BREAKING NEWS ON EXPAT HEALTH COVER

[Ninthace]

I am beginning to understand why farce is such a popular art form in France

[Sunday Driver]

[quote user="Ron Avery"]

Formal notification or statement or not, I have received  a letter from URSSAF today saying that they had received from CPAM confirmation of our continuation in the CMU on condition of residence.  We do not have 5 years residence yet, so it looks like they are keeping people in the CMU who have satisfied the continued residence criteria in September without having been here for five years.  Lets hope for everyone's sake that they apply the same criteria to those who are on E 106s

[/quote]

Ron

I don't think this is an indication of them keeping anyone in the CMU.

As your CMU 'account' will have been renewed (albeit just until March 2008), CPAM will have routinely advised URSSAF of that fact so they can continue to collect your cotisations up until then.

[:(]

 

 

[seb47]

"We understand from a reliable source that the promised statement from the Social Security Department is being delayed due to an internal dispute between the ministry and the CPAMs.  The latter are delaying the implementation of the new rulings on the grounds that they are too complicated and possibly open to legal challenge.  I reckon we could have told them that!"

What the implications of this latest news will be we do not know but will keep you updated.

This could explain why some CPAMs are offering CMU de Base to E 106 January expirees until end of March?

Could it be a stalling mechanism until the French Government acknowledge the can of worms?

[cooperlola]

The more likely explanation is that those who have the task of actually implementing the mess, understand the implications rather better than the politicians.  Nothing new in that....

http://www.poleta.co.uk/

[Helen]

Like Ron we also have received a letter from USSAF (same CPAM: Aveyron) reaffilitating us into the CMU on grounds of residence.Like Sunday Driver I was a little sceptical, although we still haven't received a chucking out  letter. More interestingly,  my husband  was shown an attestation to the CMUC, received in the last few days and dated to   1/11.2008. (  I'm trying to be accurate but I'm in the UK at present so didn't see it myself).The recipient is under UK retirement age, has lived in France several years (presumably) on CMUB but this was a first application for the complementaire on grounds of reduced income.

[Ron Avery]

I think that it is, or I would not have posted it.  The cover is from 1/10/07 with no end date.  Objet IMMATRICULATION  -  Regime General Sous Conditions de Residence (CMU).

No previous communications mentioned qualification by residence.  Has anyone else in 12 got one?

[EBME]

I suspect some CPAMs are asking for clarification whilst others are trying to save face.

[makfai]

I have posted a draft text on this topic at

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/ShowPost.aspx?PageIndex=37&PostID=1100579

[Ron Avery]

I have received an attestation from CPAM valid from the 28/11/07 on the grounds of residency, although I have not been here for 5 years. Have others in the Aveyron at least have received the same?

If the attestation has been granted in accordance with continued residency, rather than the 5 year "rule", which it does not mention,  this represents a significant breakthrough and suggests at least those already in the CMU who have responded to the September continued residency proof letter are being allowed to stay in the CMU.

[Sunday Driver]

Ron

I believe that all CMU applications are granted on the basis of residency.

Every CMU letter I've ever received has included this definition.  My most recent acceptance letter dated 23 October 2007 was headed "Demande d'affiliation au régime général sous critere de résidence (protection de base)"

In the same envelope was my 30 March exclusion letter telling me I'd not been here on grounds of residency for long enough.....[:(]

 

 

[Ron Avery]

I may have confused people here a tad, so I'll clarify.

The attestation from l'Assurance Maladie Aveyron does not mention residency at all. It is worded exactly the same as the previous one that was dated from 30/06/2006.

The letter I received from URSSAF this wek which I posted about earlier says that they have received a notification from CPAM that with effect from 28/11/07 we have continued membership of the CMU base on the grounds of residency and we will be notified of the charges to be paid at a later date.

As we do not yet have 5 years residency I think, maybe wrongly, it is a sign that something has gone out to CPAMs telling them to continue at least, membership of the CMU and in the Aveyron at least hey have acted upon it.

[Sunday Driver]

Ron

The attestation does not mention conditions of residency - it's the covering letters which do.

