Using a U.K. registered vehicle in France

[Bob T]

You are right Coops, might be better for some if they stay in the UK.

[mint]

On the plus side, they do help you with filling in the application form at the l'Hotel des Impots and, telling you what the fiscale puissance should be and, as long as you have your credit card handy, you can pay them and they'll give you the coveted carte grise!

Coops, I don't want anyone to think that it's harder than it actually is![:)]

[Sunday Driver]

[quote user="bigears"]

hi

So you have to be resident in the uk (whatever that means if it doesn't mean tax resident) to be able to insure a uk registered car in thr uk.   

According to Quillan's detailed research, UK insurance policies are only available to UK residents - so, if you have a UK address that you occupy, then essentially, you will be using the UK registered car in the UK like any other UK resident insured person.  Remember, the UK address/postcode you provide is part of the insurer's risk assessment which determines the acceptability of your proposal and the premium they will charge you.

I can never remember being asked that direct question.  Is this driven by a european law? 

It's driven by the terms and conditions that the insurer applies to the contract. 

Can a uk resident (tax resident?) have a french registered car insured in france for use at their villa (maison secondaire)?  You cannot win if the answer is no.

If they have a valid French address, then yes.  Again, they will be using the French registered car in France like any other French resident insured person.

[/quote]

Let's try not to make this more complicated than it actually is.....[;-)]

 

[bigears]

hi

bob I have a beautiful german, but french registered transit westfalia euroline and a suzuki burgman quatre cent.  I will now buy as a uk resident  a uk registered small car to keep in the uk.  It looks to me as its the uk that is out of step with the rest of the eu,  The vine is now getting the better of me. 

[woolybanana]

Sunday Driver, your knowledge of vehicles, the system and all points west is impressive. But you forgot the people involved and their devious minds.

[woolybanana]

Well Bigears, I also have a set of Belgian transferrable plates which I use when................ Nahhhhhh, I cant. And the four driving licences. Nahhhhhhh, I can't.

And the Triumph Slag, nahhhhhhhhhhhh, I can't.

[bigears]

hi

wolybanana are you a beautiful younmg female?

 

 

[Will]

And what about those who do it the other way round?

That is to say, the British residents who use their French holiday home address to buy and register a car in France, then use it at home to avoid road fund licence etc.

[woolybanana]

I can be. Depends who is asking. Hmmmm, big ears eh!!!

[woolybanana]

Now would anyone do that Will? I never thought of it. You mean Mr. Blobby's mate, what is his name? Shameless, just shameless.

[bigears]

hi again

I hope you are not leading me on woolybanana, I do have bigears, as implied by my pseudonym, I must admitt that now, due to the  vino I have now lost the thread and now will retire gracefully.

[woolybanana]

Good heavens, a Brit that drinks and posts. How shockin. Not a good thread anyway.

[oakbri]

I have read this thread from the start twice and I am now more confused and my brain hurts.

Everyone keeps saying you must be a UK resident to have UK insurance on a UK car and French insurance for your French car at your French holiday home. That much is clear.

What about those of us who are not UK residents. I have a French registered car all legal and spend 95% of my time here. I also have a second home in the UK. I want a car there. Surely it's not illegal to have a UK registered car, all taxed tested and insured in the UK ???? I know European law is quite backward at the best of times but there must be a legal way to have a locally registered car at any home you may own, wherever it may be???

SD whats the answer?

[cooperlola]

Oakbri, Cathy had it about right, IMO.  If your UK reg' car spends most of its time in the UK, and is tied correctly to a UK address then I'm sure you have no problem.  In the UK, the fundamental issue is whether you insurance company will cover you for any accidents.  If they are happy, and are appraised of all the facts and they can in no way question the veracity of the information you have given them, then you're OK.  Check with your insurer if in any doubt, and read the details of your policy.

[oakbri]

Thanks Cooperlola

Thats what I thought. A UK car that lives permanently at you UK house is OK as long as your insurer knows you are a non UK resident. I got confused because I kept reading you can't insure a UK car if you are a non resident. There are thousands of non UK residents with places in the UK with cars registered, taxed and insured there, they can't all be breaking the law. It seemed to be getting over complicated.

 

[Quillan]

Not being a resident of the UK is not breaking the law.

What is breaking the law is not having valid car insurance.

The companies I looked at on the web all clearly stated that you must be UK resident to have their insurance. If you take insurance from them and are not resident then the insurance is not valid therefore you are driving a car with no insurance which is against the law.

If you have a UK address and keep a car there for your own use within the UK I would strongly recommend that you ask the insurance company if they will insure you as a non resident and explain the situation. If they say OK then ask for a letter from them stating this and you will be happy to insure with them. Don't spend a penny until you get the letter. I say this because you will probably talk to somebody on the phone who knows nothing about what they are selling and/or is not empowered to make such a decision. In the unlikely event that you have an accident you may discover they won't actually pay out. They may also inform the police that you were driving with no insurance. If you have the letter you can wave that in front of them.

[bigears]

hi

It has taken me by surprise but you cannot insure a uk reg car via a mainstream insurance provider in the uk unless you are resident in the uk.  Here in france it is different.  No wonder people are driving around the uk in foreign reged vehicles.  The more I learn about things the more I am thankful my wife stopped us from becoming resident in france. I will in all probability be buying a car to keep in the uk for use in the time we spend there. 

