Latest Healthcare Entitlement Info

[Cat]

Please use this thread to post hard facts, the latest news, useful links etc to.  For general discussion, questions and the like, please join or start another thread. 

Let's try to keep this thread as clear and easy to follow as possible.

[Cat]

Following on from this information that I posted in a couple of other threads in this section...

[quote user="Cat"]

I don't know if anyone has already posted this link http://timescorrespondents.typepad.com/charles_bremner/2007/09/france-cuts-bri.html

But in it the journalist says that ...

The change was well known, but it appears that some regional authorities may be acting with Sarkozy-style rigour and cancelling Cartes Vitales (the entitlement card) held by Britons already in the French system. The Paris Social Security ministry tells us that this is impossible since the change applies only to new applicants.

 

[/quote]

I emailed the journalist, Charles Bremner, to ask if he could verify the source of his information, and he has very kindly replied. 

The information was a quote from Mathilde Maufras,  spokeswoman for the Caisse Nationale d'Assurance Maladie. He called her on Monday when checking the Sunday Times story.

Maufras told him: "Les personnes inactives qui arrivent en France ne peuvent plus prétendre à la CMU de base et sont appelés à souscrire une assurance auprès de prestataires privés. Cela ne concerne pas, jusqu'à nouvel ordre, les personnes qui beneficient actuellement de la CMU." 
 
He fears that that the key words there may be jusqu'à nouvel ordre.  If you'd like to discuss the implications behind this, please do so, but not on this thread.

I'd like to publicly thank Charles for taking the time to reply to my email.

[ams]

Could some kind person translate the above message.

 

many thanks in advance.

[cooperlola]

In effect, AMS : "Those people arriving in France will no longer be allowed to subscribe to the CMU de base and are being asked to take out their own private health insurance.  It does not concern, until we know differently, those who currently benefit from the CMU."  Well that's the gist, anyway.

Clair or another real virtual French person will put me right on the details.

Edited following Clair's post below.

[Clair]

[quote user="Cat"]The information was a quote from Mathilde Maufras,  spokeswoman for the Caisse Nationale d'Assurance Maladie. He called her on Monday when checking the Sunday Times story.

Maufras told him: "Les personnes inactives qui arrivent en France ne peuvent plus prétendre à la CMU de base et sont appelés à souscrire une assurance auprès de prestataires privés. Cela ne concerne pas, jusqu'à nouvel ordre, les personnes qui beneficient actuellement de la CMU." 

 

He fears that that the key words there may be jusqu'à nouvel ordre.  If you'd like to discuss the implications behind this, please do so, but not on this thread.

I'd like to publicly thank Charles for taking the time to reply to my email.

[/quote]

Inactive persons who arrive in France can no longer have access to the CMU and must susbscribe to private insurance. For the time being/until further notice, this does not affect the people

who currently benefit from the CMU.

[Clair]

Jusqu' à nouvel ordre simply means until we hear differently.

[FionaV]

I've just spoken to CPAMs English speaking telephone centre, 0820 904 212.

All health cover for those not covered by E106 or E121 will be rovoked on 30th September for those who are not working.

This is based on "working" and not income. Gite and Chambre d'hote income is not classed as "working"

The mutuelle will be offering private health insurance apparently.

[makfai]

If this is the post for the hard facts could anyone who has them please post up the reference to the 'court case' this is supposed to be based on and the decree subsequent to that which has changed the previous legislation?

[cooperlola]

http://www.connexionfrance.com/expatriate-news-article.php?art=35

Confirms Fiona's info - above. 

[makfai]

Factual Info Alert

I did email The British Embassy Paris on 7 September and received this

Hello

Thank you for contacting the Public Enquiries section of the British Embassy, Paris. Please see the website of the

Departement of health:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


DWP Overseas Medical Benefits line

tel: (+44 191 218 1999) (Monday to Friday 8am-8pm)

International Pension Centre
Department for Work and Pensions
Room TC001
Tyneview Park
Whitley Road
Newcastle upon Tyne NE98 1BA

http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Policyandguidance/Healthadvicefortravellers/DH_4115402



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


English language service of France's CPAM

tel: +33 8 20 90 42 12



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Please do not hesitate to contact me if you need any further information.

Kind Regards,

***** *****

Information assistant
Press and Communications
British Embassy
35 Rue du Faubourg Saint Honoré
75008,
Paris.
Tel: 01 44 51 32 81.
Fax: 01 44 51 32 34

I have just replied quoting the link to the 'connexionfrance' info and asked for her comments on the article.
http://www.connexionfrance.com/expatriate-news-article.php?art=35

Post edited by Russethouse

[makfai]

HARD FACT ALERT

 

Just received this news [:D]

Dear Mr .........

For info, reassurance from the Health Ministry that the tightening of rules on healthcare provision will not be retrospective, so early retiree Brits already residing in France will be unaffected - they can continue to access healthcare.

But the rules are different for newcomers - they will need medical cover pre-arrival (eg through the E106 form or if they don't qualify, then private insurance) and to cover any gap between the expiry of their E106 form and the time they turn retirement age.

Full details communicated to DH/DWP/FCO below.

---

DWP Overseas Medical Benefits line

tel: (+44 191 218 1999) (Monday to Friday 8am-8pm)

International Pension Centre
Department for Work and Pensions
Room TC001
Tyneview Park
Whitley Road
Newcastle upon Tyne NE98 1BA

http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Policyandguidance/Healthadvicefortravellers/DH_4115402

---

I hope this helps, please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any further questions.

