Carte de sejour appointment - keep or cancel?

[Cathar Tours]

I have to admit that "alittlebitfrench" said about not bothering turns out to be correct, don't bother getting one. Like many I thought he was talking out of his bottom but if you read the link which I give again it turns out he is right, the CDS will be worth nothing British Expats.

It will be replaced by an EU standard permit just for Brits.

https://brexit.gouv.fr/sites/brexit/accueil.html

That link has further links which might be of interest.

https://www.interieur.gouv.fr/Actualites/Le-ministere-de-l-Interieur-se-prepare-au-Brexit/Sejour

[alittlebitfrench]

I think I am right in every post I have made !!!

- Don't get a CDS just now !!!

- Sort out your UK based income.

- Find a legal structure if you are working in France for a UK based company.

If the OP wants to throw their toys out the pram that is fine. But, from I have read today the OP's OH is working illegally. Is that not what we predicted at the start before knowing all the details ?

So on that basis, I/we were right again.

They got free advice which has saved them a lot of money had they gone to see some professionals.

Next customer please. LOL

[BritinBretagne]

That’s why I wrote what I wrote and I was replying to the OP not commenting on anything that you had posted. However I’ve known several people who have started as AE/ME as nothing more than a way into the healthcare system. It’s also worth pointing out that for many people ME is not a good option even though it’s often the British way..

[BritinBretagne]

[quote user="Cathar Tours"]I have to admit that "alittlebitfrench" said about not bothering turns out to be correct, don't bother getting one. Like many I thought he was talking out of his bottom but if you read the link which I give again it turns out he is right, the CDS will be worth nothing British Expats.

It will be replaced by an EU standard permit just for Brits.

That’s not quite right. As was always expected any British citizen who holds a CdS will be able to exchange for the new card so hardly ‘worth nothing’.

https://brexit.gouv.fr/sites/brexit/accueil.html

That link has further links which might be of interest.

https://www.interieur.gouv.fr/Actualites/Le-ministere-de-l-Interieur-se-prepare-au-Brexit/Sejour[/quote]

[EuroTrash]

I'm very much hoping a CDS will be turn out to be exchangeable with no further questions asked, because it looks like I'll be going to go back to live and work in the UK for a couple of years starting in the new year, absolutely dreadful timing I know, I couldn't have timed it worse if I tried. I'm hoping that if I can get a cds before I leave, then I will have the option of coming back as long as I'm not away for too long. In theory I do have this entitlement I think, but I'm not optimistic. Do they even issue long term cartes de séjour for a first application, or do you always get issued a one-year CDS first?

[alittlebitfrench]

I have never heard of a one years CDS ???

Your case is different ET...and I would simply go to the prefecture and ask what is the best route. You own a house and paid into the system for years.

In terms of the OP, they should have waited until Brexit is sorted before moving.

I don't think the UK will leave the EU, but if it does it looks like it will be a 'no deal'. I think though in either case, the leave date will be extended.

If a no deal happens, it is going to get messy. So messing about with French employment contracts is not something I would advise.

I worried about my driving license. Theoretically, I can't drive after 31st of March. Who is going to take the kids to school ?

[EuroTrash]

ALBF, I thought that if you haven't been here for 5 years you are normally issued with a 1-year CDS to start with and you have to go along to renew it each year and prove that you still meet your residency conditions. Then after 5 years residence, you should be entitled to be issued with a "permanent" cds although I'm not sure it is actually permanent, I think it still expires after 5 or 10 years and has to be renewed. But I'm hazy on the details and in any case different prefectures seem to do things differently.

The point is that the OP would likely have been unable to move here and carry on working after Brexit because Brits will likely no longer have freedom of movement to come and work or set up a business in France. Just like US/Aus/Indian/etc citizens can't come here and set up a micro entreprise, or take a job that an EU citizen could do. Early retirees and retirees with money to support themselves will still be OK, it is the workers whose options are being closed by losing freedom of movement. Which is why "messing around with French employment contracts" is exactly what I would advise because I think being here on a French employment contract is going to be the gold standard. France far prefers employees to self employed. And any kind of S1 status seems likely to be dodgiest of all. So a French contract and full cotisations paid to URSSAF is clearly the way to go IMHO, if you are already here as an employee I think it will be status quo and nothing to worry about. Just so long as there is nothing specific about your job that needs French qualifications or authorisation like being a doctor or lawyer or something., or French citizenship like being a fonctionnaire, but I think France is ready to act quickly to pass legislation to deal with that if necessary.

Yes the driving licence could be a PITA.

[EuroTrash]

PS I am not so sure the leave date will be extended if it is no deal. The EU is ready, it already has its plans in place, and it wants done with Brexit. It would see no advantage in a delay if there is no deal, and it's not obliged to agree to one.

[nomoss]

[quote user="alittlebitfrench"]I think I am right in every post I have made !!!

- Don't get a CDS just now !!!

- Sort out your UK based income.

- Find a legal structure if you are working in France for a UK based company.

