Astra 2E/2F Technical Thread

[Daft Doctor]

Thanks, the article is interesting if (for me at least) a bit technical.  Will upgrade to an 80cm dish when we move, but was only interested in getting the optimum LNB as it will be a brand new installation.  Signal might also be compromised as the house will have a Sedea Miniswitch in a communications box, taking all 4 inputs from the LNB then sending all of them out to each of 5 TV/Sat sockets around the house.  The signal loss at each output from this unit is meant to be only -2dB, but not sure how much of an impact that will mean in practice.  

[Martin963]

[quote user="Daft Doctor"]

Hi, Firstly must add my thanks to Martin963 and Jako for their input to this thread, absolutely invaluable. 

We had heavy rain for a couple of hours yesterday evening and lost signal temporarily on one of our two feeds (input 1), the one bringing in BBC2HD, reading 0% strength and quality.  Input 2 showed strength of 80% and quality of 70%, so I was confused at such a huge difference, would that be explained by the recent changes?  When we lost signal last Saturday night during snow it was input 2 which went to 0%/0%, so don't think it is poor/loose connections on the roof.

As I was writing this, the same has just happened this morning (it's snowing).  Again we lost BBC2HD but can get BBC2SD no problem.  Now it is back to decent strength and quality again! Seems we are now very weather dependant on certain channels, unless there is some other problem I'm missing?  Will have to cope until the move to new house, but will definitely get an 80cm dish and a top LNB.  On that subject, are these Inverto Black Ultra universal significantly better, and do they need any different set up to a standard quad LNB?

[/quote]

Thank you Daft Doctor.

The signal strength figure going down to zero is interesting.   Whilst different LNBs and receivers behave differently a zero strength (as opposed to quality) can mean that the LNB has stopped working or that the connection to it has been entirely lost.   On a great many boxes (at least in my experience) as soon as you plug the LNB in the strength meter will register,   even if the dish is lying on the ground on its side!    Was it very cold when it happened?   I'm puzzled,   Jako?

Certainly at the moment I would reckon that a bigger dish will solve your problems but maybe the jury is out as to whether some extra euros would be justified on a 1 m....?

[Danny]

[quote user="AnOther"]You might want to read this before getting excited about a new LNB.

[url]http://www.satcritics.com/sc_tech_lnb.pdf[/url]

I realise it's 12 years old but the principals still apply.

Frankly if there is nothing overtly wrong with the LNB you have then changing it, even for oft praised all singing all dancing Inverto Black, is likely to disappoint.

Fastidious attention to dish alignment, cable length and quality, and quality of connectors, are all more likely result in improvements than changing the LNB.

[/quote]

Purely anecdotal evidence but I have to say that when I changed my LNB for a Quad inverto black ultra, there was a definite measurable improvement of roughly perhaps 5 - 10 %.  There are lots of others factors as you say but it worked for me on the same set up, adjusted in exactly the same way using the same cabling etc.

So if one wants to get a few extra .1dBs, I think it may be a good idea. It could of course be many things - maybe just general build quality compared to the previous LNB etc but there you go.

Danny

[Martin963]

[quote user="Quillan"][quote user="Daft Doctor"]

[/quote]

It might have been Martin who suggested the Inverto months back for me to try and they are not that expensive[/quote]

Not guilty m'lud,   simply because I'm lucky enough to not need anything fancy so my knowledge of esoteric LNBs is limited.   But I do remember someone else did - maybe Danny?

But I'd agree with Danny (and with Ernie for that matter) that whilst some claims for LNBs are clearly fanciful it's worth getting at least an up to date one if signal is a problem.   I have 12 or so LNBs in service in both countries and it is rare not for one to fail every year.   When I replace it there's nearly always a slight improvement in signal quality (some of them are 10 years old) - as Danny has described.

[Martin963]

[quote user="PaulT"]Obviously alignment is vital and I presume even more so when the signal is weak.

Would one of these be beneficial?

http://tinyurl.com/l9ua222

sorry, looks like it wil need to be cut and pasted.

I have a meter that is just a pointer on a scale. I had thought of sticking an Inverto Black Ultra on the 80cm dish just in case ir receives anything and having the box and a TV by the dish connected by a short piece of cable and adjusting to see if anything is received.