Like every other current affiliate to CMU, your cover will have been renewed up until 31 March 2008, so it is quite correct for your CPAM to have notifed URSSAF of your account renewal.  The URSSAF letter will be routinely identifying your account and specifying the type of cotisation as being regime general under condition of residency......

 

[Ron Avery]

" your cover will have been renewed up until 31 March 2008"

I had the letter from CPAM kicking me out of the CMU from 31 march 2008 which demanded that I update my CV at my local CPAM.

This new attestation replaces all previous documents and does not require an update nor mention an end date, neither does the letter from URSSAF.

[suein56]

[quote user="Ron Avery"]

I had the letter from CPAM kicking me out of the CMU from 31 march 2008 which demanded that I update my CV at my local CPAM.

[/quote]

Ron

Did you reply to this letter? Or did the new attestation arrive without you doing anything at all?

 I ask because we have had our kicking out letter, which I have not followed up, as I hope it will be superseded, as yours seems to have been.

Sue

[Boiling a frog]

I suspect it is a bit of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing

I have my letter from CPAM telling me that I will be coverless after 31st March ,another letter from CPAM telling me what my cotisations will be ,but only from 01/10/07 till 31/12/07 both the same day , and a further letter 2 days latter from CPAM with my attestation saying I have cover from 21/11/07 with no end date.

Yet another letter after I applied for my european health card saying they were giving me a paper attestation till 4/03/08 but my actual card would be posted out in a few days time with an expiry date of 10/12/08

 

The computer systems cannot cope, that appears to be the truth,and I doubt if anyone is sneaking under the barrier  

[Ron Avery]

[quote user="spg"][quote user="Ron Avery"]

I had the letter from CPAM kicking me out of the CMU from 31 march 2008 which demanded that I update my CV at my local CPAM.

[/quote]

Ron

Did you reply to this letter? Or did the new attestation arrive without you doing anything at all?

Sue

[/quote]

No and Yes, Sue.  When I got the letter from CPAM l'Aveyron kicking us out only a week or so ago, so I phoned the sender and asked why it had been sent as news was expected any day now from the Minister of Health altering the previous directive.  The lady told me they knew about the changes coming through but had been instructed to send out the letters, I asked what to do about updating the CVs as instructed and they told me to wait for a further communication, they did not ask for SS number or anything.

 

In respect of BAF's comments, the chain of apparently contradictory letters is computer system driven, according to URSSAF,  whom I also phoned.  They were not anything as polite as CPAM but told me through gritted teeth it seemed, the letter kicking us out of the CMU was because the "system" had not recorded that we had provided evidence of residency which we all know was held back by CPAMs and the resultant computer generated letters were a mistake. 

 

The letter from URSSAF kicking us out of the CMU had been issued following notification from CPAM,  so to collect the two quarters payments before March 2008 I had to be reinstated which was why Rodez had to issue the letter giving limited membership until March 2008, even though they knew that it was likely to be amended in the near future.  Now I have been apparently reinstated by CPAM I have a letter of "re-entry" with no end date from them and from URSSAF with no mention of limited membership.

 

EDIT  I cut and paste this from word, it said its 3 font in the message box, but it lied[:$]

[AnOther]

Lost your glasses again Ron [:D]

[woolybanana]

Come on guys, keep the print size down. Ron does know better.

[Boiling a frog]

Ron ,have you asked CPAM if you have cover under CMU and until when  or are you just assuming,this could be important to know.or have you just received the normal letter from URSAFF

Objet Immatriculation

Votre Caisse Primaire dássurance Maladie m,a informe de votre affiliation au regime de

regime general sous condition de residence

With no mention of how much you have to pay

That is a standard letter.

 

[Sunday Driver]

B a f

Ron received his exclusion letter and when he phoned the CPAM, they confirmed that this was correct.

When he subsequently rang URSSAF, they told him they assumed that the CPAM exclusion letter had been computer generated in the absence of them recording his residency qualification.  As Ron has been here less than five years and therefore doesn't yet qualify under the condition of residency, their assumtion was clearly wrong.

