Compulsory registration of gite / holiday rental

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Polly"]Governments are not duty bound to notify each and every citizen of every law that is passed!
[/quote]I agree with you Polly, but it's amazing how many people expect to be spoon fed.  They are also often the people who moaned about the fact that government info' in the UK was provided in several languages.[8-)]

[Roro]

[quote user="Polly"]Araucaria, I have just had the formal receipt from my own Mairie for one of the forms.

[/quote]

Aaah Polly that is interesting, and is what I was curious to find out about. I wonder if you will have any complications following that. In fact I took my form into the Marie today and after some umming and ahing they gave me the formal receipt but on the understanding that I would bring in my classification when it had gone through. I was able to show them the forms filled in and ready to go to the prefecture. It was clear that they do want the notification of classification but being a small commune they know where I live and can chase me up. 

 

 

[Polly]

Well Roro (Mrs Araucaria?) I repeat that as the law stands there is no legal obligation to obtain a classification of  your holiday accommodation.

Here's another site for you to peruse http://www.a-gites.com/classement-label.php, it's not a government site but you might find it interesting.

As we all know, different officials interpret rules in different ways, and we have to live with that. In my experience the staff in very small communes are often, understandably, not too clued up about everything. I really don't think you're going to get any sort of legal hassle if you don't go down the classification road, but, on the other hand, if you do you might reap some financial rewards depending on your personal and business tax situation. And you'll keep your Mairie happy.

[Russethouse]

Auricaria & Roro, There is a thread about this over on Lay my hat, a specialist forum for those involved in the accomodation business.

 Why not ask there and see what others are doing?

http://www.laymyhat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11793&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

[Jazzer]

Where did you get classification/inspection forms from?

Are the authorities flexible as to the date of inspection?

I would imagine at this time of year it would be difficult to arrange with the gites occupied.

[Clair]

How I got the préfecture to give me a rating: thread

[Araucaria]

I am now very puzzled. And this boringly long post is about as close as I am likely to get to making an apology for unintentionally misleading people.

I can't find any provision of French law which says explicitly that gite owners must both register and get an official classification (though my knowledge of French law could be written on a postcard). Neither can Polly, which probably means that there is no such provision, but we all agree that registration is required.

The registration form requires you to sign this declaration:

Le soussigne declare que l'habitation est en conformite avec les dispositions des articles D. 324-1 et suivants du code du tourisme.

On another website I came across what was described as a link to the code du tourisme. It was this link here.

The sections D.324-2 of that code du tourisme onwards are a comprehensive set of provisions for the classification of gites. And I thought that a declaration that your gite conformed with these lengthy provisions could only mean that you had to get your gite classified. Suppose, for example, I asked everyone who I took as a passenger in my H-van to sign a declaration to the effect that, while they were seated in it, they would act in full conformity with the law on wearing seatbelts. They'd assume (a) that I was really very paranoid, and (b) that I wanted them to wear a seatbelt because that's what the law says. If they discovered (as they soon would) that my H-van isn't fitted with seatbelts, they would think I was simply a lunatic. That's to say, people can't sensibly be asked to declare that they will comply with a law that doesn't apply to them.

I would be really interested to hear from anyone who can tell me what that purported code du tourisme actually is (I can see it is has been published in this form by Allier Tourisme). I should have tried to find a more official source. It's not as if I usually believe everything I read on a website, so this really was stupid of me.

When I looked on the government website for the full text of articles D.324-1 onwards of the code du tourisme, I found only three brief sentences in the current code (link here), valid as at mid-May, and these simply said that you had to register and that (324-1 itself) the state would "détermine et met en oeuvre les procédures de classement des meublés de

tourisme selon des modalités fixées par décret".

However, the version of the code that will be in force in a couple of months (from 24 July 2010) contains the provisions that Polly has already quoted, and it expands considerably on the classification of gites, but still to a smaller extent than those (spurious?) code sections as published by Allier Tourisme.

But when I look at it, in my view section D324-1 of the code will shortly be about nothing else but the classification of gites. I can see quite clearly that a key part of the wording is permissive ("if the owner wishes to get a classification...."). But that doesn't detract from what the section is exclusively dealing with - the gite owner getting his/her gites classified ("s'il souhaite", yes).

So the upshot is this: I really would like to know what the declaration on the registration form could possibly mean. That's to say, what on earth is the point of formally declaring that your gite complies with provisions that are entirely optional?

