renovations as that only applies if you buy a house to renovate - not everyone does. We have a 3 bedroomed house and our wood heating is miles cheaper than hte UK was. Our council tax on a tiny bungalow in the UK was £1100 per year two years ago and the taxes here were €400 yesterday. We eat out and travel oftern and also live in the Dordogne, not the expensive bit full of Brits near Sarlat but a little further north.

People here are not as materialistic as those in the UK.

See my blog and you will know how well I live.

Bob

[hastobe]

We're not too far from you Bob - between Toutoirac and Cubjac.

Kathie

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="SaligoBay"][quote user="Jon D"][quote user="SaligoBay"][quote user="Logan"]

In general it's cheaper to live in France because of accommodation costs but much harder to do business or find work.

[/quote]

Cheap property?  

[/quote]

Doesn't look like much of a place for that kind of money...nice part of town??

[/quote]

LOL, if Lunel has a nice part!   I don't live there, btw,

but I do go there for my Arabic lessons.   Actually, I do

like Lunel a lot, it has a certain je ne sais quoi.   It also

has a sizeable North African population.   It also has a wee

bit of crime.   But it has a very nice shiny new car park,

and it has France's oldest synagogue.   I think.  And

some other ancient artefacts like that, although it has to be said

they're not exactly obvious, and you have to want to find

them.    Halal butchers.   Couple of book

shops.   Old-fashioned department store that looks older than

Grace Brothers, quite a few nice boutiques, and lots of

lovely little shops with cheap Araby tack, and I like that

too.   A few cafés where you can watch yoofs getting

arrested, that's entertaining.  It even has a big market, with

plenty of polyester dresses, pricey trainers, 5-euro jewellery, and

Provençal tourist stuff.

Good place.  No pretensions, or at least not the bits I go

to.   But in an extremely expensive area, pretty much

midway between Montpellier and Nimes, easy for commuters.

I suspect it was a little bit overpriced, but not exceptionally so.     

[/quote]

Sounds all right, bit like the Edgeware road really, but only for a visit as I have sworn on a stack of bibles this

high that I will never move house again. I did not settle anywhere for

15 years and I am not in a hurry to break that particular oath.