Astra 2E/2F Technical Thread

[Martin963]

I don't think an amp would help.   Can you even get one for satellite?    Generally amps only help with very long cable runs,  if the signal "isn't there" at the antenna an amp often actually makes things worse.

The equivalent for DSat is to get a more sensitive LNB,  and/or increase the size of the dish.

Don't know the intricacies of planning laws,  I only have just the four dishes on the barn wall (although two are on ground poles so maybe they don't count).   Would anyone be able to see what you're proposing to do.  If not I wouldn't worry.

[Jako]

No, a signal amplifier will amplify both the noise and the signal. That might only help in case of a very long cable (>50 meter) , but the amplifier in the current LNB's is already very strong (>60 dB) .

There is only one solution to improve the signal: a bigger dish.

Up to 1 meter is ok, no permission needed, unless you are in some protected zone.

[PaulT]

Thanks for the relies re amplifier.

As regards permission, we are off the beaten track so cannot envisage problems without permission.

[val douest]

We are 35 kms north of Tarbes in Hautes Pyrénées, latitude 43.5 deg N. This morning we lost all BBC channels on an 80cm dish and a dual LNB about 6 years old, using a Topfield TF4000PVR Plus satellite box.

This is much as expected, so a little while ago I installed a 1.2 X 1.3 metre dish, using an LNB which came with the 80cm dish and a Grundig Sky Digibox connected by about 25 metres of 17VATC cable. This morning it gives 80% signal and 80% quality. All BBC channels are fine, and C5 SD, 5* etc are also fine. If I use an old Amstrad Sky digibox the signal is 70% and quality is 90%; obviously some difference between the decoders, but I am not sure how significant that is at those levels since there is no noticeable difference in channel reception between the two boxes.

From what I have read on the internet, changing to a better LNB and more recent satellite decoder might help a bit, but a larger dish is the recommended solution. The dish is rather an eyesore, but fortunately I have been able to set it up out of sight in our garden at ground level. It was supplied by a french company; if you would like full details please pm me.

[Martin963]

That's very useful val douest.

With regard to signal and quality,  there is rare agreement between different makes and models of receiver.   For example my Metronic Fransat box is hopelessly optimistic and gives quality readings of 95% and above even when the signal is about to fall off the edge.  Whereas my Aston Fransat HD box is quite conservative,  and still just about decodes Irish TV on Ka band when the quality is down to 15%.   Even on a cracking signal it only acknowledges 55 - 60% .  My other boxes lie somewhere between these two extremes. 

Of course for setting up a dish a conservative meter is more useful - the Fransat Metronic is hopeless as a sat finder.

[Antonia]

Yes at one of the local DIY stores. It's a Sedea ( French company ). Unfortunately it was a few years ago and a quick look on their website shows they only make up to 65cm now. I have to say we've chopped and changed kit a number of times since moving to France and the biggest improvement by far was replacing the LNB. The Inverto really made a difference.

( sorry that was a reply to Guardian - I obviously haven't got the hang of the quote function! )

[Daft Doctor]

We are in the Alps just south of Geneva.  All channels available with 60cm dish.  Signal strength seems to be at least 70% on both inputs and 70-90% quality.  We did however have a loss of signal on Saturday evening but it was snowing hard.  Moving to new house soon, would an upgrade to an 80cm dish make the signal more weather or atmospheric conditions proof?   

[crabtree]

Slight change here but still receive BBC1HD & BBC2HD, 80cm dish, 24260. Signal and quality varies between 85% - 100% on 3 tuners (Foxsat HDR 2 tuners and Foxsat HD)

For

BBC HD, try BBC Wales HD or BBC Scotland HD, and BBC News HD. They are

staying on Astra 2F, so if you could get them yesterday, you can still

get them.

[HoneySuckleDreams]

a few km's east of Tarbes and we've lost all BBC channels apart from CBBC

we have a 1m dish connected to both a Humax and Slybox

[Martin963]

HSD - so you've still got BBC 1 and 2 Northern Ireland and some BBC 1 English regions,  and BBC News....?

[Martin963]

Just seen another report of a 45 cm dish that used to work around Bordeaux but now doesn't - although 70 cms is OK.

I don't think my "magic line" was much misplaced for the majority of typical installation situations.

[Wils]

Not being a very techie tech (hope I'm still allowed here) it appears that BBC1 HD Scotland and Wales are still on 2F. Now it seems their channel number is 101 on Sky, same as all the others. If this is the case I assume you could change the 'default' BBC 1 setting on a sky box to go to one of these....no? If so how do you do it?

[Quillan]

If it helps I went to the high numbers for BBC1 and 2 then worked through them, they all give the same result as channels 101 and 102. I think what the BBC website said is correct that all channels have moved. Some are however marginally better than others but only just which may explain why people are getting slightly better results in the high number channels.

[Martin963]

[quote user="Wils"]Not being a very techie tech (hope I'm still allowed here) it appears that BBC1 HD Scotland and Wales are still on 2F. Now it seems their channel number is 101 on Sky, same as all the others. If this is the case I assume you could change the 'default' BBC 1 setting on a sky box to go to one of these....no? If so how do you do it?[/quote]

Sadly I don't think you can.  Problem is that your default BBC 1 is determined by your Sky card,  and is writ in stone when you apply for the box and card - ie the post code for your "official" address.

