The Health Care Changes Causing a Rush to Sell up??

[Panda]

Hello

Speaking to a local estate agent  they say that there has been a very recent surge in requests for valuations and houses being put on the market in this area (Charente)by Brits , is anyone else seeing this and is it down to the recent health care changes do you think?

It's sad if it is as houses in France are taking anything from 6 months to 2years+ to sell so selling up now is not going to help these people if they need to return to England quickly.

Panda

[Cat]

I asked Mr Cat, and he says he hasn't seen this here. Apparently though, in his experience, people often put their houses on the market in the period following the end of the summer holidays.

It would seem a bit premature for people to be selling up due to the healthcare changes, unless it's more to do with people who are living here, but not filling in French tax returns, and perhaps doing a bit of work for cash, and starting to realise that their future here might not be as secure as they thought?

 

 

[woolybanana]

There has been much more of that than any of us realises Cat. Plus people claiming benefits when they shouldn't too, eg CPAM. I think particularly around the building and property maintenance trades (excluding those who are legit), As well as the whole grey area of BnB and gites which needs tightening up. Loads of people have got cover they were not entitled to. Those I feel sorry for are those who may be deprived of their cover and who have committed to this country by paying their dues and who have serious long-term illnesses.

Of course one could argue another point of view too but lets leave that for the moment.

But there is also a load of panic.

[cooperlola]

[quote user="woolybanana"]

 Those I feel sorry for are those who may be deprived of their cover and who have committed to this country by paying their dues and who have serious long-term illnesses.

[/quote]I so agree.  And sadly for the worst off in financial as well as health terms, selling up is less of an option.  Can't afford to stay, can't afford to go back.  I know at least one couple in this situation and feel so sorry for them.

Equally, I know plenty who break the rules all over the place and although liking some of them personally, am sneakily hoping that they'll get caught out finally.

[mint]

Coops

The sooner they get caught out, the better for the rest of us, IMHO!

[Panda]

The reality is though if these rule breakers have never registered in France then are still covered healthwise by the UK and if the French don't know they live here and the UK don't know they've left then they can walk into a hospital in either country and be treated, they can claim back any health costs incurred in France too so will they get caught out, I doubt it.  It's risky of course but if like me you've only needed to see a doc once in 4.5 years you have to see that it's entirly feasable to pull off.  I've personally never heard of anyone getting caught for this, perhaps others have? 

The real downside will be if they come to sell up, then of course they cannot claim principle residence is France so will have a big CGT bill!

 

 

[Tony F Dordogne]

Too right, if people are bringing the rest of the system down for those here legitimately, about time they got sorted out.  I also think sometimes that it's the right thing to do to report people, two guys in particular who live around here, one working on the black literally all the time, the other making false claims for state support by lying in the forms he submits and which he then brags about.

Makes my blood boil!

If they get caught I hope they have to leave the country.

 

[Panda]

But this change isn't going to amke them more visible is it?  If they are not in the system things haven't changed for them.

[woolybanana]

Yes it will because they will have to register at the Mairie and can only do that if can prove they are paying tax and have health cover

[Ron Avery]

"Yes it will because they will have to register at the Mairie and can only do that if can prove they are paying tax and have health cover"

But surely that applies to new people coming to France.  How will that catch out those who are already here?  We all know people who have and are winging it as Panda described,  non existant in France and the UK, cheques for gites to mother in Scunthorpe etc

One poster on here was at it until he had an accident which forced him to register, I know a woman ex teacher, who was here 10 years before an illness forced her to register and pay for healthcare .

Sadly it would seem from the news that the French are a lot more concerned about dealing with sans papiers at the moment than a few Brits hiding under the radar.  

[Panda]

They only have to register if they want to get into the system, if they want to pretend to only be here part-time they can just not register, who is going to force them?

[woolybanana]

Two points. Firstly, getting the illegals to be legit will not change the opinion held by many French that all foreigners pay no tax and are on the fiddle. That reputation will probably never go away. It is history and folklore.

My feeling is that once the new registration rules come into effect, the communes will simply send letters to all foreigner owned homes in the commune, asking them to come in and register. Then, if they are dissatisfied with the response, they will pop round and knock on the door. They already know who is about as the local gossip system, being your neighbours, will have told them. Just as they tolerate a little work on the black amongst Brits as they tolerate it for the French. But not so much that you stick out.

[Panda]

I can see that it might happen that way but I just can't see the tiny villages in which most Brits live bothering to chase around after those non registered and if they turn around and say, we are only going to use this as a holiday home and don't want to register so as not to be a burden to the French they will not get pushed to do so.  I know someone who's been here for years, lives in his own little world, is not registered anywhere and is friends with the maire, no one bothers him at all.  He uses his EHIC for medical cover and no one bats an eyelid, why would they, they think of him as better than the type registered to the CMU in their eyes being subsidised.

[Ian]

[quote user="woolybanana"]

Two points. Firstly, getting the illegals to be legit will not change the opinion held by many French that all foreigners pay no tax and are on the fiddle. That reputation will probably never go away. It is history and folklore.