Then when nothing is replacing it with a larger dish which will obviously require aligning.[/quote]

That meter looks quite nice,  but of course one only finds out the drawbacks (if any) by using it.   But I'm seriously tempted to try one out of interest,  as at present I have to take mine back and forth between countries.   Doesn't look as though it can handle DVB-S2 though (or HD in DVB-S).

Nothing wrong in the meantime with taking a TV and the box out to the dish.   It's what I did for years,  although I had a small portable for this purpose that I wasn't bothered  about sustaining superficial damage (or the heavens opening unexpectedly!)>

[Jako]

Be aware that the mentioned satlink meter can only receive DVB-S signals and not the new DVB-S2 used by transponders carrying HD channels. Most transponders are still using the old DVB-S specs so you can use the meter for now, but in the future DVB-S will disappear rendering the meter useless.

As soon as you connect  an LNB to the receiver and power the receiver up, the LNB will receive and produce noise. The amp of the tuner will automatically turn 'open' to the max and voila: signal is there, but it is just background noise of whatever you are pointing the lnb to+the LNB's own noise level.

Any new LNB is bound to outperform an older lnb because noise levels are much lower  now, around 0.2 dB, where 3 dB was normal 15 years ago.

The insertion loss of a switch is not so important. A 3 dB insertion loss will only make the amp of the tuner amplify 3 dB more. It is the noise figure of the switch that is important, because that noise will add to the existing noise level. Unfortunately, the irrelevant insertion loss is always mentioned in the specs and the noise figure never.

P.s

I also used to take tuner+small tv towards the dish. Nowadays I  use Open-Linux receivers connected to the local Wifi so I only need a notebook/smartphone with the appropriate 'app' that displays the signal levels and even has a build-in lady that speaks loud, clear and without getting tired...[:D]

[Martin963]

That sounds like a really neat idea.  Is it a Dreambox?

[Jako]

2 old SD dreamboxes, one xtrend HD PVR.

[PaulT]

Thanks both for the advice re meters. In addition, you have both urged caution about the future. From reading various fora it seems that reception can be sporadic with speculation that there was some tweaking going on. Also hearing from a friend in the UK who has heard from a friend who has a house near his French house who has a 1.4m dish and no BBC think caution is the best policy.

Have ordered a new LNB so will try that and not do anything else on our visit to France (Late Feb to early April) and see what happens and plan what to do for our next visit starting in June.

[Martin963]

[quote user="Jako"]2 old SD dreamboxes, one xtrend HD PVR.

[/quote]

I'm envious.   I nearly bought a Dreambox in about 2004 I think,  but stuck with Technomates and various CAMs,   all of which are now in the attic.

In some ways I wish I had,   although I'm not that good with computers (I've struggled with Linux for two years,   and have finally now bought a Windoze machine in the last couple of weeks which I shall migrate back to fairly soon).   I'm not sure I'd have ever got my head round a Dreambox.

For example,  no one is able to tell me of a non-geeky way of turning off auto updates for Firefox.   My internet this morning has just slowed right down (yet again) with "unauthorised" ADSL activity which I'm fairly sure is Firefox doing its own thing - which is ridiculous because the Linux-squad always tell us there are no viruses so - selon moi - it should not matter a jot if Firefox isn't up to date!!

But I digress and will soon be free of Linux.

[Gardian]

Just told my French neighbour about the TV problems.

"Well we're OK", he said.

I explained that it was a new 'satellite anglais' that had been launched and all the programmes were being transferred to it.

"Its got a Union Jack and a picture of the Queen on it" I said.

He's not sure whether I'm having him on.[6]

[Martin963]

In our kitchen in 24 we have one of those clocks that goes backwards,  that is to say that the hands sweep anticlockwise and the figures are appropriately placed so that it tells the time correctly in all respects other than that one has to make quite a mental effort (until one is used to it) to interpret it.

I patiently explain to French friends that - as we still drive on the left hand side of the road in Britain - it is entirely logical that our existing horological arrangements should similarly have been unaffected by Napoleon.

And - like with your friend - and because I appear a person of the utmost sincerity - our friends can be seen wrestling with themselves as they try to work out whether I'm teasing them.

[AnOther]

[quote user="Martin963"]For example,  no one is able to tell me of a

non-geeky way of turning off auto updates for Firefox.[/quote]

Tools - Options - Advanced - Update

Choose what you want.

Now don't you tell me that was in the slightest bit geeky !