If the OP wants to throw their toys out the pram that is fine. But, from I have read today the OP's OH is working illegally. Is that not what we predicted at the start before knowing all the details ?

So on that basis, I/we were right again.

They got free advice which has saved them a lot of money had they gone to see some professionals.

Next customer please. LOL[/quote]

It's amazing what you can pick up sitting at home watching Red Dwarf [:D]

[Cathar Tours]

"That’s not quite right. As was always expected any British citizen who holds a CdS will be able to exchange for the new card so hardly ‘worth nothing’. "

Well if there is no deal your CdS becomes invalid at the end of 2019 if there is a deal by the end of 2022.

If you read the requirements for the new EU card most are the same but there are some differences in certain situations therefore you effectively apply for the new card. There is absolutely nothing to say you just swap it. The reason possibly for this is whatever the time period of the card. Say it is 10 years and you have used 5 on your CdS then you don't get the CdS swapped for 5 years worth of residency on the EU card, your get a new 10 year card so therefore your have to prove you meet the standards currently for said card.

If there is no deal for instance you will lose your S1 so you will have to prove you have private insurance is the most obvious I can think of as an example.

Bit like an MOT. You have it done today and tomorrow the wheels fall off the car it does not mean the car was dodgy when it was tested but things change.

By the way this new EU card is for expats in every EU country not just France and the requirements are set by the EU and not France or any other country individually although obviously the council of ministers had to approve the system.

[alittlebitfrench]

@ ET...my first and second cards were 5 years in duration ??? Maybe it has changed.

A UK business (that you own) then employing yourself in France to work for it ??? I can't get my head around that one.

With Brexit and the civil war breaking out in France....bit of a gamble. Can you sack yourself and move back ? LOL

I have just been reading up on all this on the local prefecture website....and I am.....none the wiser. Looks like 10 years to me ???

A CDS will become redundant in March with a no deal. So I still can't see the point of getting one. But you all can convince me.

Nomoss.....smeg off LOL.

What is an EU card ?

There is no advice for me who is married with kids. I don't want nationality.

What a mess.

This is interesting.....https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/18/brexit-thousands-ski-resort-jobs-at-risk

They are already laying people off !!!

[EuroTrash]

CT, where have you seen that it is a new EU card for expats in every EU country? Has anyone told France this? Because from the minutes of the Assemblée Nationale's discussion on Brexit preparations a couple of weeks ago, France seemed to be intending to make its own decisions on what procedures and timescale to adopt. From what I recall, it did say or at least suggest that Brits who currently hold CDSs will be able to exchange them.

The point is, that anyone who has already lived in France for 5 years, has in theory already acquired permanent residence rights. So for instance, if as an inactif if you've lived in France for 6 years with an income above the minimum threshold, and then for instance your tenant leaves and you don't find another and your income is below the threshold, it changes nothing because after 5 years you no longer have to meet any conditions. I would be surprised if there is a decision to retrospectively remove a right that has already been "earned".

(With respect, the S1 is a poor example because it's not a condition for legal residence. With or without an S1, you need to meet the minimum income level, Provided you do that, then if you lose your S1 you can join the French healthcare system. You will not need private insurance. So I cannot for the life of me understand why there is so much panic over S1s. OK, if it goes then people will have to pay a small contribution towards their healthcare... just like everyone else in France.)

[EuroTrash]

@ALBF/

A UK business (that you own) then employing yourself in France to work for it ??? I can't get my head around that one."

The point is that you are employed by a company. It doesn't matter that it's a UK business and it doesn't matter that you own it. Once you're registered with URSSAF as a French-based employee, to them you are the same as any other employee in France employed by non French business. There are employees here employed on the same basis by US companies, Chinese companies, etc etc etc. Brexit will make no difference.

A CDS will become redundant in March with a no deal. So I still can't see the point of getting one. But you all can convince me.

No, in March with no deal a carte de séjour will become obligatory rather than optional. Yes, it will look a bit different from the one you get now, but the paperwork you have to provide to get it will be basically the same. So they may be merciful and decide that those who have already proved their right to permanently reside by photocopying vast quantities of documents in order to get the old CDS, don't have to do so again but can simply show their old CDS. After all that is basically the point of a CDS, it doesn't give you any new rights as such, it is simply confirmation of the rights that you have, and arguably, a permanent right is a permanent right. Cathar Tours says they won't do this. I don't know and AFAIK the details haven't been decided yet so nobody does.

ALBF, you are the spouse of a French national so you don't have to worry about any of this.

[Cathar Tours]

I have seen the new EU residency card on one of the German websites (just google German residency permits). It's not that different really to the one my father has in France. What they do say is it is attached, physically (looks like s stud or something), to your passport. In the old days it used to be stamped into your passport. Of course another option for those that are working in the EU is a Blue Card if you have a very specialised skill set which you get via your employer.

[BritinBretagne]

I suggest you read the recent publication issued by the French Interior Ministry as that explains that current CdS (EU) cards will be exchanged for the new format. Germany might well be different but this is a site for people in France. You can lead a horse to water...

