Teaching English (CELTA) no previous experience/qualifications

[Emma Louise]

Hi there, I am currently trying to piece together my future/career, so I'm not 100% sure on everything at the moment. I'm applying to do a CELTA qualification next summer, and then move out to France some time in early 2013. As I said, I am not definite on anything right now, and not set on a certain career or area to live in, so apologies if this seems unrealistic/vague etc.

I have 11 GCSE's and 3 A levels (AAA English Lit, History, Religious Studies) but no other qualifications. I also have no previous teaching experience (only work experience I have is in administration, a managerial role, and several other waitressing/retail jobs)

I guess my main question is, is it possible to be able to teach English as a foreign language in france with no previous experience and just a CELTA qualification? What other job opportunities are open to me, if any?

Just to add, my level of french is currently basic, but I hope to have it to a fluent (or near enough!) level by the time I go over there. I also realise this is quite far in advance! I am full of ideas at the moment but have nowhere to take them!

Thanks for any help or advice!

[mint]

Emma Louise, I hate to pour cold water on your scheme but, as far as I know, you will find it difficult to earn a living teaching English as a foreign language.

For starters, you would have to live in a large city, Paris, Marseilles, to find a full-time job.  The downside is that accommodation is expensive in large cities.

You'd stand a better chance if you had a teaching qualification AS WELL AS a Celta.  I am speaking as one who has TESOL plus a first class honours degree in Linguistics but then I must admit I wasn't really jobhunting!!!

I'm sorry if my answer disappoints but someone or other will be telling you more or less the same thing soon.....

Apologies!!!

[Emma Louise]

Of course! It's not dissapointing at all to be honest, I was expecting it to be so. Thanks for your advice, I appreciate the honesty! I'd rather know what I'm betting with to begin with, than find out the hard way 4 years down the line!

[idun]

I think that it would depend as to where you moved really. My friend had as much work as she wanted really, not as good a qualifications as you either, but good french too and she was never cheap.

If you move somewhere dynamic, Paris, Lille, Lyon, Grenoble etc etc then I daresay that you would find work. Cost of housing and living is also dearer in the cities, something else to think about.

[Emma Louise]

I was thinking somewhere like Montpellier, but I would be open to options really. Money isn't too much of an issue, I've been saving for years so would have enough to get me by for a while until I found something. Did your friend do it temporarily of permanently? and in what sort of places/age did she teach? I wasn't sure if schools were an option, so though maybe joining and agency that employs you as a personal tutor?

Thanks!

[LEO]

[quote user="Emma Louise"]Hi there, I am currently trying to piece together my future/career, so I'm not 100% sure on everything at the moment. I'm applying to do a CELTA qualification next summer, and then move out to France some time in early 2013. As I said, I am not definite on anything right now, and not set on a certain career or area to live in, so apologies if this seems unrealistic/vague etc.

I have 11 GCSE's and 3 A levels (AAA English Lit, History, Religious Studies) but no other qualifications. I also have no previous teaching experience (only work experience I have is in administration, a managerial role, and several other waitressing/retail jobs)

I guess my main question is, is it possible to be able to teach English as a foreign language in france with no previous experience and just a CELTA qualification? What other job opportunities are open to me, if any?

Just to add, my level of french is currently basic, but I hope to have it to a fluent (or near enough!) level by the time I go over there. I also realise this is quite far in advance! I am full of ideas at the moment but have nowhere to take them!

Thanks for any help or advice![/quote]

Hi Emma Louise,

I am answering the part of your post,  that I've highlighted;

Answer;

Probably, none that would be rewarding!

[idun]

My friend worked in schools and with the Chambre de Commerce. All ages actually. People would ask her to do english with their kids and as I say, she was not cheap. She never made a fortune either as when she had her own kids she would fit this in with family life. But she certainly made enough to make it feel worth while.

[Kitty]

Welcome to the Forum, E-L. 

Private lessons are possible but won't make you a fortune.  I am not convinced that it can be a principal income.

First, adults.  There is a huge demand for English lessons from the French, who regret not having learned more at school.  The problem is that they start with lessons in an enthusiastic manner and give up as soon as they realise that it is difficult to learn a language, so you have to work hard to keep adult pupils for longer than a year.  However dynamic your lessons are, they drift off but there are plenty to replace them if you have a good reputation.

Next children.  French parents really want their children to speak English and so there is a demand for tuition.  A lot of this is home based and you have to factor in driving time and petrol costs.

[Judith]

I have an English friend here, who came over permanently about 2 years ago.  She was a highly qualified (Head of Dept) teacher for a many years in England, teaching French (and some German and Spanish).  She now teaches (mainly) English, via various sources (agencies, Maison de la Formation - where she is very highly  regarded - all paid by the hour I think) and also has over the two years by word of mouth and the agencies got work privately teaching English / German / Spanish .... to all sorts.

