Buying a television - Idiots guidance required please.

[dave21478]

Hi,

I have not owned a telly for several years now, and am considering buying one. Needless to say...technology has moved on a tad from my last one, which was one of those new fangled widescreen CRT things.

I had a browse round Darty while killing time today and its baffling.

36 - 40" seems to be a good size for my room, and I have no interest in 3d etc, I just want a decent picture. I have a dvd player, will be linking a satellite box and would like to be able to link my laptop to it too.

So, LCD? LED? Plasma? Full HD? HD ready? I dunno....frankly, the picture on all but the very expensive sets looked quite ropey in the shop and there is no way in hell I am paying a Grand for one. Ideally in the 300 - 400 € sort of range.

Also, are these things cheaper in UK? a quick browse online suggests this might be the case and I would happily wait till my next trip back if its worth it. However, will a UK telly work in France? This used to be a potential issue years back but I dont know if it still is. Most of the ones I saw in Darty had a TNT tuner built in (analogue has been switched off round here). would a UK telly with a built in freeview thing work for french transmissions?

The house has no aerial so that would need added, plus I would need a dish for uk tv (I have recouped a uk Sky box with freeview card)......Seems silly to have both, I dont suppose french programs could be picked up on the same dish? but then that would need another decoder box I assume?

Anything else I should know?

[cooperlola]

I can answer some of this.  Modern UK tellies work in France.  You need to change the plug.  End of.

You can get one from Amazon UK  and they only charge about £7 or so so ship. 

I love my Plasma and I've yet to see a better picture in LDC/LED but its problem is that it is mega-heavy so you need to really know what you're doing if you intend to put it on the wall (I've no doubt that you do, Dave).  I read somewhere that falling TVs, badly put up, are one of the major causes of accidents in the home these days!  Lots of people told me loads of dire things about plasma retaining the channel symbol in the corner of the screen, degrading in parts etc etc but after 7 years of very heavy use (because I've been so much more confined to the house in the last 3-4 years it really is on a lot,) it is (touch very large oak tree), still performing like a dream.

My other bit of amateur advice is to get a telly with as many inputs and outputs (HDMI and Peritel) as possible, then you can play around with different sat boxes (one for France and one for UK telly), recorders, surround stytems etc,  ditto.

But as I say, I'm not an expert, just a telly adict who also is a gift to the technology industry.  When chosing these things I do always spend a long time reading all the techy reviews though and buy what they recommend, if I can, as they have the facility to bench test these things and compare them, as few people on more general fora can.

[pachapapa]

I use this site to compare different TVs.

http://www.lcd-compare.com/

[NormanH]

A little off topic, but do you really need a TV? Would just a monitor do linked to the other items you mention? My freebox can receive TNT as a decoder if necessary, although I use  adsl for my TV programmes and so don't have to pay the license.

I have a screen linked to my computer and don't use a separate TV. In my case the link is by cable, but there are other options, such as HDMI Wifi

Like cooperlola I am no tekky.

[PaulT]

Cannot comment based on as long a time scale as Coops but the plasma we have does not seem to retain any static images on the screen.

As for weight, we have a Sony LCD (HD) 46" in the UK and an LG Plasma (Full HD) 50" in France. The Sony is the weight of a small car the LG the weight of a small bicycle.

HD means 720 pixels and Full HD 1028 pixels.

A couple of years back Tesco was selling a Full HD 32" for £199. I bought one as we would be putting the house on the market in the not too distant future and felt that a 32" instead of a 46" would make the room look bigger. I thought at that price the picture would be rubbish but it is superb.

The prices of TVs in the UK have tumbled and seem extremely cheap to what they were.

Coops comment about Amazon, I have only done it ordering from Amazon France to the UK and the service was quick and cheap. The only problem you will have if it goes wrong (but reading this forum you struggle if you have bought something in France and it goes wrong). However, modern electronics are extremely reliable so if it works when built it should carry on working.

It would seem that the LED TVs are superior to the other types and relatively cheap.

