Priorité à droite

[Phil & Pat]

Safety questions aside, has anyone ever calculated the fuel savings that could be achieved if large numbers of vehicles were not obliged to slow down in preparation to give priority at a junction, then accelerate away again, all because another vehicle might have been approaching from the right but hidden by hedges, trees, walls or a building? 

Compared of course to all those same vehicles maintaining a constant speed, and just the occasional vehicle approaching from the right having to slow down and then accelerate into the traffic stream.

[Aly]

rabbit says

Of course they are safe. Those who have accidents at them have generaly failed to notice them and not given way as they should. This is not the fault of the junction, but solely the fault of the driver, either through poor observation or lack of understanding.

The integration comment was aimed at those who live here and have called for its abolition, simply because they dont like or understand it.

I suggest you have a look at the hundreds of French drivers forums ( presumably they are sufficiently integrated for you being French) you will see how many people want a change in the code.

[dave21478]

And?

Have a look on any uk motoring forum and you will find hundreds of people moaning about something or other, wanting it changed.

I fail to see any relevance at all in your comment.

People on THIS thread are expressing their views, and my comments have been perfecty clear regarding my thoughts on both the junctions concerned and the attitudes of those who dont like them.

[Aly]

 you said 'and anyone who calls for it to be abolished because they dont like or

understand it needs to look long and hard at their attitude to

integration.'

You implied that it was only British expats (the non integrated as you put it ) who were experiencing problems with PAD. My point is that is not the case.

Many French people want change. The rules have actually changed over the years but that change has been slow.

 

[BJSLIV]

not in the case cited where the road was dual carriageway

In a densely populated area in the outskirts of Lyons.

http://http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Genas&rls=com.microsoft:en-gb:IE-ContextMenu&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGIT_en-GB&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wl

It's always safest to assume that PaD will apply in built up areas.

Does anyone remember the old days when one had to go through the heart of Le Havre to reach the original ferry terminal? When Le Havre was rebuilt after the war it was laid out on a grid basis together with one way streets. That meant that every other junction was PaD. Very exciting if you were late for the ferry......

 

 

[Aly]

I give up!  I just wanted to warn people to be aware of the issue. Instead the discussion has been hijacked by grumpy old men!

[Bugsy]

Not everyone Aly, not everyone. XX

[allanb]

[quote user="AnOther"]The principle was consolidated in the 1968 Vienna Convention on Road Traffic

however I would venture to say that things have moved on somewhat since

then and I can't see that, on the open road at least, it really has any place in terms of modern traffic management other than as a source of confusion and potential trauma. An over simplification too surely because even in France (and other

countries, Germany and Holland to name but two) priority IS on the 'main

road' unless indicated otherwise.[/quote]It's good that you've heard of the Vienna Convention, but you are still misinformed.  In both Germany and Holland (and many other countries) the rule is exactly as it is in France; in the absence of signs to the contrary, traffic from the right has priority.  It's the UK that's out of step here.

Unfortunately there are very many articles written by "experts" that encourage this misunderstanding.  There's even one in the "Expert Advice and Tips" at the beginning of this forum, which includes the following piece of dangerous half-truth:

In many built up areas of France, the rule still exists where you give priority to traffic coming from the right. This is known as ‘Priorité à Droite’ and should be followed at all times. The only time you would ignore this rule is if there is a yellow diamond which shows that you have priority at that time.

This "expert" doesn't understand the rule, and anyway seems to think that it applies only in built-up areas.  He does not mention priority rules in Germany or the Netherlands, where they are equally different from the UK and surely equally important.  When he gets round to Spain, he writes this remarkable piece of nonsense:

Give way to the left unless otherwise signed...  Totally wrong.

Some time ago I suggested to our Forum Admin that this article should be either corrected or removed, but it's still there. 

End of rant.

Here are three calm and objective observations about priorité à droite:

(1) In any complex road system, there has to be a default rule about priority: if there's no sign, who gives way?

(2) There are different possibilities, e.g. the US rule (he who arrives first goes first) but priority to the right - assuming we drive on the right - is as good a rule as any.

(3) Even if you accept the rule, it needs to be applied intelligently, and there are two ways in which European practice needs to be improved: (a) there are some intersections where it is difficult or impossible to see a vehicle approaching from the right, and (b) there are some where one road carries far more traffic than the other and should be given priority.  In both cases, I think the local authority should have responsibility for placing priority signs.

I strongly dispute the British idea that it's obvious which is the "main" road - especially at night.  It isn't.

[NormanH]

[quote user="Aly"]

I give up!  I just wanted to warn people to be aware of the issue. Instead the discussion has been hijacked by grumpy old men!

[/quote]

you mean that you didn't manage to convince people?

Not at all the same thing [:)]

[Scooby]

I think allanb summed up in (3) why the objectors have grounds to say PaD is flawed.... So not at all wasted Aly and it's flagged up a peculiar oddity that less frequent visitors to France may not have been aware of - so thank you.

[NormanH]

Can anyone justify why British drivers, inexperienced in driving on the right, and ignorant of the finer points of the 'Code' are allowed to be let loose on French roads, either as visitors, or residents who have never passed a test here?

[Scooby]

It's called the EU Norman.  It's why lunatic Spanish and Portugese drivers are allowed to be let loose on UK motorways causing pileups

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7878605.stm

Ps - I have been driving on european roads as a 'visitor' for 26 years now without an accident..so we're not all so bad.

[DerekJ]

[quote user="NormanH"]Can anyone justify why British drivers, inexperienced in driving on the right, and ignorant of the finer points of the 'Code' are allowed to be let loose on French roads, either as visitors, or residents who have never passed a test here?

[/quote]

You sound like a real bundle of fun.

[NormanH]

What has being " real bundle of fun" got to do with road safety?

[DerekJ]

Nothing but your whole attitude is thoroughly unpleasant and unnecessary. Do you speak to people like this face to face?

[Bugsy]

Of course he doesn't DJ, otherwise he'd be covered in bruises.

[Alex H]

[quote user="Bugbear"]otherwise he'd be covered in bruises.[/quote]

Perhaps he is...........[Www]

[Bugsy]

[IMG]http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p211/Bugbear2/Joke.jpg[/IMG]

Is this him, by any chance?

[AnOther]

You really need to get out more BB [:D][:D][:D]