Diabetes and driving

[Quillan]

I don't know if anyone has seen this but it seems up to a million UK driving licence holders who are diabetic may loose their licence. There are loads of links currently about this on Google but trying to find a none newspaper link I found this.

http://www.iddt.org/about/living-with-diabetes/driving/

Seems France is doing a similar thing.

http://www.afd.asso.fr/diabete-en-societe/permis-de-conduire

 

[crossy67]

Thanks for the link Q, I have forwarded it to my sister who's husband is diabetic.

One big problem I can see is diabetics will just not seek medical help in the hope they can get over it them selves so there will be no record of it.  Dangerous.

[Clarkkent]

One big problem I can see is diabetics will just not seek medical help in the hope they can get over it them selves so there will be no record of it.  Dangerous

This is all about people with Type 1 (insulin dependent) diabetes.

Surely, such people already live on a knife edge. They know that they have to manage their glucose levels in order to survive, they receive continuing medical attention. Are you suggesting that the thrill of being behind the wheel of a car is so attractive to them that they would risk (at worst) a charge of manslaughter?

[Quillan]

Actually it's not just Type 1 it's Type 2 as well and I quote.

"These changes affect anyone taking insulin or taking medications that may cause hypoglycaemia [certain tablets used to treat Type 2 diabetes can induce hypoglycaemia]."

I guess that because it says "certain tablets" you may be able to change tablets, well that's what it could suggest but I am neither a doctor or a pharmacist so I don't really know.

I don't know what they do in the UK these days but certainly in France I have a blood test every three months as part of my repeat prescription (I am Type 2 by the way) and to maintain my 100% payments for my treatment so I guess if I had a French licence they would pass the results on.

Another interesting thought, if you are resident in France but still use your UK issued licence would you be 'forced' to change to a French licence?

[crossy67]

You obviously know all Clark.

Forgive me but I do not know much about his condition apart from the following.

My brother in law is an insulin dependent diabetic, he is not a medical wreck waiting to fall off his knife edge perch at any moment as you put it.  He needs to drive for his job and to commute to and from it, it's more a necessity than a thrill, much as I expect it is for most still living on an over crowded island.  He does manage his blood sugars well but even so he does have the odd rare episode.  To loose his license would be loosing his employment and as such his income, his families income.

What I was saying was surely if a diabetic is dependent on his license for his mobility or income then covering up a potentially harmful hypo would look attractive.

If you don't have anything useful to input then why comment at all?

[Val_2]

There are thousands upon thousands of people who have type 2 diabetes without even knowing it, my OH did not know until he lost so much weight and began drinking 6 bottles of water per day that he went to see his doctor and we all know how thorough the french doctors are. In the UK people eat terrible food these days (France as well) and I doubt,with all the bad publicity about doctors over there not bothering with most people who have a worry, that many will go to get a blood test done to find out if they are suffering. Therefore they are also driving on the roads too!

[Val_2]

As an answer to the medication for type 2, OH has just suffered a mild stroke provoked by cholesterol build up blocking a main artery and whilst in hospital, the doctors discovered that the tablets he had been taking since April 2010 had not been working properly for at least the past six months even though he has a three monthly blood test. The hospital put him on much stronger tablets andnow the readings are much lower and diet is controlling it.

Medication given can actually cause problems without the patient knowing it,it seems.

[Clarkkent]

[quote user="crossy67"]You obviously know all Clark.

...

What I was saying was surely if a diabetic is dependent on his license for his mobility or income then covering up a potentially harmful hypo would look attractive

....

If you don't have anything useful to input then why comment at all?
[/quote]

Well, what side of the bed did you get out of today?

You said: One big problem I can see is diabetics will just not seek medical help in the hope they can get over it them selves so there will be no record of it. That is a generalisation. You are extending to all diabetics behaviour that may be restricted to just a few. I'm pleased to hear that your brother-in-law manages his condition well, as do the diabetics that I know. I'm sure it would be very difficult for him if he lost his job, but are you saying that he would effectively falsify his medical history in order to keep it?

