lespins Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 Just read in Sunday paper that as from Easter this year French building Regs require all renovated properties to have a 10 year guarantee supplied with them if they are to be sold on.It states that this rule will make the sale and purchase of renovated old property in France stagnate and that there will be even more derelict properties that no one will want to buy as a result.Anyone heard any similar stories or mutterings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 Personally, I'd be grateful if I were buying a renovated house, to find such a guarantee in place. When we bought our little fermette, we were prepared for some work as the former owner had done many of the renovations himself. When we had the place re-wired, I have never heard so much French cursing as I did when our electrician found what a (dangerous) botched job he had done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJSLIV Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 Just read in Sunday paper Which one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamedup Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 So all those brico shops will be shutting their doors too? The size and number of brico shops we found when we moved to France was amazing. We just couldn't believe it. The first flat we lived in, all too soon had evidence of DIY'ers at work, only they were probably not so rich, as hammering, seemed to be the most techno thing that was happening. In the next flat and the buzz of electric drills etc was evident. As artisans, even with the 5.5% are still so expensive, some of us just wouldn't be able to get some jobs done. I have no idea as to whether this will be a law or not, but it has not been well thought out. Maybe some sort of proper surveying of properties that are a vendre, should be done rather than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 Guarantee what - everything ? Just the work you had done on the property after the law became effective. But then who knows when work was carried out (unless DdT or PdC are required). Are vendors then required to guarantee work carried out by the previous vendor ?, etc. etc.Who would be liable as in most cases people would be using the money from the property sale for something else so it would not be available to "underwrite" any guarantee. Maybe vendors would but an insurance based guarantee, but then how would an insurance company quantify the risks ?An then there is work needing to be done. You cannot get an artisan to e.g. fix your roof, but are also required to give it a 10 yr guarantee !!An interesting idea but I would be interested in seeing what is actually being proposed.Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 True, it sounds like a nightmare. I would be very interested to see the article and - more importantly - the information it was based on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val_2 Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 Even now roof REPAIRS are not covered under the artisan's guarantee, only a complete new roof including all new timbers,volige and tiles are covered - you can check that with any insurer and they all say the same in the small print. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJT Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 Chances are we will never buy another property for a very long time, but I would welcome this law with a property I was buying. I don't think I would ever consider buying a property that was renovated by DIY anyway. Warning to anyone considering renovation in France, we are not doing any DIY, we are having artisans do the work and it is still a complete nightmare. Never again! In hindsight, we could have paid much more than we wanted to spend on a property that needed no work, but in the end, we will be spending many times over that. [:(]We didn't buy our property as an investment, however, if we had, we would never make back what we are having to spend for renovations.Having said that, we absolutely love our house and particularly the situation and where we are located, but could have had a much easier life if we had found a property that needed no work.Edit: By the way, all of the artisans that we have so far do provide a ten year guarantee, therefore, would not be a problem if you have a professional. I do wonder if the work is DIY, the seller has to perhaps provide some sort of guarantee. I agree, it does sound as if it could get complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monika Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 Does this mean the Artisans have to give a piece of paper with a 10 year guarantee once they finish a renovation? We have only detailed invoices and receipts but no actual documents saying we have a 10 year guarantee. I once read on this forum that some firms drag their feet to finish off the works so they don't have to give you a guarantee, which I thought was not correct as no actual guarantee is being given anyway. Perhaps Val2 or BJSLIV have the answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 Much like you, WJT, we wanted this house, and are very glad we bought it. Knowing that we would not want to move out for some time - we expect to be fit enough to enjoy the country life for 10 or so more years (with luck and crossed fingers!) - we were prepared to spend a substantial amount getting the place exactly as we want it - and there's still a bit to do. Certainly, you could not call our renovations an investment, except in our own future quality of life and in making our home just the way we want it. However, as you say, a comeback on at least some of the stuff (like said electrics, above) would have been good. Admin' wise though, it's hard to see how this could be enforced. No doubt it would, if implemented, involve protraced legal battles and arguments. Humph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 [quote user="Monika"]Does this mean the Artisans have to give a piece of paper with a 10 year guarantee once they finish a renovation? We have only detailed invoices and receipts but no actual documents saying we have a 10 year guarantee. I once read on this forum that some firms drag their feet to finish off the works so they don't have to give you a guarantee, which I thought was not correct as no actual guarantee is being given anyway. Perhaps Val2 or BJSLIV have the anwer? [/quote]Your question was answered (for me, as it happens!) herehttp://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/824401/ShowPost.