If you like films then adding surround sound can greatly enhance a film - try Saving Private Ryan.

As said modern TVs will work in both UK and France.

Paul

 

[Quillan]

Here's my monies worth and how I would tackle it.

Get out and about and visit some shops like Darty etc and have a look at the TV's on display and see which ones have the picture you like because at the end of the day it's down to personal choice of picture quality.

To understand the difference between Plasma, LED and LCD type TV's you may find the following link in 'easy read' format of help.

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/lcd-vs-led-vs-plasma.html

A good source of info is also Which magazine if you have an account (or perhaps a family member does).

When you have seen a TV you like you can also use Amazon to read the reviews, at least they are done by 'real' people. As an example the first two best TV's by review are the Sony Bravo 32" LCD TV and the 42" Panasonic Plasma TV. The latter also has a built in Freeview and Freesat receiver so you don't need a Sky box and you can have UK and French TV on the same TV with no extra box's.

As far I know there is no difference between HD Ready and HD, it merely implies that should you have an HD device you can connect it to the TV for HD use.

Once you know what you like then write down the product number, go home and bash it in to the computer (like Google for instance) to find the cheapest price.

You could also try a smaller shop and take with you your favorite DVD and ask them to play it for you so you can see something you know. Does not mean you have to buy from them of course.

[dave21478]

Hi.

I never thought about Amazon, and they have a few interesting models, but I am wary of getting something like that delivered.... No matter which courier it is sent with, it is always a local firm that deliver the last leg from hub to my house, and they have little care for the parcels. Previous purchases have been left in the rain on the doorstep, arrived mangled or just outright been stolen.

I am not too bothered by the weight - once its on the wall, thats it.

Scart seems to be out of favour now, but all the equipment I have left, which is several years old, uses scart sockets. Is there any adaptor availabe to join scart to hdmi or hdmi to seperate 5.1 audio phono plugs? Some of the screens I have been looking at only have 1 scart socket, is there a way to connect 2 devices to 1 socket?

My last telly setup cost a fair whack back then, with a decent dvd player and an AV amp, which have been relegated to cd player and hifi duties of late, so the sound will be no problem, which from what i read on reviews is the weak point of most flat screen tv's.

Monitors dont seem to come much larger than 27", and the lack of tuner would require another black box to receive a signal. My internet is too slow to provide reliable tv streaming for any length of time.

Will have a look at that comparison site, thanks.

[Théière]

[quote user="Quillan"]

Here's my monies worth and how I would tackle it.

Get out and about and visit some shops like Darty etc and have a look at the TV's on display and see which ones have the picture you like because at the end of the day it's down to personal choice of picture quality.

A good source of info is also Which magazine if you have an account (or perhaps a family member does).

[/quote]

Shops sometimes re tune the colour etc on TV's to make others look better, the better looking ones earn the shop more comission.

Witch magazine, one of the greatest rip offs on the planet. Absolutely not needed now we have the Internet, only read by people who are too old to own a computer. The cost of Witch magazine per year, ha you could go out and buy the most expensive item and forget Witch reviews, every 3-4 years you could throw the item away for what you wasted in Witch subscription.

Paul T's post was more useful as Q doesn't understand HD or HD ready.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_ready

[Sunday Driver]

Dave

I replaced my old TV setup early last year and I got lots of useful advice at the time:

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/1/2382265/ShowPost.aspx#2382265

In the end, I bought a Sony Bravia LCD from Amazon.fr - ordered at 4pm, delivered 8.30am the following morning. Also bought a Humax box from Amazon.uk for the UK telly to replace my old French decoder.

As regards connecting everything up:

Humax box to TV - HDMI cable.

Humax box to DVD recorder - SCART.

DVD recorder to TV - SCART.

 

[Martin963]

And no-one has mentioned the possiblity that a TV bought in Britain (even if "HD ready") will not cope with off air (ie direct via an aerial) HD broadcasts in France  (and may well not cope with HD broadcasts in Britain either unless it's been carefully chosen,  even now).