And what I was saying was that in order to stay alive anyway people with diabetes have to be sensible. Why should they not be sensible in relation to their driving?

It may be that the regulation is too draconian and that the risk has been over assessed, but there is a risk nevertheless.

 

 

[Quillan]

Reading Crossy67's post I don't think people should go in to a blind panic yet because it's the hypoglycaemia bit you have to worry about and not everyone suffers from it apparently. This is when the blood sugar gets too low and can result in (according to the NHS website) tiredness, double vision, you can also faint, have a seizure or go in to a coma.

I can see why they might consider bringing in this change when you look at what could happen. I can also see the headlines now in the DM (who incidentally say this should not be made law) "Man/Woman kills children at bus stop after having a diabetic seizure (or whatever)", people would be up in arms demanding that all diabetics have their licence removed which of course would be grossly unfair. Anyway I would have thought that most people who have suffered these symptoms would be so scared they wouldn't, voluntarily, drive anyway.

I was watching PM's questions yesterday and this came up, some MP was asking the PM and the government o ignore this EU directive. I remain unconvinced either way really. I wonder how many accidents have actually been caused, if any, as a direct result of the side effects of a drive with diabetes?

[Val_2]

Not only diabetes but what about illnesses and the effects of treatment. Several years ago our friends had their lovely newly bought car written off outside their house by a man driving on the other side of the road who had just left hospital and driven himself home after a session of chemotherapy. He suffered some sort of blackout and passed out whilst driving which clearly he should not have been, but it does happen.What about those people too and where does the law stand on that? I think it willopen the floodgates personally.

[Russethouse]

I know lots of policies (all?) say you are not supposed to drive for 6 weeks after surgery......

[Russethouse]

[quote user="Val_2"]There are thousands upon thousands of people who have type 2 diabetes without even knowing it, my OH did not know until he lost so much weight and began drinking 6 bottles of water per day that he went to see his doctor and we all know how thorough the french doctors are. In the UK people eat terrible food these days (France as well) and I doubt,with all the bad publicity about doctors over there not bothering with most people who have a worry, that many will go to get a blood test done to find out if they are suffering. Therefore they are also driving on the roads too![/quote]

Val, honestly my OH is type 2 and has excellent care, in fact better care than my American friend with the same condition....you really shouldn't believe everything you read about UK doctors, there are good and bad doctors everywhere, France included, I have experience of both our own GP practice and my mothers and have no complaints and my mother is not far from your old home.

Diabetic testing and treatment is something the NHS do well, again in my experience and Diabetics (both types) get all medicines FOA in the Uk.

[Cendrillon]

I'll second that RH [:)]

[andyh4]

Well at least in France, anyone who looses their licence will still be able to drive in their SP!

[Frederick]

[quote user="Val_2"]Not only diabetes but what about illnesses and the effects of treatment. Several years ago our friends had their lovely newly bought car written off outside their house by a man driving on the other side of the road who had just left hospital and driven himself home after a session of chemotherapy. He suffered some sort of blackout and passed out whilst driving which clearly he should not have been, but it does happen.What about those people too and where does the law stand on that? I think it willopen the floodgates personally.[/quote]

 

As a volunteer driver who takes people to Hospital for Radio Therapy and Chemo three days a week in the UK. I can say that I have lost count of the number of times I have had patients tell me they are quite capable of driving themselves to hospital and dont understand why the hospitals require them to be brought in with a car service driver .  I tell them why they should not drive after their treatmant but I know after I drop them off at home some will probably get straight  in their  car and go off to the shops or wherever . I know of a patient who managed to kill himself by driving after dyalisis when he was told he was not to drive . He came off the road at a bend and hit a tree  

People will take a chance . Sudden illness at the wheel is what happens to other patients they believe .

[Val_2]

Val, honestly my OH is type 2 and has excellent care, in fact better care than my American friend with the same condition....you really shouldn't believe everything you read about UK doctors, there are good and bad doctors everywhere, France included, I have experience of both our own GP practice and my mothers and have no complaints and my mother is not far from your old home.