After wracking what few brains I have left, I came up with two possible answers

One was that it might be there to discourage you from fraudulently declaring that your gite had an official classification when it hadn't. But isn't that rather a roundabout way of going about it?

The other was that just possibly the next sentence - "L'établissement est classé par l'autorité administrative dans une

catégorie en fonction de critères fixés par un tableau de classement

élaboré par l'organisme mentionné à l'article

L. 141-2 et homologué par arrêté du ministre chargé du tourisme" - meant that your gite will be classified by the department anyway (the word "est" is not permissive, is it?), so that the next sentence could set out a way ("s'il souhaite") the owner could forestall the unilateral classification by getting one for himself (or perhaps using a classification he already has) from an organisation of his choice, provided it is an organisation that is approved by the department. Which is more or less where we came in.

Perhaps it's time for me to get my coat .......

[Théière]

Well done Araucaria and Polly.

So at the moment you don't have to register unless you want a classification, maybe [:)]

[Polly]

You DO have to fill in the compulsory registration form. Please note that if you modify the accommodation (eg adding bedrooms) or if the property changes hands the Mairie must be told.

A list of all the registered properties will be kept at every Mairie, and will be available for inspection by every Tom, Dick, Jean-Paul & Henri.

The departmental tourist bods will be able to use to compile statistics.

And I personally have no doubt that some tax inspectors might find the lists make interesting bedtime reading.

You do not have to get your accommodation classified.

I'm saying no more on the subject!

[Théière]

I love synopsis [:)]

Thanks Polly [kiss][kiss]

[Jazzer]

I am inclined to agree that inspection/classification is not compulsory.However, as with many things in France, not everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet. A friend of mine went to his mairie with the forms I had downloaded for him off the net. They produced a different version, completed the receipt, told him he would have to take tax de sejour and off he went. At another mairie,(both in the same department) they are insisting on inspection!

[EmilyA]

Nothing said about inspection at our Mairie either and the secretary there is very well informed and has a gite herself. My totally uninformed guess is that they will collect all our forms together centrally, then issue another long form to fill in with more details, then get round to inspection and classification at some point in the future. From a purely practical point of view I can't see how all gites could possibly be inspected and classified in such a short time frame, even if the arrangements were clear, documented and communicated in advance to all concerned parties.

[cjrm1]

Can I ask a question about how to complete the form.

We have three self contained appartments on the top floor of our house that we will register.

Do you need to register each appartment on a separate form or give the total number of rooms and people to be accomodated in the three appartments on the same form?

Thanks

[Clair]

[quote user="cjrm1"]Can I ask a question about how to complete the form.

We have three self contained appartments on the top floor of our house that we will register.

Do you need to register each appartment on a separate form or give the total number of rooms and people to be accomodated in the three appartments on the same form?

Thanks[/quote]

Three self-contained units = three declarations.

[cjrm1]

Many thanks Claire for your prompt response

[gone-fishin]

In case EmilyA's post from last May should prompt confusion a reminder ............ when referring to

DECLARATION EN MAIRIE DES MEUBLES DE TOURISME This link states the law it is not optional and has nothing to do with classification at the prefecture (which is still optional at the moment).

The responsibility is with the accommodation owner to be aware you certainly will not be informed by the Mairie as some are not up to speed. This is the French way of doing things...end of story. click the pdf file within this link and fill it in take it to the Marie and do not leave the building without a receipt of the said form or they will give you the certificate showing the Marie "stamp".

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/R14321.xhtml

[Jazzer]

Met a gite owner this afternoon who said these forms need to be submitted annually. Is this true?

[Clair]

Not that I am aware.

[Jazzer]

Thanks for your reply. I believe it is only necessary if you change ownership, your season or perhaps the size of the accommodation.But as things change so quickly it's better to see if we are all doing the same thing.

[Claude]

Roro said "It is up to us gite owners to decide if the effort of complying with the regulations is worth the 71% abatement or whether life is too short and just pay the 50% . On the other hand it does still seem to me that in order to sign the registration with the Mairie, without lying through your teeth, one has to get classified by the prefecture.Has anyone done it?"

I have registered with the Mairie and I'm not classified/inspected by anyone. This year the taxman told me if you are of retirement age you automatically get the 71% abatement.