But I won't bang on about it as it sounds as though you're probably buying in France.

[Chezstevens]

Quick twopennyworth ... we have 5 LCD tellys ranging from 22 to 46". We have bought Samsung models, none cost more than £600, because Sony's use Samsung components why pay the premium? Our 2 boys have rigorously tested LCD & LED using gamestations etc (tend to be up on latest tech). Newer models are wired for internet .... so what you ask ....

[dave21478]

[quote user="Martin963"]And no-one has mentioned the possiblity that a TV bought in Britain (even if "HD ready") will not cope with off air (ie direct via an aerial) HD broadcasts in France  (and may well not cope with HD broadcasts in Britain either unless it's been carefully chosen,  even now).

But I won't bang on about it as it sounds as though you're probably buying in France.

[/quote]

wait, hold on.....

People are saying that a modern uk telly just plugs in a works here in France, but you think not?

For example, if I got a full HD screen from uk, would it receive the french transmissions through the aerial, and would they be in HD?

[pachapapa]

The UK arrived late in the Full HD 1080 p/i terrestrial television and is already using DVB-T2; france is still on DVB-T and will only start with DVB-T2 in 2016.

For example the next 6 channels on TNT to be awarded in march 2012 will be in DVB-T of which two in HD.

OT but relevant possibly, yesterday thursday the 4G licences were awarded with SFR getting two of the four available meaning Free will have the right to piggy back on SFR; the 4G will give stratospheric bandwidths on Smart Phones more than sufficient for HD TV. The 4G is a direct result of the complete move to digital TNT so that the previous analogue 800 mhz bands will be used. It will all be functionong in 2013.

So if you are thinking of taking a french TV back to the UK it may not give the full HD channel capability. UK TV to france assuming that the model is recent will not be a problem until 2016.

In my opinion on the basis of the 2016 schedule and the probability that 4G Smart Phone may change usage preferences, it is more important to ensure that a new TV has DVB-S2 tuning capabilities for satellite reception as this is already relevant on pay sat TV services.

Delivery care is important with large flat screen TVs with the Plasma TVs being particularly subject to screen cover fracture or damage, I had problems with mine and due to delaying more than 10 days in making a claim, I had to use the samsung Guarantee service.

In future I shall in future use this service as the regional centre is in Tours with collection of defective equipment on a weekly basis using the firms own transport vehicules.

OK enough for now but just one more point if you buy Samsung in the product code an B is 2009, a C is 2010, a D is 2011, a E  is 2012.

It is close to 2012 so you might be able to get a discount on a D 2011 model, even though the 2012 models are unlikely to be released prior to the Electronics Show in LA in march. A D 2011 will have DVB-S2, a C may not .

[PaulT]

The difference between HD and full HD is the number of pixels. It is only with the larger screen sizes that the difference will become apparent. 32" and you should be OK with HD. Go larger and give consideration to full HD.

As regards 3DTV it seemed to me that prices of these and non-3DTV are very close. Personally thinking is 3D worth it? However, did get an early colour TV when a number of people were saying they did not want one - go buy a B&W one now.

 

[pachapapa]

As a clarification of SD standard definition and HD high definition in a french context.

SD up to 576 lines.

HD either 720 lines OR 1080 lines.

this can be 720i or 720p, 1080i or 1080p.

A word of caution several of the cheaper 3D TVs have a lower definition than 1080p, normally 1366X768.

http://www.lcd-compare.com/hd-ready-hd-tv-news-8.htm#hdtv

Note Passive 3D TVs are cheaper than Active 3D TVs.

P.S. Lurking in the wings Quad HD TV....for a reeeeeally nice picture.[:P]

[pachapapa]

[:)] And for real idiots with deeeep pockets and an antipathy to those nasty heavy active 3D lunettes that complicate the viewing of persons with prescription lenses...the latest Toshiba Quad HD TV with face recognition technology to give you that perfect "got no glasses" 3D picture.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/01/toshibas-glasses-free-3d-tv-launches-in-europe-as-the-zl2-in-de/

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Martin963"]And no-one has mentioned the possiblity that a TV bought in Britain (even if "HD ready") will not cope with off air (ie direct via an aerial) HD broadcasts in France  (and may well not cope with HD broadcasts in Britain either unless it's been carefully chosen,  even now).

