Chauffe'au Questions - Again

[Chancer]

[quote user="AnOther"][quote user="Chancer"][quote user="AnOther"]Yes, obviously, but what is the point of it coming on a say midnight or whenever it is and cycling even once or twice when all you need is for it to be on for long enough before you need the hot water in the morning ?

[/quote]The fact that the electricity costs 40% less during les heures creuse.[/quote]Am I really being so unclear ?

Yes, of course I know HC electricity is cheaper at night, a little credit please, and I'm not saying don't use it, only use it intelligently.

[/quote]

Yes it was unclear to me, or perhaps I am just dim,  you had already asked the question once before, then I remembered that at the bottom of  page 1 you asked what HP and HC were.

How much credit do you require? The reserves are rather low at the moment [;-)][:D]

[Dave&Olive]

hi ok

             If you turn off the cold water feed to the tank and the hot water still runs a bit when you open a hot tap ...there is a hole in it

     ie      it will empty  the tank depending on how far up the pipe the hole is

                      Dave

[UlsterRugby1999]

Thanks Dave - I'll do the test in the morning.

As an aside, why is that I cannot quote you. I get the non matching quote blocks in post thingy - only for Dave though [8-)]

[Clair]

[quote user="UlsterRugby1999"]As an aside, why is that I cannot quote you. I get the non matching quote blocks in post thingy - only for Dave though [8-)][/quote]Because of the "&" in Dave&Olive's username. When quoting, either remove it or replace it with "and".

[UlsterRugby1999]

[quote user="Clair"][quote user="UlsterRugby1999"]As an aside, why is that I cannot quote you. I get the non matching quote blocks in post thingy - only for Dave though [8-)][/quote]Because of the "&" in Dave&Olive's username. When quoting, either remove it or replace it with "and".[/quote]

Thank you Clair. Life is just one continual learning curve. [:)]

[UlsterRugby1999]

[quote user="DaveandOlive"]

hi ok

             If you turn off the cold water feed to the tank and the hot water still runs a bit when you open a hot tap ...there is a hole in it

     ie      it will empty  the tank depending on how far up the pipe the hole is

                      Dave[/quote]

Morning Dave - I turned off the cold feed and tried the hot water taps. Apart from a tiny drip for a second or two there was nothing. It was as if I had shut off the hot feed also.

[Sunday Driver]

No cold feed = no water pressure = tiny drip from the hot water tap.......?

Disclaimer:  I know nothing about plumbing. [:D]

 

[Dave&Olive]

hi ok

                 so the stack pipe is ok ..... must be the groupe de security    ..... we hope ... have you felt the drain getting warm from this ??

                              Dave

[UlsterRugby1999]

[quote user="DaveandOlive"]

hi ok

                 so the stack pipe is ok ..... must be the groupe de security    ..... we hope ... have you felt the drain getting warm from this ??

                              Dave[/quote]

To do this I need to dismantle half of the utility room. This is on the weekend work list so I'll get to do it then.

In the meantime, thanks for your help Dave and to everyone else for your input. I appreciate it all. Paul

[Dave&Olive]

[quote user="UlsterRugby1999"][quote user="DaveandOlive"]

hi ok

                 so the stack pipe is ok ..... must be the groupe de security    ..... we hope ... have you felt the drain getting warm from this ??

                              Dave[/quote]

To do this I need to dismantle half of the utility room. This is on the weekend work list so I'll get to do it then.

In the meantime, thanks for your help Dave and to everyone else for your input. I appreciate it all. Paul

[/quote]

    hi ok

                     if you can not get at the valve .......then how do you give it ...its monthly twist to clean it ???

                                                      Dave

[suein56]

[quote user="DaveandOlive"]....  if you can not get at the valve .......then how do you give it ...its monthly twist to clean it ???        [/quote]

What monthly twist to clean it?

Our chauffe-eau is 14.5 years old and it has never been touched at all. Crikey, poor thing must be suffering from neglect.