It has taken her two years to begin to get towards an acceptable level of income, from the various sources, and she is a very highly qualified, experienced teacher.  In a couple of years (from something she was telling me) when she "passed" the exams to work in state schools (all her work is in private schools or similar I think) they will be introducing new rules and all who wish to teach in the state system will have to comply, even if, as in her case, her English qualifications and experience are far superior to what they are introducing - which was acknowledged by the people doing the "interviewing" at the time.  She won't be dong that she says!

So, it is possible, but very difficult, especially without experience, and will take time to establish any level of decent income, bearing in mind what you have to pay out in cotisations etc.  You should research those sorts of things too - plenty of info and advice on this forum through the search button.

And you would need to speak French well also.

[Richard51]

Emma-Louise

Congratulations on your excellent A level results.

I would suggest that opportunities in France are very much the same as in England for the subjects chosen. - i.e. very little without further education to degree level.

Being very blunt, France is a closed shop. Without intimate knowledge of the language you will struggle.

I don't know your individual background, especially as 2013 seems to be a particular aim, but I'd advise going for a degree course in the subject that interests you most. It may be that the university has an arrangement within ERASMUS that would enable you to study in France as part of the degree, but again this would depend on you having sufficient language skills.

Apologies if you are a mature (age) student.

[fisherman]

I’m not in a position to advise on teaching English as a foreign language in France. However you should take note of the good advice given by the other posters. You have very good qualifications perhaps you should consider other occupations where you could reach the same long term goals. Freelance journalism perhaps.

[bixy]

Don't be put off by all this negative twaddle - need to get a degree etc. Rubbish. I left school with five 'o' levels and ended up as director of a CELTA course in a further education college. I still haven't got a first degree. Having said that, CELTA is normally a degree entry course, but we accepted a number of people who were less well qualified. The point about the CELTA is that it is a very practical course, rather than being academic, and anyone with a reasonable level of intelligence and a feel for language will do fine. In my experience, and I have observed hundreds of EFL teachers, the best teachers are seldom those who are the most academically gifted. My own career started by doing the CELTA course [ then called the RSA Prep Cert] and then spending a year in Italy working at an International House[IH] school. If you do your CELTA course at IH in London they will give you help and advice about finding a job. I'm pretty certain that you will find plenty of work teaching English in the major French cities. Not speaking much French is not a problem since all your teaching should be done in English.

My advice - go for it - don't be put off by the merchants of doom. E.mail me for further advice, info.

Best of luck.

Patrick

[Chancer]

I agree, I know someone who was doing this for many years, only qualification being a native speaker and good people skills, he worked for a large French company that teaches French to company employees, they are so valued that AXA in La Defense Paris have given up one whole floor of the AXA tower as a dedicated study centre, I was interviewed for a position of a language trainer there, I have no qualifications and got an unclassified at O level French

He is now director of the North of France regional office, the problem he has is finding teachers qualified or otherwise that can actually converse (in English) at the same level as those learning the language, what I mean is when you are training the PDG or directors of  international and CAC40 companies you need to have a ceratin level of confidence, business and life experience, people skills and be personable.

There are many such companies operating in France and they are booming despite the recession, they all market heavily the fact that their trainers are native speakers, the positions are usually as vacataires where they guarantee you 60 hours per month but you may be sent all over the place at the drop of a hat and the pay is not very good at all although they pay travel expenses.

[Tancrède]

[quote user="bixy"]Don't be put off by all this negative twaddle…[/quote]Hear hear.

[quote user="bixy"]Not speaking much French is not a problem since all your teaching should be done in English.[/quote]Quite.

I would only wish to add my opinion that it is worth going for your CELTA course at the best and most reputable establishment that you can afford.  Not only will this will improve your chances of getting supportive career advice and making good contacts, but the perceived quality of your training will enhance your qualification.

[mint]

So, I obviously didn't look very hard for a job!

It seemed impossibly difficult at the time but my circumstances weren't like yours, Emma Louise; I wasn't free to move around France and I didn't fancy the courses that you teach on the telephone as I dislike the phone.

If you do decide to have a go, I wish you all the best, of course.[:)]

[Judith]

You might not need French to work as an English teacher, but you certainly need it to live here.....even in a big city.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Judith"]You might not need French to work as an English teacher, but you certainly need it to live here.....even in a big city.
[/quote]

The total knowledge of french by the majority of elderly UK expats could be put on the back of a postage stamp.[:-))]

[mint]

[quote user="Judith"]You might not need French to work as an English teacher, but you certainly need it to live here.....even in a big city.
[/quote]

Plus you need to get through the interview, probably conducted in FRENCH, in order to get the job?

[bubbles]

Why not start off by trying to find a job teaching English as a foreign language in England?

This is the time of year when all the language schools are recruiting for the season ahead.

[Tancrède]

[quote user="sweet 17"]Plus you need to get through the interview, probably conducted in FRENCH, in order to get the job?[/quote]

When I was unexpectedly asked if I would be prepared to undertake a project to teach English to Roumanians I simply said 'Yes'  -  in French, as it happened. 

Can you start next week ?  Err…  no  -  I have a cat, a life and an aged parent to consider.  I will start in January. 