But I won't bang on about it as it sounds as though you're probably buying in France.
[/quote]Ooo, er, sorry Dave, mea culpa,  I did of course mislead you.  In my defence, I have never had an aerial here and all my TV - French and English - comes via a dish so I did forget this problem.[:$]  Thanks, as per, Martin.

[Baz]

[quote user="Théière"][quote user="Quillan"]

Here's my monies worth and how I would tackle it.

Get out and about and visit some shops like Darty etc and have a look at the TV's on display and see which ones have the picture you like because at the end of the day it's down to personal choice of picture quality.

A good source of info is also Which magazine if you have an account (or perhaps a family member does).

[/quote]

Witch magazine, one of the greatest rip offs on the planet. Absolutely not needed now we have the Internet, only read by people who are too old to own a computer. The cost of Witch magazine per year, ha you could go out and buy the most expensive item and forget Witch reviews, every 3-4 years you could throw the item away for what you wasted in Witch subscription.

[/quote]

Théière, I am very surprised at your comments about Which and I find your comments totally out of date.

I resubscribed to Which some 15 months ago and how it has changed since I was last a member.

It now provides in addition to the magazines, weekly internet newsletter updates on products, cars, money etc, a free computer problem solving service. Which Local  has been invaluable to me by providing a free, reliable and  recommended tradespeople online service. It has saved members masses of money with its legal service, the internet site information is updated immediately to which members subscription gives full access and this just to mention a few aspects you get for a small outlay.

I  have no connections with Which other than being a member. I also suspect it might benefit financially many of contributers on this site, that thanks to Which and the members  petitioning the UK government to stop the  "Excessive" fees for using a debit or credit card to buy items such as travel that the government are now ending this bad practice by the end of 2012..

Baz

[Quillan]

So all TV's manufactured after say 2010 are HD Ready because they all receive HD although the 'ready' word is now missing where as the link is talking about 2004/5 when of course HD was not so common as a terrestrial transmission mode. Perhaps my error is not mentioning that by default I was thinking about digital terrestrial broadcasting.

I am sure I read on this forum people asking if they bought a Freeview set top box from the UK would it work in France and I am sure I seem to remember that people said yes but of course you would only get French channels and not English ones. Likewise I think I remember people saying, on the forum, that a TNT set top box bought in France would work in the UK but then of course I might be wrong. If this is correct then why would a set top box work in both countries and not a TV with a built in receiver?

This is a subject that I admit to having limited knowledge as I don't need a new TV. My old 38" 'tube' Philips is still going strong and I have to say having looked at HD TV's in shops I can hardly notice, if at all, any difference in picture quality. Based on that I obviously don't need to buy a new one yet (till the Philips goes bang of course) and have done little research other than read a few posts on this forum.

Whilst mentioning picture quality I am reminded of a Specsavers advert (I think it was them) that said there is little point in having HD if your eyes are not 'HD'.

If you hold on till 2012 then you will be able (possibly) to see the first HoloTV's for sale which by using 3D Blue-ray discs (and some inbuilt fancy software) will give you a holographic film in the middle of you lounge that you can walk round and through. Loads of photo's of the tests on YouTube and other sources and some limited info HERE. I understand MIT have used a couple of modified X Box's to play holographic films and that Jessica Yellin was recorded in holo mode during the 2008 US elections and 'played back' in the CNN studio.

