Priority a droite

[nick16]

I know this has been talked about before, but I can't still quite understand the ground rules. Sometimes it would appear that the priority is given to more a less a farm track. On occaisions that cars do arrive from the right, I have yet to see any French car give way to the vehicle with the 'priority'. I have yet to see a vehicle that has priority pull  out. They always wait for oncoming traffic to pass.

The French seem to adopt the sensible approach that the 'main' road has priority. I think that if I were to stop, I would be on the receiving end of some verbal abuse from other road users.

Am I an accident waiting to happen?

 

 

[AnOther]

There is an 8 page thread on the topic of Priorité à droite HERE

[nounours]

[quote user="nick16"]

Am I an accident waiting to happen?

[/quote]

Yes you are[:$],  Priority from the rght is there for a reason even if it is a farm track, often these roads have limited visibilty to the "main roads" hence the priority, when you see the black cross sign its up to you to exercise caution.

Of course with busier roads, sensible motorists are not going to fly out of a farm track which has priority, but legally they can and you would be 100% in the wrong if they hit you.   In many towns this is also the norm, and also applies on many roundabouts in the bigger towns, its rarely signposted except for the crossed out yellow triangle by the vilage/town name.

[cooperlola]

As you enter our fair city from the North, all the roads to the right give way, save one, which has the old black X.  Every year, during the week of the 24 hour race, at least half a dozen Brits lose the noses of their cars - often quite lovely cars at that - because they do not really believe that the PaD rule applies to them....[Www]

[Chancer]

[quote user="nick16"]

Am I an accident waiting to happen?

[/quote]

Speaking only of my area then yes, and you wont have to wait any longer than about 5 minutes either! Everybody takes the priorité

I dont even make much of an effort to look left now when taking P. à D. and on some Y junctions I dont bother at all as I am blind in the left eye.

I do however when driving on unknown roads keep an eagle eye for painted lines on roads and tracks joining from the right although these are often scrubbed out and invisible, if I see a vehicle approaching on the road/track or if the approach is obscured by trees/buildings like everyone else I slow to a crawl to be ready to stop in an instant if necessary.

[Bugsy]

[quote user="nick16"]Am I an accident waiting to happen? [/quote]

Well, if you do nothing on the approach, then Yes.

It pays to treat every junction as a potential hazard, but more so those without stop or give way lines.

Even more so when on two wheels, of course.

.

[JohnRoss]

Quite a few of these side roads join the main road at an angle for that reason we are told. Also in the days of horse drawn carriages the horses pulling the carriage would enter the main road before the carriage of course and the driver would not yet be able to see if traffic was approaching on the main road. High hedge rows? Whereas a driver on his carriage or farm cart on the main road would have a clear view and see the horses emerging and would then give way. It seems daft to keep this rule going in view of the speed of cars today and in some places and not others, asking for trouble. I have had several near misses with tractors roaring out without looking and one stroppy motorist who left it to the last minute to pull out despite being able to see me for sometime. C'est mon droit!...................JR

[Sunday Driver]

If that stroppy motorist had priorité a droite, and you were able to see him sitting there for some time, then you should have stopped to allow him to pull out.

C'est son droit.....[;-)]

 

[JohnRoss]

You are missing the point. He had been sat there for some time, why? He had plenty of time to pull out in front of me without causing me to slow down. I suspect he wanted to make the point that he thought it was his right. This mindset is madness. Regardless of whether he was in the right or not to put his life, the lives of his children in the car and his wife at risk. Quite a lot of the side roads around here have no signs which would indicate priority. To drive relying only on what you think your rights are is just plain dangerous. The whole point is this rule was designed for another era and was sensible at the time but not now!.....................................JR

[Chancer]

You say that quiet a lot of the roads aroud you have no signs which would indicate priority.

If the main road has no sign and the side road has no white line across it then the side round definitely has priorité.

In my area the young dont wait till a public holiday to set light to their old bangers if they can still be driven to the nearest  P. à D. junction during the tourist season.

I dont drive a tractor but am just as likely to pull out in front of you on a P. à D. being blind in the left eye, donc c'est mon gauche! [;-)]

[andyh4]

Sorry John, but if there was any risk, then it was you not he that caused it.  If/Since you cannot see that, I suggest you visit your local driving school and learn some advanced motoring techniques.