[BritinBretagne]

https://mobile.interieur.gouv.fr/Actualites/Le-ministere-de-l-Interieur-se-prepare-au-Brexit/Sejour?fbclid=IwAR2xEeabxqzLVpKQyAHLzq6IG7hCTWtbmHZ6txKlTTZOmorsjEx5lbQrN6c

[Cathar Tours]

Swap the words French for German and it's the same. The first line says it all with regards to it being referred to by many as a EU residency permit in that it is specifically mentioned in the withdrawal agreement. It is different because it limits your freedom of movement within the EU to three months. The only difference between the cards is they will be written in the language of the country in which it was issued and in which your allowed to live. Other than that they will all look identical.

Like the German version there is no mention of "hand in your old one and we will give you a replacement without having to reapply", you will have to meet the criteria at the time of applying. So those that got a CdS on that basis have wasted their time.

For the OP the bit that is of interest is on page 2. In some countries you need to be able to do a job that's on a list of skill sets. If your skill set is not on the list you can't get a work permit. If your a builder then forget it, if you say you are a stone mason specialising in restoration your in because there aren't that many around.

[EuroTrash]

Could you be more specific on your links please CT?

"Like the German version" - what versions of what are you referring to exxactly?

"the bit that is of interest is on page 2" - page 2 of what, please? And obviously, the skill sets are going to be different country by country. I wasn't aware that France is short of masons, there are plenty round here...

What France actually says is:

"Les titres de séjour obtenus avant mars 2019 seront-ils toujours valables après l’échéance de mars ?

En cas d’accord de retrait entrant en vigueur:

Les titres UE obtenus avant mars 2019 (dont la possession n'est pas obligatoire) continueront à être valables durant la période de transition qui court jusqu'au 31 décembre 2020. Ils devront être remplacés en revanche au-delà de cette période par le nouveau titre prévu par l'accord. Les demandes de titre pourront être déposées selon un calendrier qui sera précisé ultérieurement et en tout état de cause au moins jusqu'en juillet 2021

En cas d’absence d’accord de retrait:

Les titres de séjour obtenus avant le 30 mars 2019 devront être échangés selon un calendrier qui sera précisé ultérieurement.

This is from the French government's own website

https://www.interieur.gouv.fr/Actualites/Le-ministere-de-l-Interieur-se-prepare-au-Brexit/Sejour

Please note the last sentence and especially the use of the word "échangés".

[Cathar Tours]

I was refering to the link preceding the post of mine to which you refer in your post by BritinBretagne

Now his one is also an official French government website and his one has two pages. The second page refers to work permits.

I think your reading what you want to. You have to exchange one for the other but nowhere does it say you do or you don't have to submit the required information as if it were the first time your applying.

Seeing as the requirement for the new EU residency card and the French CDS (and the German version come to that) are exactly the same why bother doing it twice in such a short period of time.

As page two says the OP does not require a work permit to work in France and currently will not require a CDS. At the end of said period depending on deal or no deal they still won't need a work permit just a residency card.

[crabtree]

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-18-6851_en.htm?fbclid=IwAR1Rm-ftfzNJuty8vSZGhZr9i1rgy8mFjWaO9DmWZ_XfewQ9YcpDFo49yd4

[Cathar Tours]

Well according to one well known UK newspaper that never exaggerates or knowingly tells lies Junker, as part of no deal preparations, has said that if you have been in the EU less than 5 years your be thrown out anyway.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6511681/EU-threatens-curb-British-flights-bitter-standoff-intensifies.html

(Down near the bottom)

[BritinBretagne]

[quote user="Cathar Tours"]Swap the words French for German and it's the same. The first line says it all with regards to it being referred to by many as a EU residency permit in that it is specifically mentioned in the withdrawal agreement. It is different because it limits your freedom of movement within the EU to three months. The only difference between the cards is they will be written in the language of the country in which it was issued and in which your allowed to live. Other than that they will all look identical.

Like the German version there is no mention of "hand in your old one and we will give you a replacement without having to reapply", you will have to meet the criteria at the time of applying. So those that got a CdS on that basis have wasted their time.

For the OP the bit that is of interest is on page 2. In some countries you need to be able to do a job that's on a list of skill sets. If your skill set is not on the list you can't get a work permit. If your a builder then forget it, if you say you are a stone mason specialising in restoration your in because there aren't that many around.[/quote]

If your interpretation/translation of the advice is correct why are many prefectures going to such trouble to ensure that they can provide as many CdS (UE) cards as soon as possible? Surely they would say just said wait for the new card to arrive and apply then. To me exchanged means exchanged.

[Cathar Tours]

Well the next 12 to 24 months will prove one of us right and one of us wrong. So if it proves your right and I am wrong I apologise in advance so nobody will have to say I told you so.

[Kong]

Why does everyone write 'your' when they mean 'you're'?

[nomoss]

[quote user="Kong"]Why does everyone write 'your' when they mean 'you're'?[/quote]

Either because they don't know any better, because they didn't pay attention or didn't stay in school long enough, or because they subscribe to the idea that apostrophes are redundant, in spite of the fact that they make text more coherent.[:D]