As for delivery.  I have never had a problem and have had loads of delicate things delivered from computer, monitors up to pieces of china. I have not had a problem but I always inspect the exterior of the box before signing and if it's been damaged take a photo with the courier holding it (I say something like " Can you hold this a minute so I can take a photo")and make sure I have the guys face in the picture as well. If he can't hang around then I write on the sheet you sign something like "Les contenus n'ont pas examiné." (Contents not examined) just in case. Should I have a problem then I would say that I couldn't examine the goods because the guy wanted to go and could not wait for me to unbox it and plug it in. I have to say hat Amazon are quite good at taking things back that are broken, I have read many people say this. All the stuff is insured anyway it's just the inconvenience of sending it back and getting a replacement and lets be honest getting it from a local shop and having them deliver does not mean it can't arrive broken either.

[Martin963]

Just to clarify my remark....

In Britain,  apart from the HD/Full HD issue (which has been comprehensively discussed,   people do seem to understand that at least) there is the Freeview/Freeview HD issue.

As ppp says,   Britain uses DVB-T2 for its HD terrestrial broadcasts,   and if you buy a set with "Freeview HD" then it should be fine in France for HD terrestrial broadcasts,  as it will have MPEG4 and DVB-T2 (and France at present requires only MPEG4 with DVB-T.)

However,   an awful lot of TVs are still on sale in Britain that are HD ready/Full HD but WILL NOT receive HD broadcasts direct,   because they only have MPEG2 and DVB-T chips.   So people can of course watch DVDs etc in HD but not TV broadcasts without obtaining yet another receiver box.   These Freeview (without the Freeview HD) are significantly cheaper than the proper Freeview HD TVs.   The trick is to check whether the Freeview mention is qualified with HD immediately after it!

En revanche,   all French TVs now on sale (apart perhaps from tiny portables) have DVB-T with MPEG4,  so they will be fine for French HD TV direct off an aerial,  at least for the next few years,  as France has funked the decision to move to DVB-T2 for the moment,  perhaps understandably.   They would not work for British HD broadcasts on terrestrial as they can't cope with the DVB-T2.

So if you're only going to be using the TV in France AND you would like it to pick up TF1/FR2/Arte/M6 in HD direct off an aerial then you will be fine to purchase in France,  but in England you would need to check that it was Freeview HD not just Freeview.

Sorry it's so complicated.

[Théière]

[quote user="Baz"][quote user="Théière"]Witch magazine, one of the greatest rip offs on the planet. Absolutely not needed now we have the Internet, only read by people who are too old to own a computer. The cost of Witch magazine per year, ha you could go out and buy the most expensive item and forget Witch reviews, every 3-4 years you could throw the item away for what you wasted in Witch subscription.

[/quote]

Théière, I am very surprised at your comments about Which and I find your comments totally out of date.

I resubscribed to Which some 15 months ago and how it has changed since I was last a member.

It now provides in addition to the magazines, weekly internet newsletter updates on products, cars, money etc, a free computer problem solving service. Which Local  has been invaluable to me by providing a free, reliable and  recommended tradespeople online service. It has saved members masses of money with its legal service, the internet site information is updated immediately to which members subscription gives full access and this just to mention a few aspects you get for a small outlay.

I  have no connections with Which other than being a member. I also suspect it might benefit financially many of contributers on this site, that thanks to Which and the members  petitioning the UK government to stop the  "Excessive" fees for using a debit or credit card to buy items such as travel that the government are now ending this bad practice by the end of 2012..

Baz

[/quote]

Yep I could be out of touch with witch, lost all interest a long time ago.

I lost out a group pension scheme for nearly 400 members because witch recommended Equitable Life, turned out to be really great advice! to this day when I meet the director of that company he still regrets his decision.

I followed witch's advice on a steam iron a few years ago, lasted 1 month passed the guarantee, took it to the repairers and they said yes it has a stainless steel sole plate but witch didn't tell you the sides were made of tin plate and develop a rust hole right here (as he put his thumb trough the side of the water tank) so much for the "Best Buy".

Some years earlier they recommended the zx spectrum over the Amiga 64 computer as it had a water resistant keyboard, pity the test was about computing power not nasty keyboards.

It isn't on sale in shops because it wouldn't sell and the subscription is I believe £72 a year for the basic. Pat your self on the back a moral victory over Michael O'leary but you won't save a penny as the flight cost will just increase, still in a schadenfreude way at least you have stopped me and several other forum members from using the cards that were lower in fee.