[Chancer]

Le priorité à droite is hardly an advanced technique but I know where you are coming from, defensive driving techniques are about avoiding accidents not who has the right of way.

All that you need to know about La priorité à droite and other French motoring regulations is contained in the Code de la Route.

[DerekJ]

It's good to read this thread as it re-emphasises the need for caution and attention to this code. As someone who isn't permanently living/driving in France it's easy to become a bit casual about it.

In my case it is something I know I need to concentrate on as it is so easy to assume UK rules/conditions.

[JohnRoss]

Oh dear oh dear a mindset shared by some others I see. If my post was in error then I apologise as I see that I missed out the word potential in front of the word risk. There was in fact no risk on this occasion as I was able to take the appropriate action because I try to drive that way though others may not, hence the risk. However the main issue is this rule is not sensible now as it once was..................................................JR  

[nick16]

Thank you to those who have responded. It obviously remains a 'prickly problem'. It means I will still approach these crossings with my heart in my mouth, both eyes open,  and wondering if I should advance with caution on seeing a vehicle approaching from the right, or just stop.  I am none the wiser.

[Chancer]

[quote user="JohnRoss"]Oh dear oh dear a mindset shared by some others I see. If my post was in error then I apologise as I see that I missed out the word potential in front of the word risk. There was in fact no risk on this occasion as I was able to take the appropriate action because I try to drive that way though others may not, hence the risk. However the main issue is this rule is not sensible now as it once was..................................................JR  [/quote]

The appropriate action on appoaching a POD is to slow to let the vehicle with priority carry on his journey without hindrance.

He is not joining your road you are joining his.

You asked why he didnt pull out staright away so as not to inconvenience you. Any self respecting French citizen would rather wait for you to slow down to allow them out, if you dont slow then they will decide what to do once you are close enough to see the department of your plaque d'immatriculation, if you are local then you may well be bien arrosée so better to let him continue unimpeded, if you are from another department or worse still another country like Paris or England you are going to get a brake test [;-)]

Why do you consider that the rule is any less sensible now?

[JohnRoss]

It is less sensible because we no longer use horses in the main to pull our carts. Priority to the right can only be expected to work safely where the driver on the major road is aware of the existence of the minor road and that such road has priority and said driver observes the rule. I would just add that the most dangerous situation is where a hidden, banks or bushes, small side road or track emerges onto a straight major road where there have been no signs and the lack of visibility of white lines or otherwise. Someone new to the area would be unaware of the danger. No reasonable speed on the major road would be low enough to avoid the potential risk of an accident................................JR

[Les]

[quote user="nick16"]Thank you to those who have responded. It obviously remains a 'prickly problem'. It means I will still approach these crossings with my heart in my mouth, both eyes open,  and wondering if I should advance with caution on seeing a vehicle approaching from the right, or just stop.  I am none the wiser.[/quote]

Check out these signs especially the 2 yellow diamond ones. You should be prepared to stop and give way, at any junction when you do not have priority.

SIGNS

[andyh4]

John

you seem to be entrenched in Anglophile views - we don't do it so it must be wrong.

 

Consider the impact and accidents caused if overnight PaD were to be abolished.  Consider also the advantage that PaD has in limiting speeds in built up areas.

 

Consider also that this is not a system only used in France:

Netherlands - priority from the Right

Belgium - ditto

Germany - ditto

Italy - ditto

Spain - getting bored yet?

 

Even the USA has a 4 way halt - a very similar concept.

 

So who is out of line?

 

Anyway irrespectve of what you think, the system is there, it isn't going to change any time soon (in fact I see places where priorities are being changed TO PaD precicely as a passive speed control) and your beefing won't change the Code de Route.

 

Learn to live with it..............................

......................... or die

[nick16]

Thank you Derf,

Yes, I am fully prepared to stop, but is the crazy Frenchman, who has been up my backside for the last 10 kilometres, also prepared to stop. I would say I drive both an English car and also  a French car, so on many occaisions I am seen as just another Frenchman. When in English cloth, I fully expect to be overtaken at any opportunity, especially blind bends and brow of hills.