Diabetic testing and treatment is something the NHS do well, again in my experience and Diabetics (both types) get all medicines FOA in the Uk.

You have to remember that we only hear about the bad things to do with doctors and the NHS in the UK, here in France and also bad reports from family where they have had bad treatment.

Diabetes is on the ALD "30" list here and everything connected is free of charge. In fact this week OH received attestation that all doctor's appointments in future will be free to him as well. His hospital forfait journalier is also waived.

[Cendrillon]

"You have to remember that we only hear about the bad things to do with

doctors and the NHS in the UK, here in France and also bad reports from

family where they have had bad treatment.

"

Sadly, the good treatment from U.K. G.Ps and other NHS services rarely makes the headlines.

[Russethouse]

Diabetes is on the ALD "30" list here and everything connected is free of charge. In fact this week OH received attestation that all doctor's appointments in future will be free to him as well. His hospital forfait journalier is also waived.

 In the Uk if you have diabetes all prescriptions are free, connected to it or not.  Same with Thyroxine, if you were on that everything was free at one time, not sure what the case is now.

If I remember correctly your family live in an area where the local hospital is having a major rehaul......they should just thank their lucky stars that they aren't under Wexham Park

[Rabbie]

[quote user="Cendrillon"]"You have to remember that we only hear about the bad things to do with doctors and the NHS in the UK, here in France and also bad reports from family where they have had bad treatment. "

Sadly, the good treatment from U.K. G.Ps and other NHS services rarely makes the headlines.
[/quote]Good news never seems to make the headlines especially when it is the rule rather than the exception

[Chancer]

[quote user="Russethouse"]I know lots of policies (all?) say you are not supposed to drive for 6 weeks after surgery......[/quote]

Are you quite sure about that RH?

I know that the "not supposed" is your words rather than an insurers but do they really list an exclusion of driving after an operation and 6 weeks!!!

Surely it depends on the operation and the age and fitness of the patient? 

[Russethouse]

 I know it applied when my father had surgery and I have heard of other instances since...may be there is something about unless your GP recommends it....

Better to check the policy than be caught out though

[Clarkkent]

[quote user="Chancer"]

[quote user="Russethouse"]I know lots of policies (all?) say you are not supposed to drive for 6 weeks after surgery......[/quote]

Are you quite sure about that RH?

I know that the "not supposed" is your words rather than an insurers but do they really list an exclusion of driving after an operation and 6 weeks!!!

Surely it depends on the operation and the age and fitness of the patient? 

[/quote]

I would imagine that if an insurer learned that you had received advice to that effect they would consider it justification to invalidate your insurance.

[Benjamin]

[quote user="Russethouse"]

Better to check the policy than be caught out though

[/quote]

I was told not to drive for six weeks by the hospital staff after my recent knee joint replacemnt. When I pointed out it was my left knee and I drive an automatic everyone went blank

I asked my insurer to check with their underwriters and the answer came back that they are not allowed to discriminate on medical grounds. I'm not saying that in the event of a claim they would not try to wriggle but that was what I was told.

[Gardian]

I don't understand the logic of a suggestion that people with a medical condition - in this case Diabetes - might risk driving licence removal.

Most people with a medical condition which has been diagnosed and is being reviewed / managed regularly, present a much lower risk than somebody with an undisclosed problem. I accept entirely that this doesn't apply in every case (Mrs G has given up driving for medical reasons) and can't legislate for those daft few who don't religiously follow their advised medication regime.

The real answer of course is a short compulsory medical MOT (say) every two years to ensure that undetected medical issues are diagnosed and action taken before licence renewal. A bit OTT / nanny state I know, but if the vehicle has to be safe, why not the driver?  I know: had a dodgy 'ticker' for several years before a scare forced action. Happily dealt with and I'm in better physical shape than for years + my GP over here keeps a very close eye on things.