It makes me mad

[Teamedup]

LOL the most sensible swiss do not use 'soixante-dix', 'quatre-vingt' or ' quatre-vingt-dix' etc etc and neither do the belgians and I would hope that those from Luxembourg would also be so wise.  I can't see the Monacans being so sensible about this though and as it is a while since I have been and cannot remember.

[Jc]

Twice in France I have been served CHIPS(big English style) not frites;they had a different name which I cannot remember nor can I remember where they were served.Can anyone help?A French or English teacher,possibly.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Teamedup"]LOL the most sensible swiss do not use

'soixante-dix', 'quatre-vingt' or ' quatre-vingt-dix' etc etc and

neither do the belgians and I would hope that those from Luxembourg

would also be so wise.  I can't see the Monacans being so sensible

about this though and as it is a while since I have been and cannot

remember.[/quote]

Are the Swiss particularly "sensible" because they use a different

counting system? I thought they did it mostly to make it clear that

they were NOT French. The French spoken in Luxembourg, to the best of

my recollection, is "high" French as it is mostly used as an

administrative language. Luxembourgish may have some French in it

somewhere though; it is rather difficult to tell.

[Pangur]

Apparently the bizarre French counting systems is a throwback from the Celts who had a different system of counting to Roman decimalisation.  So soixante-dix can be seen as an homage to ancient history perhaps....think of Asterisk as you add your 15 onto the base [:D] The Swiss use lots of different words (even ordering a coffee or a beer seems to require a different vocabulary) and as Jond said, I  reckon a lot of it is just a way of making sure no-one thinks they're French. 

Of course different countries will have different vocabs depending on the different influences on the language around them.  My English is influenced in parts by Gaelic.  There are words the Irish use when speaking English that British people don't understand (a press is a cupboard, a hotpress is an airing cupboard...) and we pronounce the same words a little differently, based on the Gaelic alphabet.  Ask an Irish person to say E.R.  You'll think we're talking about Winnie the Pooh.

It's not wrong, it's our version of English.  Languages need to evolve and adapt to local usage or they die.  RP and the Queen's English is a particulary British thing - English is no longer a language solely for the British and given the numbers of non-Brits writing, speaking  and adapting the language, the British can no longer expect to control its usuage.  British-English is just another dialect now[;)]

 

[Jc]

Just remember that "English" has a vocabulary  about 5 times that of French and is the second most common language in the world-French is the fourth.

[Teamedup]

I have heard so many tales of how the french ended up with their particular counting system. Another was the aristos using these terms and the rabble mimicking them. 

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Jc"]Just remember that "English" has a vocabulary 

about 5 times that of French and is the second most common language in

the world-French is the fourth.[/quote]

Does English not contain the terms "three score and ten" and even "four score?" A common root, perhaps.

JC - your point is a valid one, though I'd question whether the 

extent of the vocabulary was really any longer relevent. I read

somewhere this last  summer (perhaps even on this august forum)

that between 1970 and 2000 the average vocabulary of the British had

fallen from about 10,000 words to something around 7,500, and that

almost 50% of the population get by on less than 5000 words. So only a

tiny fraction of the available (two-or-so million?) recognised English

words get much of an outing. Charabanc, for example. (Boom, Boom!)

It would be easy to blame this on a decline in standards of eductaion

(though I myself would not make such an assertion - it has been made

quite clear  to me by educational professionals that my having had

an education in no way qualifies me to hold an opinion on the subject),

though I rather suspect that this, too, is simply an evolution. Or a

devolution. I'm not quite sure which.

[Russethouse]

It's not wrong, it's our version of English.  Languages need to evolve and adapt to local usage or they die.  RP and the Queen's English is a particulary British thing - English is no longer a language solely for the British and given the numbers of non-Brits writing, speaking  and adapting the language, the British can no longer expect to control its usuage.  British-English is just another dialect now

French is not allowed to 'evolve and adapt' there is a an 'acadamie' to protect it.

British - English (which does evolve and adapt) is not just another dialect, surely its the 'root' language, all be it a hybrid with many different influences itself.

[Pangur]

There was meant to be a wink after my dialect comment btw... 

Does the Acadamie rule on language matters in Quebec or West African francophone countries?  Or have their languages evolved in the same way that American English has?

 

[SaligoBay]

[quote user="Pangur"]

Does the Acadamie rule on language matters in Quebec or West African francophone countries?  Or have their languages evolved in the same way that American English has?

[/quote]

Even in France the language changes, in spite of the Académie's Canute-like efforts to keep it stagnant.   I have the impression that they are regarded with a tiny bit of scepticism, as people inflated with an exaggerated sense of their own intellectual importance.

Where would they stop anyway?   Pizza, kebab, couscous, black, stop, break?   Got to keep up with the times!

[Tourangelle]

[quote user="Pangur"]

There was meant to be a wink after my dialect comment btw... 