[Quillan]

I personally think it is something to do with legal argument and by being resident in the UK there can be no way out of you being covered by UK law and that's what they are protecting themselves against. Perhaps it's the bit at the bottom that says the insurance is written to comply with UK law and that all litigation is carried out under UK law. To be honest I don't really know but that's the only thing I can think of and it would seem logical.

[woolybanana]

Sounds rather like a fiddle to me Quillan

[AnOther]

[quote user="bigears"]I am thankful my wife stopped us from becoming resident in france.[/quote]By what means or measure do you achieve, (or think you achieve) that I wonder?

Residency is not a question of choice but one of fact determined by circumstance.

oakbri:

Sorry but I fail to see your continued confusion, unless you think you fall into the same optional residency camp as bigears that is [8-)]

[quote user="oakbri"]Everyone keeps saying you must be a UK resident to have UK insurance on a UK car and French insurance for your French car at your French holiday home. That much is clear.[/quote]Correct.

You then say

[quote user="oakbri"]I also have a second home in the UK. I want a car there. Surely it's not illegal to have a UK registered car, all taxed tested and insured in the UK ???? [/quote]No, but you acknowledge that you know what the rules for that are.

Obviously we don't know your specific personal circumstances but if you do indeed spend 95% of the time in France it's hard to see how you would not be considered resident here albeit "under the radar" perhaps ?

That said, you do have a UK home so presumably are on the Electoral Roll etc. and prima facia possibly eligible for UK insurance but it all hinges on your residency (fact not option) and as been said countless times, if in doubt ask you insurance company, it really is that simple.

I suspect the truth is that many are afraid to do this because they secretly know what the answer will be which is why this question just runs and runs !

[bigears]

hi again

Ernie we choose where we are resident by our actions, and at the moment we have chosen to be uk resident.  It was my wife who held me back an said she wanted to keep our main residence in the uk and I am grateful for that as we would now be halfway through an e106.  I'm sure if we wish to, in the future, say when my wife is legible for an e121, convince the french tax people that.we are french resident.  We are totally legal on both sides of the channel and we can prove it.

[AnOther]

Clearly we aren't going to agree on this one bigears so I can but reiterate what I and others have said which is, ask your UK insurance company.

Actually I'll go further and say that under the fundamental principal of "utmost faith", however sure you are there isn't any irregularity in your insurance position, now you are aware that there MAY be or have the slightest doubt, you have a duty to disclose it. Don't forget that you entered this topic with an admission that the UK residency requirement had taken you by surprise.

It's only a phone call away and you owe it to yourself (and others!) to ensure that you are properly insured [:)] 

If you are so certain of your ground then you have nothing to lose and I'm sure others here would benefit from the definitive information.

Shall we look forward to you reporting back then [;-)]

[oakbri]

 

Ernie

I never said I wasn't a French resident. I spend most of my time here, own a home here, pay tax here, possess a Carte D Sejour etc. etc. I am most definitely a French resident. I wish people would read posts and stop making assumptions.

I had read on this post that you CANNOT insure a car in the UK inless you are a UK resident - clearly wrong as there are thousands of NON UK residents from all over the world with secondary homes in the UK with fully legal cars there.

I have just found an article in an Enlish language newspaper here in France and it talks about this exact subject and says " Spokesman for the Association of British Insurers stated that no insurance firm is obliged to give any individual cover, including someone living abroad. There was also no EU directive to even use a British Insurance firm. The only requirement is that you use an insurer who has official authorisation to do business in the UK." I wish I saw this article yesterday.

So that seems to clear it up. It is comforting for the many others who, like me have a secondary home in the UK, to know we can legally insure a second car there. It is even better to know we could, if they are authorised, use our current French insurers, as most companies do multi policy discounts.

[cooperlola]

Seems logical to me, in your specific case Oakbri.  As I see it, your UK home is, in effect, your holiday home, at which you have a vehicle which is kept in the country, and registered there.  If you could not ligitimately insure it there, then I could foresee the totally batty situation, whereby you would have to re-register it in France (requiring type compliance - including headlights fit for continental roads), insure it here, but keep it in the UK.  Surely mad whichever way you look at it.  As long as your insurance company is happy I don't see what the fuss is about in your case!

Anybody who is quite clearly resident here but deciding not to be well....  It's not a personal decision, but based on your length of stay in each country.  It is possible to pick and chose but only by physically remaining in the country you chose to be resident in, for more than half of every year.  Simple really, if you're in the UK more than you are in France, you're a UK resident for that year.  Vice versa, and you're a French resident, and have been from the day of your arrival.  Not much escaping from that really.

[oakbri]

It does look logical to me too! However I have read several times people making the statement that you CANNOT insure a UK car if you are a NON UK resident. Utter rubbish.

I think the reason people keep asking the same question is because people missread the original post, or misunderstand it and post incorrect information. It's quite simple. If you are a French resident, then here in France you need a French registered car with a CT and insurance. If you have a holiday home in the UK then over there you need a UK registered car, with MOT, tax disc and insurance which is for non-residents. I don't see where the confusion comes from !!!!

Otherwise you would always be illegal in the UK, as you could not insure a UK registered car, and taking a French car there permanently is just as illegal as having a UK plated car here. Which is obviously rediculous.