Money saving expert

[dave21478]

[quote user="Martin963"]Just to clarify my remark....

In Britain,  apart from the HD/Full HD issue (which has been comprehensively discussed,   people do seem to understand that at least) there is the Freeview/Freeview HD issue.

As ppp says,   Britain uses DVB-T2 for its HD terrestrial broadcasts,   and if you buy a set with "Freeview HD" then it should be fine in France for HD terrestrial broadcasts,  as it will have MPEG4 and DVB-T2 (and France at present requires only MPEG4 with DVB-T.)

However,   an awful lot of TVs are still on sale in Britain that are HD ready/Full HD but WILL NOT receive HD broadcasts direct,   because they only have MPEG2 and DVB-T chips.   So people can of course watch DVDs etc in HD but not TV broadcasts without obtaining yet another receiver box.   These Freeview (without the Freeview HD) are significantly cheaper than the proper Freeview HD TVs.   The trick is to check whether the Freeview mention is qualified with HD immediately after it!

En revanche,   all French TVs now on sale (apart perhaps from tiny portables) have DVB-T with MPEG4,  so they will be fine for French HD TV direct off an aerial,  at least for the next few years,  as France has funked the decision to move to DVB-T2 for the moment,  perhaps understandably.   They would not work for British HD broadcasts on terrestrial as they can't cope with the DVB-T2.

So if you're only going to be using the TV in France AND you would like it to pick up TF1/FR2/Arte/M6 in HD direct off an aerial then you will be fine to purchase in France,  but in England you would need to check that it was Freeview HD not just Freeview.

Sorry it's so complicated.

[/quote]

Thanks for taking the time to help, its much appreciated.

Same to everyone else who has contributed. This is a steeper learning curve than I had anticipated.... I will have to get some research done.

[Théière]

Yes back on topic, Thanks Martin a very helpful explanation.

Dave, Techradar feature some good reviews

[pachapapa]

Just a word on definition. Whilst there are still a lot of 576i SD channels available, in fact most everything but specific HD channels.

The HD definition comes in two varieties as stated above and most of the channels are in 720i/p, as for example all the currently available HD channels on the french TNT "bouquet". As a result it is difficult to get an idea as to the difference between 720 and 1080.

The only practical way is to resort to an HD TV fitted with an onboard Satellite Tuner compatible with DVB-S2; but high definition transmissions even then are thin on the ground.

But they are available and well worth the search for the picture quality and the bonus of Dolby Prologic sound, rather than the standard Stereo, particularly on a compatible Home Cinema 5.1 sound system.

At the moment I am watching the Austrian Servus TV channel in HD 1080i with a transmission of the Nussknacker Ballet from the famous Marionetten Theater in Salzburg, a Christtag special for children. The quality on an HD TV is really exceptional. The Nutcracker will finish at 12:14 P.M. when I shall change to the Spanish International Television Satellite channel for the Concierto de Navidad starting at 12:15 PM.  The transmission will be in SD not HD at 576i definition; the difference will be very noticeable.

Moral: Prats who say that definition is irrelevant have probably never seen a programme transmitted in 1080i/p ane are probably the same prats that say Blu-Ray 1080p discs are no better than bog standard DVDs...[:D]

You have the chance to upgrade your equipment at relatively moderate cost compared with just a year ago and after christmas the bargains will be mouth watering; the winter sales start in france on the 11th January.

Oh and a merry christmas and good tidings to all the stupid prats still cossetting Cathodic Tubes & € 25 cheap DVD players who have ably assisted this auspicious purchasing moment.

No names! No pack drill![;-)]

http://www.servustv.com/cs/Satellite/Article/Der-Nussknacker-011259407457577

[sid]

Woooo! And goodwill to all men!

Let's have a few days truce PPP, p-l-e-a-s-e !

Merry Christmas

(I hope I'm not one of the prats, but what the heck, broad shoulders and all that!).