[Martin963]

Good try ernie!!!   But in MY tools menu there is only

Web Search

Downloads

Add ons

Set up Sync

Web Developer

Page Info

Start Private Browsing

Clear Recent History

However,  in Edit -> Preferences -> Advanced -> Updates you'd think there would be the magic key.   But there isn't,  there's only an option to turn on and off the updates for Search Engines.

And that's why I want out of Linux as soon as possible,  so often the "help" doesn't correspond with MY machine.  

Thanks for trying though.

[tonyv]

If you're on a linux box, it's edit > preferences > update.

On a 'doze box, I think the preferences sub-menu is under the file menu.

[HoneySuckleDreams]

Kids reported back at the weekend. We still have ITV stuff and some shopping channels but for how long?

Anyway, I've been looking at bigger dishes, 130/140cm. Does anyone have a supplier they have used ? I have found steel, aluminium and epoxy dishes. Offset and otherwise. What seems to be best ? I was hoping to still get it onto the roof, so aluminium would be best

 

I've found these guys http://www.2galli.fr/boutique/liste_produits.cfm?type=30&code_lg=lg_fr but they seem expensive

 

[Martin963]

ITV is probably just for tonight - although second-guessing SES is always dangerous.

But it may well be that ITV and ch 4 are gone by tomorrow morning. 

Will be interesting to see whether there's an exact correlation between losing the BBC and losing the commercials...

[Martin963]

[quote user="tonyv"]If you're on a linux box, it's edit > preferences > update.

On a 'doze box, I think the preferences sub-menu is under the file menu.

[/quote]

Sadly,  as I explained in my previous,   the update option you describe (you left out the advanced step between preferences and update) only seems to apply to search engine updates.

That's why I find Linux so frustrating.  A quick internet search shows that I'm not the only one who can't turn off Firefox auto updates.

Grrrr.

[Danny]

[quote user="HoneySuckleDreams"]

Kids reported back at the weekend. We still have ITV stuff and some shopping channels but for how long? [/quote]

all the ITV and Ch4 are due to go over (allegedly) to the new sat tonight. [:-))]

[quote user="HoneySuckleDreams"]Anyway, I've been looking at bigger dishes, 130/140cm. Does anyone have a supplier they have used ? I have found steel, aluminium and epoxy dishes. Offset and otherwise. What seems to be best ? I was hoping to still get it onto the roof, so aluminium would be best

 I've found these guys http://www.2galli.fr/boutique/liste_produits.cfm?type=30&code_lg=lg_fr but they seem expensive[/quote]seems reasonable to me.

[Danny]

[quote user="Martin963"]

That's why I find Linux so frustrating.  A quick internet search shows that I'm not the only one who can't turn off Firefox auto updates.

Grrrr.

[/quote]

Is your Linux version Ubuntu, Martin?

If so, the easy (i.e. non geeky) update is via the inbuilt Ubuntu update which will give the updated versions that are adapted/approved/organised by the developers. They don't seem to want to allow the user such easy choices. You may have found this already.

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/968938

Many Linux distros, including Ubuntu, "build" their own version of

Firefox and change key settings in their build of Firefox to use their

own "Package Manager" servers. As philipp mentioned, the prefs are gone

from the Firefox Advanced dialog - because Ubuntu handles their own

Firefox updates and use their own preference settings in the operating

system for all installed programs that were installed by default or

installed thru the Package Manager.

You can uninstall the Ubuntu version and install normal 'vanilla' Firefox by being slightly more geeky [;-)]

Danny

[PaulT]

An interesting article:

http://www.a516digital.com/2014/02/special-what-changed-in-european.html

[AnOther]

The information about the lobes is interesting but is not the complete story as no antenna radiation pattern is ever that precisely formed and there will always be odd spurious lobes some of which might allow reception but in very small avenues perhaps as narrow as a handful of km.

Unfortunately without surveying the entire country there is no way to determine if or where those spurious emissions might be receivable.

[HoneySuckleDreams]

looking at that we are going to need a 1.5m dish... damn... there goes the pension pot

 

 

[Martin963]

[quote user="Martin963"]

But it may well be that ITV and ch 4 are gone by tomorrow morning. 

[/quote]

As indeed they have,  at least if one's dish isn't up to the job.  

[Martin963]

Would someone mind please checking a Sky box and telling me what frequency the default transponder is now on..?

Thanks.