[UlsterRugby1999]

[quote user="suein56"][quote user="DaveandOlive"]....  if you can not get at the valve .......then how do you give it ...its monthly twist to clean it ???        [/quote]
What monthly twist to clean it?
Our chauffe-eau is 14.5 years old and it has never been touched at all. Crikey, poor thing must be suffering from neglect.[/quote]

Merciful God in Heaven - Sue you saved me asking the question. Do I need to twist it. I never knew. What does this twist do? Just when you thought it was safe to relax Dave - whats with this twist thing? [8-)][8-)]

[Chancer]

Its a purge valve used to empty the cylinder, it lifts the pressure release valve off its seat and allows the water to flow but in a stream (when fully opened) rather than a drip, drip as when the BDC is heating.

In a hard water area the drip drip leaves deposits of calc on the valve seat which in time makes it leak starting with dribble and eventually a stream.

If caught at the dribble stage opening the  valve will often scour the calc from the vale seat and fix the leak but you will find thereafter that you will have to do this at regular intervals hence the recommendation to do it once a month from new.

It also verifys that the pressure release valve does in fact work which is very important as the cylinders can and will explode without it.

The purge valve is the round tapered knurled plastic knob on the group de securité and you need a relatively strong grip to use it.

[UlsterRugby1999]

[quote user="Chancer"]

Its a purge valve used to empty the cylinder, it lifts the pressure release valve off its seat and allows the water to flow but in a stream (when fully opened) rather than a drip, drip as when the BDC is heating.

In a hard water area the drip drip leaves deposits of calc on the valve seat which in time makes it leak starting with dribble and eventually a stream.

If caught at the dribble stage opening the  valve will often scour the calc from the vale seat and fix the leak but you will find thereafter that you will have to do this at regular intervals hence the recommendation to do it once a month from new.

It also verifys that the pressure release valve does in fact work which is very important as the cylinders can and will explode without it.

The purge valve is the round tapered knurled plastic knob on the group de securité and you need a relatively strong grip to use it.[/quote]

Thanks Chancer - that makes clear sense to me. We are, indeed, in a very hard water area. Based on some of the earlier comments I rather suspect that when I empty the tank over the weekend to look inside it and around the element I am going to find some trouble.

With this in mind is it possible to actually get inside the ballon to clear calc depositis away and is it a case of undoing the element from its seat and accessing that way? Or - is it a case if it is calc'ed up that I must simply dispose of the ballon and replace it with another one?

[Chancer]

If you have the non blindée type where the resistance is in direct contact with the water you can just remove the element.

For the other type I am not sure as I dont know whether the blinding sleeve is removeable or a fixed part of the cylinder, I have a few in stock so could have a look but it should be clear to you when you remove the insulation cover.

[Department71]

Ulster,

Might be an idea to try and get a new gasket before you strip it down, we had an old Chauffe'au once about the same age as yours. I had to take the bottom plate off, the gasket was stuck to the metal due to age, although I managed to remove the gasket the thing was never fully water tight again as I had to reuse the old gasket.

Just an idea.

Steve

[UlsterRugby1999]

[quote user="Department71"]Ulster,
Might be an idea to try and get a new gasket before you strip it down, we had an old Chauffe'au once about the same age as yours. I had to take the bottom plate off, the gasket was stuck to the metal due to age, although I managed to remove the gasket the thing was never fully water tight again as I had to reuse the old gasket.
Just an idea.

Steve[/quote]

Sound advice Steve - thanks for that.

[quote user="Chancer"]

If you have the non blindée type where the resistance is in direct contact with the water you can just remove the element.

For the other type I am not sure as I dont know whether the blinding sleeve is removeable or a fixed part of the cylinder, I have a few in stock so could have a look but it should be clear to you when you remove the insulation cover.[/quote]

Thanks again Chancer - I'll do a wee bit of research before I start I think.

[Gardian]

UR99 .................

I had exactly the same problem as you about a year ago.  Hard water area too. 