His 'reinstatement' letter confirms he is covered until March 2008.

 

 

[Helen]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

B a f

Ron received his exclusion letter and when he phoned the CPAM, they confirmed that this was correct.

When he subsequently rang URSSAF, they told him they assumed that the CPAM exclusion letter had been computer generated in the absence of them recording his residency qualification.  As Ron has been here less than five years and therefore doesn't yet qualify under the condition of residency, their assumtion was clearly wrong.

His 'reinstatement' letter confirms he is covered until March 2008.

 

 

[/quote]
We too live in the Aveyron, an CPAM which I feel is either totally bemused, way behind with its administration or hedging its bets and doing as little as possible until things pan out. 

 We have been here for over five years, I also have an ALD which  theoretically gives complementaire cover until 2020. We have never received a standard chucking out letter but did receive an additional  letter(not computer generated) asking for more details of our titre de sejour (we replied with details of the '5 year rule' and our evidence.)

On  the 20th November we received a letter closing our USSAF account, as far as I can see this was received by every British person in  the area that I know (including sadly one who died 2 years ago). On the same  day the CPAM card reader still issued a printed attestation of affiliation and we were assured by an official that we were still covered.  Last week USSAF rescinded the closure  letter saying that we were 'reaffiliated' on grounds of residence- no end date was given.

 

 

[suein56]

[quote user="Ron Avery"][quote user="spg"][quote user="Ron Avery"]

I had the letter from CPAM kicking me out of the CMU from 31 march 2008 which demanded that I update my CV at my local CPAM. [/quote]

Ron

Did you reply to this letter? Or did the new attestation arrive without you doing anything at all?

Sue [/quote]

No and Yes, Sue. 

The letter from URSSAF kicking us out of the CMU had been issued following notification from CPAM,  so to collect the two quarters payments before March 2008 I had to be reinstated which was why Rodez had to issue the letter giving limited membership until March 2008, even though they knew that it was likely to be amended in the near future.  Now I have been apparently reinstated by CPAM I have a letter of "re-entry" with no end date from them and from URSSAF with no mention of limited membership.

[/quote]

 

Thanks Ron - you have made things a lot clearer. As my part of Morbihan is always ages behind everyone else I'll await my series of letters with resigned anticipation.

 

Sue

[Ron Avery]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

B a f

Ron received his exclusion letter and when he phoned the CPAM, they confirmed that this was correct. 

Not that it was correct, that it was "necessary" in order that URSSAF would be able to recommence the collection of  cotisations.  CPAM said that they were aware of a further change in the offing, not to update my CV and wait for a further communication.

When he subsequently rang URSSAF, they told him they assumed that the CPAM exclusion letter had been computer generated in the absence of them recording his residency qualification.  As Ron has been here less than five years and therefore doesn't yet qualify under the condition of residency, their assumtion was clearly wrong.

His 'reinstatement' letter confirms he is covered until March 2008.

I realise that all these letters are confusing  so I'll post the sequence.

The letter from URSSAF kicking us out of the CMU came first. a phone call to URSSAF said it was a mistake and had been issued because no residency qualification had been received from CPAM.

 The next letter came from CPAM.  It was the standard you have until 31 March 2008 to find another assurance maladie etc.  The phone call in response to that to CPAM generated the information of them being aware of an imminemt development and not to update my CV.

Then came the reinstatement letter from URSSAF with effect from 28/11/07 and a then a new Attestation from CPAM.  Neither the letter from URSSAF or my new Attestation dated 28/11/07 has any reference to only being valid until March 2008 although that could be the case.

I will ask at CPAM Villefranche de Rourgue on Tuesday and let you know.  

 

[/quote]

[cooperlola]

Post deleted due to further delays.

[cooperlola]

PUBLISHED WITHIN THE LAST HOUR

http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Policyandguidance/Healthadvicefortravellers/DH_078670

We are awaiting a statement from the French and will keep you up to date.  We have had announcements from this source before, which have not been confirmed by the French government, so do not take this as gospel until you hear more, would be my advice.