I don't have a Sky HD box but on the SD boxes you can get at the other regional BBC 1 channels around the 941 onwards (someone correct me please,  the Sky SD box I have is 700 miles away!).

I believe Sky even make it difficult to add some HD channels as "other channels" as they don't allow you to select a symbol rate of 23000 kbps - but again someone with a Sky HD box can confirm or contradict me on that one!

But I think - as you say - that the BBC channels already on 2F will stay there.

In practice it probably will make little difference - 2F and 2E are twins and whilst the odd fringe spots may be different it's not intentional and more down to the vagaries of RF propagation and beam shaping than something to be relied on as a game-changer.

And it's all right Wils,  we need less techie people to ask the questions that we don't think of ourselves!

[Martin963]

Yes Quillan,  I suspect that CBeebies report is down to the fact that 10818 MHz happens to  just get past the digital cliff at HSD's set up.   And that being the case it suggests that a dish one size bigger will get their reception back,  although I'd go for two sizes bigger if space and finance allows...

[Jako]

We know nothing about the longer term effects yet. Reception of 2F has proven to be very unstable outside the footprint, 2E will have the same problem. And SES are supposed to be able to finetune the 2E footprint in-orbit.

If the current signal is to low, the only thing certain is that the current dish is too small, but nothing is known yet regarding the necessary minimum dish size.

[PaulT]

Jako

 

Similar question perhaps to how long is a piece of string......how long do you think it will be until everything is finlised

[Jako]

To be (almost) 100% certain: a full season, one year.

[Quillan]

Same subject but slightly different. I noticed two things today. Firstly that Astra 2G will not be launched till Q2 rather than March. Secondly the UK spot beam is the same as 2E and 2F. Any ideas what this satellite will be used for specifically i.e. will it transmit any UK TV channels and how will it effect us?

[crabtree]

Rumour is that ITV and Channel 4 are changing overnight tonight.

[Gardian]

First of all, a big thank you to Martin, Jako et al who have done their utmost to keep everybody informed and to generally help out.

I'm in no way a 'techie', but trying to pick the bones out of all this, the solution seems to be simple (I hope!!) and that is to have a bigger dish installed. Am currently pursuing that.

My question is this.  I can understand that the 'old' satellite needed to be replaced - presumably its a bit like your 10yo car, something has to be done sooner rather than later. What I don't understand is why the 'footprint' needed to be smaller than it was. Surely it can't have been just in order to maximise reception quality in the UK? 

Tens, if not hundreds of 000's of French & Iberian residents now face inconvenience and expense ............... for what?  

    

[Daft Doctor]

Hi, can either Martin or Jako help me with my question earlier in the thread.  If I have decent signal strength and quality on all channels with a 60cm dish, would an 80cm dish make the signal significantly more stable in bad weather or adverse atmospheric conditions?  Instinct says yes it would, but my instinct isn't always right!  Many thanks  [:)]

[Quillan]

[quote user="Gardian"]

First of all, a big thank you to Martin, Jako et al who have done their utmost to keep everybody informed and to generally help out.

I'm in no way a 'techie', but trying to pick the bones out of all this, the solution seems to be simple (I hope!!) and that is to have a bigger dish installed. Am currently pursuing that.

My question is this.  I can understand that the 'old' satellite needed to be replaced - presumably its a bit like your 10yo car, something has to be done sooner rather than later. What I don't understand is why the 'footprint' needed to be smaller than it was. Surely it can't have been just in order to maximise reception quality in the UK? 

Tens, if not hundreds of 000's of French & Iberian residents now face inconvenience and expense ............... for what?  

[/quote]

Simple and quote directly "Generally the new transponder will improve reception in the South East of England, the north eastern coast of East Anglia, the North East of Scotland and the Shetland Isles.".

[crabtree]

[quote user="Gardian"]

First of all, a big thank you to Martin, Jako et al who have done their utmost to keep everybody informed and to generally help out.

I'm in no way a 'techie', but trying to pick the bones out of all this, the solution seems to be simple (I hope!!) and that is to have a bigger dish installed. Am currently pursuing that.

My question is this.  I can understand that the 'old' satellite needed to be replaced - presumably its a bit like your 10yo car, something has to be done sooner rather than later. What I don't understand is why the 'footprint' needed to be smaller than it was. Surely it can't have been just in order to maximise reception quality in the UK? 

Tens, if not hundreds of 000's of French & Iberian residents now face inconvenience and expense ............... for what?  

    

[/quote]

The BBC, ITV, C4, C5 only have rights to transmit programmes to the UK. They therefore need the ability to have a UK spot beam from a satellite.

They have no need to worry about oversee viewers, so it is just good fortune if you can receive UK TV from France (or elsewhere!).

[Jako]

[quote user="Daft Doctor"]Hi, can either Martin or Jako help me with my question earlier in the thread.  If I have decent signal strength and quality on all channels with a 60cm dish, would an 80cm dish make the signal significantly more stable in bad weather or adverse atmospheric conditions?  Instinct says yes it would, but my instinct isn't always right!  Many thanks  [:)][/quote]

Yes, but what we do not yet know is whether 80 cm will be enough because reception of Astra2E outside the spotbeam is not stable over time.

Having a decent signal now is no guarantee the signal will be decent in three months from today under the same conditions.