[/quote]

I agree WoolyB.  The shifty-untrustworthy-dirty-spongeing-foreigner-coming-over-here-stealing-our-jobs-benefits-and-houses mentality seems to appear throughout history and across most cultures.  It exists here too.  Likewise the Daily Mail-like industry that feeds off it.

While I can't condone unlawful activities, I have great sympathy and empathy for those who feel trapped and coping the very best they can.  I for one could not be the one to have them flogged and deported.

Best of luck to anyone stuck between 2 countries and their healthcare systems.  I hope a solution soon presents itself.

[PaulT]

Sorry, but can I ask 'what are the 'health care changes'?

(still resident in the UK)

Paul

[Ron Avery]

Ian,  Don't confuse these people with those who may be trapped in the future by not having healthcare in France due to existing conditions and unable to return to the UK.

The people we are talking about have been here years in many cases, and are scroungers who by choice live in France and are not obeying the laws of their adopted country.  They take money from gites rentals and filter it back to the UK and/or work cash in hand and paying no TVA or income tax nor do they make any contribution towards their healthcare costs.  They, by keeping the pretemce of a UK address, rely on the NHS to which they don't contribute either to to pay for healthcare that they are not entitled to.  By doing so these scroungers raise the tax burden and costs of everybody in France and the UK, especially those who do play by the rules. I am surprised that you think they should be wished well.

I hope WB is right about having to register, but in rural France I just cannot see it happening.

[Will]

Nothing is concrete yet, but it appears that the requirement to obtain a residence certificate from the mairie will apply only to new arrivals in France. In order to get such a certificate, you have to fulfil much the same conditions as for the titre de sejour. The certificate is for all Europeans, not just British. I would not be at all surprised if the requirement is subsequently extended to all non-Fremch residents who do not need titre de sejour.

As far as a rush to sell up is concerned, no sign of that in our part of France. There are always houses coming on to the market, and that does not change, but the supply of potenial buyers is, if anything, increasing. And a far higher proportion of those are serious clients rather than the larger proportion of dreamers we had during the 'Place in the Sun' inspired boom.

 

[cooperlola]

[quote user="P2"]

Sorry, but can I ask 'what are the 'health care changes'?

(still resident in the UK)

Paul

[/quote]See :

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/1035025/ShowPost.aspx

This post will be updated as the situation changes/is clarified further.

[BJSLIV]

it appears that the requirement to obtain a residence certificate from the mairie will apply only to new arrivals in France.

I suppose the only hope is that if there were to be a bureaucratic purge, then these people would be caught as new arrivals since they are legally not yet in France.

[woolybanana]

Will is probably right. I also feel it will eventually be applied to all foreigners living in France, but it will take a little time.

[Frederick]

Going slightly off topic as a holiday home owner who is covered by private medical insurance and not wishing to be  registered as a resident  and claim anything the above does not apply to me ..However ...having been visited this year by three members of the local constabulary. who wanted to know who has keys to my holiday home ...and.... last month  as the Impots office in Lucon sent me a standard printed form wanting to know my full name . and place and date of birth in the UK .I am now  begining to wonder whats changed ? ..

After 2 years ownership of the house  it seems  that records are  suddenly being brought up to date so the authorities know just who in the way of non French house occcupiers  they have and where ....They have requested details  from me that are required for a check on Police records..which is fine as far as I am concerned ....Pity the UK have not with their non UK house occupiers done the same .....I was told the information was needed to bring the computer records up to date ...if so ...its taken a while to get round to it .... so I think sombody has issued an instruction to find out who they have got now .

[cooperlola]

Fascinating, Frederick, and not off-topic at all.  I think that some of us, who pay our dues here and live here permanently, rather hope that something like this is going on.  There seem to be quite a few non-French who live here permanently but con everybody into thinking they're on holiday thus not paying what they should, unlike you for whom it really is a holiday home.

[Framboise]

I noticed on our Mairie's website that they do actually know exactly how many properties in their area are owned by non-French nationals.   It was marked in a separate paragraph for all to see.

[alison]

Trouble is you can read into it whatever you want but here is another slant that I saw in the 'connection' news today online:

'recent changes in French banks' lending policies along with a move away from long-term rental towards home ownership has boosted property prices in France. This, together with a supportive government policy and low interest rates, has made the purchase of French property attractive to UK buyers. One current area of high activity is equity release from French property, a product on offer from at least two French banks. This type of borrowing is available to both French and non-French national ..

So. what do you believe?

[Sprogster]

Panda, it is unlikely the proposed health care changes are having an impact as the majority of foreign owned private residences in France are second homes, whose owners are non French resident and therefore not effected.

However, what is having a discernable effect is the rise in interest rates and resulting credit squeeze, which is leading to a dramatic rise in borrowing costs for homeowners with mortgages and most second home owners have a mortgage on their primary or secondary property, if not both.

In the above circumstances, if the homeowner finds themselves financially overstretched often the first thing to go is the second home, as that is a luxury not a necessity.

Most of Europe is currently experiencing a much slower property market and in France over the last quarter average house prices have declined slightly for the first time in many years. Most property analysts now expect a correction or slow down in the property market throughout Europe over the next year or two and their opinions only differ by how much.