Kind Regards

***** ****** 
Information assistant
Press and Communications
British Embassy
35 Rue du Faubourg Saint Honoré
75008,
Paris.
Tel: 01 44 51 32 81.
 Fax: 01 44 51 32 34

Post edited by Russethouse

[Russethouse]

For info, reassurance from the Health Ministry that the tightening of rules on healthcare provision will not be retrospective, so early retiree Brits already residing in France will be unaffected - they can continue to access healthcare.

So is this going to include those who are resident but still on E106's ?

I guess this could be why people are being asked to prove residency.........

 

[Glyn]

Russethouse

I think that is still the big question. I have seen other posts saying that if you are already 'in the system' then you will be ok but nobody seems know if this only includes those who are 'in the system' by virtue of their 8% CMU contribtions or also those that are 'in the system' by virtue of their E106.

I suppose I will just have to wait and see what happens when my E106 runs out in January.

 

[Russethouse]

Glyn, I hope nobody has to 'wait and see' surely someone can give some clarity on this point ?

edit: What about asking

******* ********

Information assistant
Press and Communications
British Embassy
35 Rue du Faubourg Saint Honoré
75008,
Paris.
Tel: 01 44 51 32 81.
 Fax: 01 44 51 32 34

[makfai]

[quote user="Russethouse"]

For info, reassurance from the Health Ministry that the tightening of rules on healthcare provision will not be retrospective, so early retiree Brits already residing in France will be unaffected - they can continue to access healthcare.

So is this going to include those who are resident but still on E106's ?

I guess this could be why people are being asked to prove residency.........

 

[/quote]

 

I think you are quite right in your interpretation - the only 'reasonable' application of this legislation is to base it on residency at a certain date and the recent actions of CPAMs appear to reflect this approach. 

However if anyone wishes to pursue this further with the British Embassy rather than the French authorities then the contact details are as shown and the email address is [email protected]

[londoneye]

I have just emailed the contact above, requesting clarification.     I will of course update on any response I receive.

I am in the E106 due to expire start January 2008 situation, and am currently not working.

I would also like to just say a really big thank you to those people on the forum who have been searching out the factual information and posting it for the benefit of everyone else.    Thanks all.

[ams]

Great news, if i drank, i would open up a bottle of grand cru classe i guess tap water will do.

 

ams

[Russethouse]

The article on the Connexion site has been updated - but I don't think it offers anything more definitive than we already know.

http://www.connexionfrance.com/expatriate-news-article.php?art=36

[AnOther]

What a complete dogs breakfast.

On the one hand we have the British Embassy issuing a statement saying one thing then the French Ministry refusing to confirm it then Mr Mohan reciving an apology from his CPAM telling him he may be able to stay in.

I think there is but one single word in the current article which can be taken as the truth and that is SHAMBLES, otherwise it clarifies nothing.

[Bidaou]

The latest IFP newsletter has just come out, and it seems to me to add a few interesting things to the whole discussion.  'Too Early to Panic on New Health Rules'.

http://www.french-property.com/newsletter/2007/9/12/health

 

[mint]

[quote user="ErnieY"]

What a complete dogs breakfast.

On the one hand we have the British Embassy issuing a statement saying one thing then the French Ministry refusing to confirm it then Mr Mohan reciving an apology from his CPAM telling him he may be able to stay in.

I think there is but one single word in the current article which can be taken as the truth and that is SHAMBLES, otherwise it clarifies nothing.

[/quote]

ErnieY

I am sure you know that the original meaning of SHAMBLES is a slaughterhouse.  Sadly, I believe there will be blood on the carpet though not, I trust, as much as we'd originally thought

[Russethouse]

[quote user="Bidaou"]

The latest IFP newsletter has just come out, and it seems to me to add a few interesting things to the whole discussion.  'Too Early to Panic on New Health Rules'.

http://www.french-property.com/newsletter/2007/9/12/health

 

[/quote]

 I read this article but I am far from convinced that setting up a small company, especially one that is in fact a 'shell' rather than a legitimate working operation, is the answer. The last thing anyone wants is to find desperate ex pats prosecuted for some type of fraud......if any one is tempted by this route be sure to get proper professional advice.

Also given the situation in Spain, what chance would any appeal to the French Social Services have ? There may well be a case for those who can prove residence and are on E106 now, for others who have yet to move? Somehow I think not.

Still, it's only my opinion....we have to wait for the French to clarify the situation.....

[AnOther]

[quote user="sweet 17"]I am sure you know that the original meaning of SHAMBLES is a slaughterhouse.  Sadly, I believe there will be blood on the carpet though not, I trust, as much as we'd originally thought[/quote]Actually I didn't know that, seems it was rather an apt choice of noun though [;-)]

Here's hoping there's not too much of mine to be spilt, I'm quite fond of it....[:'(]

[Leslie]

I do think you are right to suggest we all need to wait and see how all this settles down. The article in the IFP newsletter seems to be saying the same thing really, questioning the legal basis of the decision. I have also today spoken to a French avocat (an acquaintance) who considers that the whole thing has very dubious legal validity. French residents have access to the CMU, so why not an expat who has legally gained entry to the country through a E106? Once legally resident then, under European rules, they have the same entitlement as French nationals.

[Russethouse]

If someone knows better I'm sure they will tell me, but I think the same applies to French nationals, Sarkozy thinks if they choose to retire early they should fund their health care for the years up until their official retirement age themselves. To be honest I think he has a point. That isn't to say that I don't feel desperately sorry for those caught in the middle of all this - I do.

I did a quick scout around assorted forums and articles this morning and can see nothing new.......