Hybrid Cars in France

[Quillan]

I was wondering if there are any benefits of owning one like in the UK where you don't pay or pay very little road tax (which we don't have in France) and the same for congestion charges. I mean are things like is registering such a car in France cheaper for example?

[YCCMB]

Dunno if this is totally up to dAte, but it seems the answer to your question is yes.

http://www.fiscalite-automobile.fr/fiscalite-des-vehicules-hybrides/

[Gardengirl]

I thought there must be financial reasons for the number of Toyota Prius' we see near us in the Gard, besides the allowance given when purchasing them. There are quite a lot in our small town, including taxis.

We have a Prius, and there's a lot of interest in it, particularly when in car parks, due to the lack of engine noise when reversing into a space etc - and being a UK car, it causes extra surprise to people to see the steering wheel on the 'wrong' side.

[woolybanana]

I might be wrong but I have a feeling that the incentives to buy hybrid vehicles are being reduced or abolished if it has not been done already.

Why not pop into a Toyota garage and ask?

[NormanH]

There was an iten on Fr 2 news the other night following up the VW 'cheating' story which said that the manufacturer's figures on fuel consumption were also extremely misleading, and Hybrid cars were particularly mentioned in this respect

[Quillan]

Thanks Betty that's the stuff. I think the amounts are out of date from what I read elsewhere and as said is coming to an end. The bit it was really interested in was the carte grise cost. Seems this is still controlled by department in France and the Prius is really cheap to register, about half that of a Peugeot 308SW that we currently have which is supposed to be low C02 emission.

 

It is a Prius I am looking at, Clarkson would have a fit I suspect but hey ho with diesel fuel due to see an increase due to extra tax added over the next three years making it at least the same price as petrol if not more it seems a good time to dump the diesel Peugeot before they lose too much second hand value. I was rather worried about about the battery life as a new one costs over €4,500 including fitting but the Prius 3 (bought after 1 June 2012) has a ten year battery warranty and what with the Prius 4 coming out in 2016 their prices are dropping.

 

I know Honda Hybrid MPG claims have been disputed and they got 'done' in the US because of this and I doubt you get 72mpg out of Prius 3 although from what I have read it seems 55 to 65mpg is more the norm which is a bit better than my Peugeot (47mpg claimed more like 38mpg). The insurance is cheaper as well. Up until I read about the tax increases and the VW scandal I rather favoured the Audi A4 but have discounted going that route now as it would be the 2L engine, the problem one.

[Gardengirl]

Our average is 55mpg, which includes quite a bit of stop/start in town driving in UK particularly, obviously much higher when on long runs and especially to and from France/UK. It's heading for 6 years old and no problems with the battery so far.

[Quillan]

[quote user="gardengirl "]Our average is 55mpg, which includes quite a bit of stop/start in town driving in UK particularly, obviously much higher when on long runs and especially to and from France/UK. It's heading for 6 years old and no problems with the battery so far.[/quote]

 

How many miles has yours done and have you had any expensive bills?

[Théière]

[quote user="Quillan"] my Peugeot (47mpg claimed more like 38mpg). [/quote]

That's pretty poor and suggests an engine tune up or maintenance is required.

My friends get 55-58 on a run (same model).

I had an issue with the Renault so had to strip down and clean up the EGR valve which was choked with carbon deposit. that took the consumption from 46-48 to 50-54 on a run and on posh diesel she'll do 60-62mpg

Q buy a Tesla!

[Gardengirl]

We've done 55,000 miles and the only bills we've had are:

1 new 12 volt battery at about £100

2 replacement batteries for the keys

Other than those, nothing over about £50, but as we bought the 5 year guarantee we haven't had to pay for the above.

We plan to buy another Toyota hybrid as a replacement, but not just yet. It won't be a Prius, as I really don't like driving it. I only take over driving on French motorways when going to and from France/UK to give my husband a rest for a couple of hours at a time.

[woolybanana]

There is a new 'brid of battery due shortly which should give distances between recharges compatible with diesels, so you might wait a couple of years or so.

More interesting are the new hydrogen powered cars which should take the car market by storm if the manufacturers can get off their a*ses and get them out at a sensible price. I think Toyota have one in limited numbers and probably not practical in Europe as you can't refill it yet in many places.

[Quillan]

Théière - It's the 2L version and to be fair I use it as a run around because it is an estate which I can take all the seats out and use as a 'minivan' for the B&B. Longer trips I use another car which whilst it gives pretty poor fuel consuption is a real pleasure to drive. [;-)]

 

Gardengirl - Have to say I have not driven one yet so your comment "It won't be a Prius, as I really don't like driving it." interests me so I am wondering why?