Does the Acadamie rule on language matters in Quebec or West African

francophone countries?  Or have their languages evolved in the

same way that American English has?

 

[/quote]

Try listening to Canadian radio on the net, or watching a French

Canadian film (I'd recommend La Grande Séduction) it sounds very

different and the vocabularly is not the same.  The first time I

heard it I found it a very odd experience. 

Anyway, between what the académie thinks and what happens, there is a

gulf.  It would be wrong to say that English evolves and French is

a static language in France, it has altered a great deal over time,

especially in terms of its grammar.

Je cause la France, moi!

[Hoddy]

"RP and the Queen's English is a particulary British thing - "

..... and, of course, RP and the Queen's English are not necessarily the same thing.

Hoddy

[The Riff-Raff Element]

I understood that the point that Cnut / Cnute / Canute was making was

that he couldn't turn back the sea even if his fawning courtiers said

that he could. He sat on the beach and got wet to prove that he was

inferior to God. Frankly a silly thing for a king to do in my view (it

hardly inspires awe, does it?), and surely not the ethos of the

Académie Français who seem very much to know their place in the grand

scheme of things and it isn't sitting in a deckchair with soggy

tootsies.

[Dick Smith]

Not silly at all. He put aside his crown for good, saying that only the king that sat in heaven was worthy of a crown, and that he (Cnut) was just a man. A good message (and very Nordic, of course).

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Dicksmith"]Not silly at all. He put aside his crown for

good, saying that only the king that sat in heaven was worthy of a

crown, and that he (Cnut) was just a man. A good message (and very

Nordic, of course).[/quote]

OK - as a self-effacing act of piety, I don't think one could hold a

candle to dear old Cnut / Canut / Canute. I was thinking more of his

actions in terms of career moves for kings in general. Public displays

of humility followed but actual action are not the hallmarks of

successful monachy as a rule. Imagine if this sort of thing went on in

politics today! We'd have....erm...oh......better government, World

peace, an end to poverty, none of which would do at all.

[D]

[battypuss1]

Reminds me of when my daughter was chucked out of English too; she corrected the teacher by telling her that it wasn't "Mr X goes out of prison". That argument lasted months....

[Viv]

Not quite the same but the current advert for Kris-Proll drives me mad!

[battypuss1]

[quote user="Jc"]Twice in France I have been served CHIPS(big English style) not frites;they had a different name which I cannot remember nor can I remember where they were served.Can anyone help?A French or English teacher,possibly.[/quote]

 

They are called 'Pont Neuf', though why a bridge in Paris would have a bearing on the shape/size of chips is beyound me!

[Dick Smith]

Like the way Eccles Cakes don't look like Peter Sellers?

[Val_2]

That d**m teacher has raised my blood pressure again this past week. He deducted two points off my son's contrôle for refusing to believe that there is such a product as Marmite. The kids had to write an essay on something they like but cannot easily obtain in France, so my son who loves Marmite and Vegemite wrote about that. Even the others had heard of it and backed him up. I felt like going up there and throwing the b****y jar at this wally of a teacher. He also corrected the class for writing the word jam instead of jelly in a passage.

[Sevenup]

I think that us Brits should just get used to Americanised English. The fact that the French are having to accept English in any form should indicate to us that we should accept changes as well. It is worth learning all the differences anyway.

On the subject of languages. I have long been searching for a good dictionary for finding out the meaning of French words. I have always found that the bilingual dictionaries don't have all the French words that I have found written in French documents.

I am thinking that maybe I should purchase a good French Dictionary and simply read through the French descriptions. My French is not that good but at least it may enable me to find the words.

Can anyone suggest a really good French (France) Dictionary.

[Russethouse]

I think that us Brits should just get used to Americanised English.

  [:D] Aaaaaah ! Wash your mouth out with soap ! [:D]

Firstly, what is the name of this lesson ? English, not American !

I think this teacher needs to understand and accept that there are wide coloquial differences between the two that are both correct, perhaps he'd like to come to the UK, ( possibly Boots  [;)]) and ask for a fanny pack [;)]

Tongue firmly in cheek !

PS Val, I think there are several sites that explain the differences between English and 'American' Why not print out some examples and send it in, in the spirit of 'helping' this teacher ?

[Tourangelle]

Val, does your son actually have to go to English lessons, or would he

be excluded if he didn't?  If he really has to go,  I think

you should go and see this teacher, with your son and point out that

the curriculum in no way favours American English over British English,

and see what he says.

[Renaud]

A couple of years ago a Spanish girl at my daughter's school got an F in her Spanish GCSE. (She had been in the UK since she was 11 and speaks Spanish at home).

[Tourangelle]

I've heard of cases like that too, Renaud, but often it is because

there is a technique to the exam, and if you answer too well, then you

miss the point.  It does seem daft.  I suppose it is in order

to avoid that that Val's son is doing English[:(]