I devised and administered a suitable placement test, marked it, arranged the classes, planned the lessons, networked at a dinner party to get someone to donate a very large whiteboard, and began teaching the initial sixty candidates (of all levels from débutant to advanced) the following Monday. 

This was done single-handed, and was one of the happiest, most demanding, and rewarding periods of my life.

The only Roumanian I know is Happy Christmas.  I did once know the Roumanian for artichoke  -  but that has now vanished.

In addition to the classes, I was instantly approached by people wanting individual lessons.  Less entertaining  -  but more lucrative.  Ching ching.

If the OP has the guts and a bit of nous, there are great possibilities.  My only caveat is that she should remember that France is an absolutist, dirigiste, 'socialist' and interventionist State which is essentially opposed to enterprise.  Why not live in France and work somewhere where effort is appreciated ?

[Judith]

[quote user="pachapapa"]

[quote user="Judith"]You might not need French to work as an English teacher, but you certainly need it to live here.....even in a big city.

[/quote]

The total knowledge of french by the majority of elderly UK expats could be put on the back of a postage stamp.[:-))]

[/quote]

Possibly true, but she is not an elderly ex-pat, and wants to work here..... hence my comment.

[mint]

What I want to say to Gengulphus is this:

You can't put an old head on young shoulders!

You did marvellously well getting that course together over a weekend but, don't you think that, as you get older, you develop many coping strategies and can get many things done in much less time than when you were younger?[:D]

It must be one of the compensations for getting old, you just have so much knowledge, life experience, whatever you want to call it that, working to a deadline, dealing with unexpected problems and all the rest of it, come that much easier.

We have so many tricks of the trade, as it were, to bring to bear on a problem and nothing seems that big or impossible, because you know that you can work through things.

The OP, if I have read her post rightly, is a youngster:  full of dreams and plans, as the young rightly should have.  She has to serve her apprenticeship in life.....and you can't replace gaining that experience first hand.

On the plus side, she hasn't had to deal with failures, dreams unfulfilled, desires quenched and so her perspective is different from ours.

If you do make the attempt, Emma Louise, please come back and tell us how you are doing and what you will have had to overcome, won't you?

I love to see young people getting on in life; that's what makes them so fascinating to know!

[Tancrède]

[quote user="sweet 17"]…but, don't you think that, as you get older, you develop many coping strategies and can get many things done in much less time than when you were younger?[:D][/quote]

You put me in a difficult position S16, and I must admit I can't answer answer your question with complete candour because I haven't actually got older yet.  I am still in my prime, and I was even younger at the time referred to.  So my full battery of coping strategies remains as yet undetermined. 

I cannot tell how old the OP might be.  She must be quite young because

she can still remember how many GCEs she has  -  so she is

probably younger than I am.

But  -  age notwithstanding  -  I must admit quite shamelessly that I took up this challenge precisely because it was mad, ludicrous and unexpected.  I would not have done it had the proposition seemed remotely sensible. 

It was the middle of the night and I found myself careering across Ireland (right across) towards Galway with a totally unknown francophone Roumanian archbishop.  My coping strategies must at least been partially in place because the U-turn across a motorway verge did not disconcert me at all  -  the manœuvre was anyway very much of a piece with the style of Irish driving in general.  But my inability to convince the Roumanian driver that priorité à droite did not hold good in the Republic did give me cause for unease.

We stopped at a filling station and ate chocolate buns under the awning in the pouring rain. 

Given the general absurdity of the circumstances, oui seemed the obvious response.  I never regretted it.

[Richard51]

Interesting to see how different peoples careers have developed. I fear that in this day and age it will not be as easy to get such  jobs as it was in the past. However, I'm sure some people will make it satisfying/big with enough entrepreneurial spirit (or cash) - please forgive my cynicism.

"It was the middle of the night and I found myself careering across

Ireland (right across) towards Galway with a totally unknown francophone

Roumanian archbishop." - if this were a novel I would be very tempted to skip to the end to see how this wonderful scenario came to be!! Surely not the average night out down the pub for the average person? Please tell more.

I suppose the path of life is full of unknown twists and turns - I was just giving my opinion to an obviously able person based on my particular path. I certainly benefited, compared to my peer group, by going to university and that was all those years ago. Nowadays all the peer group are going to university as well.

Richard.

NB its also interesting to see that the "normal/average" requirement for the CELTA is a degree, you pay for it and its over in a few weeks.

 

[mint]

Yes and No, R51.

Yes, you do pay and No, it's not as easy as all that.  There was so much grammar and, believe it or not, there were people who'd had no formal instruction in grammar throughout their school and university careers.

Granted, it only took 4 weeks, but I do not remember a time when I'd worked harder in my life.  I had to take 2 trains to get to the university (and, of course, 2 to get home each evening) and for the whole month, OH and I lived on pre-packaged meals and I had homework every night. 

Definitely worse than school and FAR worse than university.  But, it was a very, very interesting training and I'd no idea my knowledge of the English language was so shaky.....