 

Wooly - Toyota makes a pre production hydrogen car, I read about it on the BBC website under the technology bit. They have sent several of these cars to many countries (including not just Europe but the UK) and 'given' them to real people to test. As you say the problem is recharging them but Toyota has come up with a solution, a pump that makes its own hydrogen. Problem is it takes two weeks to make 18 litres which are enough to fill up six cars plus it uses a lot of electricity. Uses water apparently, so water in, hydrogen out then back to water. It's the old argument in that all you’re doing is moving the pollution somewhere else. I saw that the mayor of London (well vice mayor to be exact) expects diesel vehicles to be banned from London by 2020. I wonder what happens to buses and lorries making deliveries

[woolybanana]

Update, Quillan; the Toyota Mirai is the first commercially available car for purchase or lease with an initial production run of just 700 and a bearable price if you are wealthy.

So, you might want to order one new for your kids/grandkids, or for the date when hydrogen refuelling reaches Bogshire en Merde in the Pyrekneees!

However, I do think that these cars will take the market by storm once they have become a bit more visible and been shiwn to be safe and not too pricey.

I didn't know that some London buses run on hydrogen. Upwards and onwards!

Imagine if we could put hydrogen up Norman's heavily polluting diesel scooter pipe. He would be a different man - that seems to be a strong incentive!

[NickP]

[quote user="Quillan"] I saw that the mayor of London (well vice mayor

to be exact) expects diesel vehicles to be banned from London by 2020. I

wonder what happens to buses and lorries making deliveries[/quote]

Not

exactly, there are several deputy mayors of London, and one Stephen Greenhalgh is trying to get voted in as next Mayor,  his election

pledges include banning "dirty" diesels, ones manufactured before 2006.

You know as well as I do; that what he says now and what he says if he gets elected, after

the transport lobby has wedged him firmly in their pockets with invisible incentives will bear no

relation at all to what he pledged.

 As for hydrogen fuel; the hard ware is too

expensive, they've been trying for donkeys years to promote the idea, no

joy and won't be in the near future, the oil industry will see to that. I and others did have a  giggle a few years ago when Toyota presented Paul McCartney with a Prius in recognition of his ecological work, they flew the car to London . [:)]

[Quillan]

Thats the one Wooly, £66k for a new one and only four refilling stations in the UK, all in and around London. Hyundai make one as well and it's €7k cheaper whoopie. They only allocated 15 cars in 2015 and 18 more are expected in 2016. The only price for refilling I could find was in Germany and it cost 46 Euros to fill the tank. There is no government incentive to buy them in the UK either although they are talking about a €5k grant in the future. Oh yes and there are four stations in France, a bit more spaced out, our nearest is Albi a good hours drive away. So all in all stick with a Hybrid for the moment I would think.

[CeeJay]

Bit skewed I know but at least posting about an electric driven car is 50% of the question!!

Coming across on the Tunnel last weekend I noticed the car behind me was a Tesla, never seen one before so I started chatting to the guy driving. What first struck me was the absolutely enormous sat nav screen, it was about 40cm long and 20 wide, anyway the point is that it is an all electric car, which even drives itself no input from the driver, and the guy reckons that he can go 300 miles on a charge and only take 30minutes to fully charge. Now if that is the norm for charging cars then enormous strides have taken place recently as I understood it would take at least overnight to do the same.

Very interesting!

[Gardengirl]

Quill an I don't like the size of the Prius, I'm much happier in small cars, so we'll buy one of the smaller Toyota hybrids when we decide to trade in the Prius. Other than that it's fine, very comfortable on our drives to and from UK and France, and a smooth runner.

Plus the 3 layers of the boot mean we can pack a lot in when on our drives to France - we have so much medication for our various health problems these days that a 6 week stay makes us look like a pharmacy, so being able to fit a lot of nobbly packets in the third layer is very useful.

I've only seen a Tesla once. A hotel we often stay at on our runs up and down France has a charging point for them in their car park, and a Tesla was plugged in last time we stayed there. My husband was extremely interested in it.

Edit: I didn't drive the Porsche either, but did enjoy our 2 Saab 9000s.

[Théière]

[quote user="CeeJay"]Bit skewed I know but at least posting about an electric driven car is 50% of the question!!

Coming across on the Tunnel last weekend I noticed the car behind me was a Tesla, never seen one before so I started chatting to the guy driving. What first struck me was the absolutely enormous sat nav screen, it was about 40cm long and 20 wide, anyway the point is that it is an all electric car, which even drives itself no input from the driver, and the guy reckons that he can go 300 miles on a charge and only take 30minutes to fully charge. Now if that is the norm for charging cars then enormous strides have taken place recently as I understood it would take at least overnight to do the same.