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJT Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 Cooperlola, you sound very positive about the renovations you had. You either were very lucky with the artisans you used, or you had much less to do than us, or you are just very happy and relieved it is behind you. [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 A whole new roof, as it happens! They were great but took ages to start. Once on site, they just never stopped and the job is excellent, apart from one or two minor snags. Our electrician/plumber is a friend, and has been since long before we moved here (French) so that has helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJT Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 Oh well, sounds like you were lucky then. As I said before, I would never recommend it to anyone (particularly people I liked [:)]), unless of course money or a budget was not a factor. [Www]Happy to hear everything went well for you at least, and it sounds as if you are really enjoying it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 [quote user="BJSLIV"]Just read in Sunday paper Which one?[/quote]French or English ?So my renovation was completed in 2005, artisans' 10 yr guarantees expire in 2015 and I sell in 2059 - am I supposed to guarantee for a further 10 years ? Johnnot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lespins Posted February 4, 2007 Author Share Posted February 4, 2007 SUNDAY EXPRESS Feb 4th 2007 A new law affecting the renovation of properties in France is set to destroy the market in derelict ruins, from which many British buyers have made fortunes. But don't worry. You should still be able to snap up a beautiful bargain, as long as you don't mind new-build. The legislation, which comes into force this Easter, stipulates that owners have to obtain an insurance-backed 10-year guarantee on any repair work. this could adversely affect the value of properties that have been done up without guarantees and would also mean properties that need renovation will sit unsold. Solicitor Keith Baker, whose firm Croft Baker specialises in the French property market, says: "The French are aligning renovation laws with new-build, where developers have to offer a 10-year guarantee to buyers. My view is, if UK buyers do the repairs themselves, they will not be able to supply guarantees of the work and this could adversely impact on the market value" Article then goes on about buying new-build off plan etc...Well thats it and I hope its not so but if it is then how does one get round the problem if they wish to sell up and move on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 I like that. Hands up all you forum members who have made fortunes from derelict ruins.Thanks for the reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 If you want someone who has SPENT a fortune on a derelict ruin, then I'm your monkey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 [quote user="Dick Smith"]If you want someone who has SPENT a fortune on a derelict ruin, then I'm your monkey.[/quote]I suspect there are a few! And, btw, I didn't think you were a monkey any more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 Sorry, overcome by a bit of morphic resonance there...I think the monkey is on his way back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalpa Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 [quote user="lespins"]The legislation, which comes into force this Easter, stipulates that owners have to obtain an insurance-backed 10-year guarantee on any repair work. this could adversely affect the value of properties that have been done up without guarantees and would also mean properties that need renovation will sit unsold. [/quote]If this is true, whatever the effect, I suspect the purpose / expectation is that it cuts down on noir-ish work by artisans of any nationality and forces homeowners to use registered, insured workers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalpa Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 [quote user="cooperlola"]Hands up all you forum members who have made fortunes from derelict ruins.[/quote]Me. In about 50 years. [:P] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJT Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 [quote user="Dick Smith"]If you want someone who has SPENT a fortune on a derelict ruin, then I'm your monkey.[/quote][:D][:D][:D] Well, if you are a monkey, I'm not so sure what I am, because I think a lion would have better sense. [:-))] I wish we had bought a ruin. We bought a so called habitable house with electrics, central heating etc.. However, it all has to be replaced so would have been much better off buying a ruin and starting from scratch. Now it even looks like we may need to replace the roof. It was a different market at the time, but it took us almost two years to find, so it wasn't as if it was a rash decision either.[blink] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Trollope Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 [quote user="lespins"]SUNDAY EXPRESS Feb 4th 2007 A new law affecting the renovation of properties in France is set to destroy the market in derelict ruins, from which many British buyers have made fortunes. But don't worry. You should still be able to snap up a beautiful bargain, as long as you don't mind new-build. The legislation, which comes into force this Easter, stipulates that owners have to obtain an insurance-backed 10-year guarantee on any repair work. this could adversely affect the value of properties that have been done up without guarantees and would also mean properties that need renovation will sit unsold. Solicitor Keith Baker, whose firm Croft Baker specialises in the French property market, says: "The French are aligning renovation laws with new-build, where developers have to offer a 10-year guarantee to buyers. My view is, if UK buyers do the repairs themselves, they will not be able to supply guarantees of the work and this could adversely impact on the market value"[/quote]This has always been the case hasn't it? You can't have any work done without guarantees. The article does not mention work done by the householder. I'll ask my insurer tomorrow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 The subject was covered recently to some extent here: http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/859003/ShowPost.aspxUnfortunately the tabloids thrive on scare stories based on half truths. I'm not saying this story is entirely wrong, but any opportunity to have a dig at those nasty froggies, or a titter at the expense of those smug wealthy second home owners coming unstuck is a chance too good to resist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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