[Chancer]

We have several P à D 4 way crossroads in our town, they avoid the need for traffic lights, in fact all of the lights in town switch to flashing yellow and P à D later on in the evening.

[nounours]

"It is less sensible because we no longer use horses in the main to pull our carts."

There are 65 million French people, of whom those that drive, lets say half, understand the rule, the concept and the procedure.  There are 250 000 brits in France of which a small minority think its a bad system.[:P]

"Priority to the right can only be expected to work safely where the driver on the major road is aware of the existence of the minor road  and that such road has priority and said driver observes the rule. I would just add that the most dangerous situation is where a hidden, banks or bushes, small side road or track emerges onto a straight major road where there have been no signs and the lack of visibility of white lines or otherwise. Someone new to the area would be unaware of the danger."

Surprisingly that is what the sign is for[:'(]  Same as for a tight bend etc in the UK "for the benefit of strangers".[blink]

 No reasonable speed on the major road would be low enough to avoid the risk of a potential accident........ 

Again that is what the sign is for, you could sasy the same about pedestrian crossings, but these roads are not, in my experience,  found one after the other and are in fact few and far between on "main" roads.

[Clair]

I see another refresher is required...

Road sign ahead of the junction meaning you must give way to traffic coming from the right.

Road sign ahead of the junction meaning you have priority over traffic emerging from the other road at the next junction. It does not indicate the general "priority" nature of the road and is only a punctual road sign.

 Road sign indicating you are travelling on a main road which has priority at all junctions. Repeated every kilometre in urban areas and every 5 km outside town. Not necessarily shown before each junction.

 Road sign indicating you are no longer travelling on a main road which has

priority at all junctions.

When in town, always give way to traffic coming from the right, unless otherwise indicated (at roundabout for instance).

See this previous discussion.

http://www2.securiteroutiere.gouv.fr/IMG/pdf/depliant-signalisation.pdf

[allanb]

I accept that there has to be a default rule, and I think PàD is as good as any other, in principle.  In practice, though, there is IMO at least one serious weakness in the French version, which is that it's not always clear when it applies. 

There is a footnote about unsurfaced tracks in my copy of the Code de la Route handbook*. 

The first sentence says that if you are emerging from an unsurfaced track, not open to public traffic, you must give way to all traffic on the road you are joining. So a track of that kind never has priority.  Fair enough.

But the next sentence says that if a track is open to public traffic, even if it's unsurfaced, the normal rule applies (i.e. PàD, presumably).  So anyone emerging from it has priority.

So in order to know who has priority, you have to look at the track to see whether it's unsurfaced, and if it is, you have then to find out whether it's open to public traffic.

How's that for a piece of practical advice?

I don't think there's anything wrong with the rule, but it needs to be intelligently applied.

* Les usagers sortant d'un chemin de terre, non ouvert à la circulation publique, doivent céder le passage à tous les usagers de la route abordée.  Dès lors qu'un chemin est ouvert à la circulation publique même s'il n'est pas goudronnée, les règles de priorité habituelles s'appliquent.

[Chancer]

Interesting that aggreived drivers who have been denied the courtesy of taking their priorité a droite say that it is their droit.

I notice that President Sarkozy is reminiscent of Margaret Thatcher as he repatedly talks about droits et devoirs in his speeches.

We all have a responsibility to drive safely and I believe a responsibility to be curteous to other drivers as well, in the case of Priorité à Droite one simple geste is sufficient to satisfy the both.

Unless you are driving on known territory and know that the vehicle you see aproaching from or stopped at a junction to your right does not have priority, one should give the courtesy of slowing down to either allow the other driver to take his priorité or for you to better judge whether there is a solid or dotted line across his road.

Even in known territory it is defensive and curteous driving to at least lift off and cover the brake until you make eye contact and can make the judgement that the vehicle will not pull out in front of you.

If you have ever stopped at a junction being unaware that you have priority the other driver should stop and not continue untill you pull out, in my area this is 100% adhered to and drivers unaware of Priorité à Droit are the ones that inconvenience the ones that do.