Very interesting!

[/quote]

No Ceejay it's not yet the norm, it's Tesla pushing the boundaries and they do it very well, there is also the slower overnight charge too as some points won't have the fast charge.

Beautiful looker wasn't it well compared to a Prius.

[Théière]

[quote user="NickP"]

Not

exactly, there are several deputy mayors of London, and one Stephen Greenhalgh is trying to get voted in as next Mayor,  his election

pledges include banning "dirty" diesels, ones manufactured before 2006.

[/quote]

Ahem, diesels made before 2006 will already be banned from London by 2020! Only currently Euro spec 5 or it 6 will be allowed into London after 2020.

The hardware isn't too expensive, it's a simple electrolysis unit with a spark arrester everywhere cos it's explosive don't yer know.  What is expensive is how the manufacturers can charge more for it when there is enough reserve power from the alternator to make the system work already. Not much use with a flat battery though.  DIYers have already had it running engines for a while but you have to inject a bit of oil for cylinder lubricant as it burns hot and very clean indeed so top of the engines wears out, same with LPG.

[NickP]

"Ahem" my comment was about the spiel by one of the deputy mayors thank you, so don't shoot the messenger.[:P]

[Théière]

Not even taking aim [kiss] it just amazes me that the spin never stops to the potential voters and no doubt they would claim it as a victory even though it was already on the current Mayors ideals list.

I just can't ever remember Tomorrows world saying in the 21st century we won't have cars as they will have been ditched and people will get onto push bikes except for all the electric vans and lorries bringing in the food and all other goods cos you can't fit them on a bike.

It just shifts the problem doesn't cure it.

[NickP]

For sure T, but can you honestly see them banning diesels in 5 years, they have just spent a fortune on new buses in London, I'm not certain but they must cost untold. How will goods get delivered, how will peoples leaks get fixed,  electrics repaired. The electric; hydrogen dream whatever, is years away mainly because of costs that have already been spent on petrol/diesel engines, also don't forget the power of the big wigs who own the oil companies, I don't think they will roll over easily. Yes I agree it would be wonderful for all vehicles to be eco friendly, but it will take  forever to come to fruition.

[Quillan]

Well the not so new now Routemaster buses are diesel hybrid although the new, Chinese build, all electric buses were supposed to be rolled out this October. I have no idea if they have been, perhaps somebody can confirm. The reason I mention this is because if true what Paul said about politicians (which I personally agree with, how about that) is correct. The not so new Routemaster, commissioned by Boris and built in the UK was launched big time as not only a 'jump on and off bus' but also creating jobs in the UK. A lot of council tax payers money in London was spent on this project which is being replaced with electric buses built by non UK workers.

 

Many computer service companies working in London gave up using company cars years ago. Back in the mid 1980's both IBM and DEC took their London service engineers cars away and gave them annual travel passes instead because of speed of getting to site. Parts were delivered by bike and big parts swapped out at weekends. A lot of deliveries are now done at night anyway to cut back on both congestion charges for the delivery companies and to keep congestion down but that still does not deal with the pollution in that it may not be as much in the day but over a 24 hour period it remains the same.

 

The congestion charges did not stop people driving into London because most cars entering are company cars and the congestion charges are simply passed on to the customer so it does not really put people off bringing their company cars in to London. I think the only thing they can really do is simply ban cars from central London from say 06:00 to 19:00. This does however need to be backed up by good, cheap, heavily subsidised, public transport. London however as the capital city of the UK only receives around a 2p subsidy per passenger journey compared to the maximum of 18p in non-metropolitan areas. The UK subsidised public transport the least, or so I read, out of all the EU countries and when it comes down to capital cities in Europe it is at the bottom. I used to drive from Docklands to the V&A (South Ken) every day because it was more pleasant and actually (slightly) quicker even in the rush hour but more expensive but then the customer was paying.

[Quillan]

Here is the BBC link I talked about on Hydrogen filling stations and Toyota hydrogen car

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-34647343

 

There are rumours that Apple are developing a car, the ICar (http://uk.businessinsider.com/apple-car-reports-tim-cook-interview-2015-10) it will come with predictive cornering. [;-)]

[Théière]

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/first-official-pictures/bmw/hydrogen-to-hit-the-highway-new-bmw-i8-fuel-cell-unveiled/

They won't be getting rid of the diesels as you said too many people and companies have spent large quantities of money on new transport.