I decided to replace the thing and be done with it: 150 litre tank and one of those 'elements' that don't touch the water (can't remember the name for it).  The whole lot, incl a new safety valve was just over €200 I think (Leroy Merlin).

Afterwards I did an autopsy on the old one, partly out of interest and partly because it was too heavy and cumbersome to get in to the car!  I reckon that I was losing about 40% water capacity because of the crap inside it: crucially, it would have been quite difficult to remove in situ because it was like a sort of gooey mush.

Unless you're a wizz at plumbing, these sort of jobs always take longer than they should and being without hot water when you need it is never popular!  Didn't regret the full change rather than a bodge-up and no problems since (once I'd fixed the leak caused by my initial amateurish plumbing!)  Oh, and bags of hot water when there are 4 or 5 of us in the house.   

[UlsterRugby1999]

[quote user="Gardian"]

UR99 .................

I had exactly the same problem as you about a year ago.  Hard water area too. 

I decided to replace the thing and be done with it: 150 litre tank and one of those 'elements' that don't touch the water (can't remember the name for it).  The whole lot, incl a new safety valve was just over €200 I think (Leroy Merlin).

Afterwards I did an autopsy on the old one, partly out of interest and partly because it was too heavy and cumbersome to get in to the car!  I reckon that I was losing about 40% water capacity because of the crap inside it: crucially, it would have been quite difficult to remove in situ because it was like a sort of gooey mush.

Unless you're a wizz at plumbing, these sort of jobs always take longer than they should and being without hot water when you need it is never popular!  Didn't regret the full change rather than a bodge-up and no problems since (once I'd fixed the leak caused by my initial amateurish plumbing!)  Oh, and bags of hot water when there are 4 or 5 of us in the house.   [/quote]

Starman Gardian - I had hoped not to do this but I kind of guessed that it would come to that. Can anyone tell me the name of the ballon where the element doesnt touch the water. Is this the blindee type that Chancer mentioned. This area is so water hard it appears as you watch it. Or will the filter system that I have now installed to the cold feed for the CE keep me out of trouble.

[Chancer]

Resistance Steatite.

I am not convinced that they are of benefit in hard water areas as th ballon seems to sludge/calc up long before the element burns out, I dont think that they reduce the formation of calcaire either.

A water filter wont help you IMHO but an adoucisseur will.

I have some very expensive Pacific brand ballons that have a titanium anode and a galvanic current protection circuit, they came out of a property in a hard water area and have had very little use as witnessed by the water meters on each apartment, some of them when shaken sound like they have calc crystals inside.

The one that was lying on the floor of my cellar that I cut up to manhandle was virtually full to the brim with calc wheras its replacemnt which had been fed by a adoucisseur I re-used without problem although the adoucisseur was foutu.

Why dont you buy a new one, fit it and then you can tinker with your old one to your hearts content, if you manage to reclaim it you will then have a spare to fit in another 5 years.

[UlsterRugby1999]

[quote user="Chancer"]

Resistance Steatite.

I am not convinced that they are of benefit in hard water areas as th ballon seems to sludge/calc up long before the element burns out, I dont think that they reduce the formation of calcaire either.

A water filter wont help you IMHO but an adoucisseur will.

Why dont you buy a new one, fit it and then you can tinker with your old one to your hearts content, if you manage to reclaim it you will then have a spare to fit in another 5 years.[/quote]

Thank you to everyone for your input. I appreciate it all no matter how big or small.

I have raced off to Poitiers this morning and bought a 200 Ltr ballon Resistance Steatite along with a new Groupe de Securite Teflonne. While I understand what you say Chancer re the water filter system we havent had any furring in the kettle since it went in so I'll run with it and see. At least its better than what was there prior to the filter going in recently and hopefully between the 2 new elements and the filter system I might have half a chance of getting more than 4 or 5 years out of a ballon.

Good luck everyone. Paul

[Gardian]

Try to get a helping hand when removing the old one - potentially hernia-inducing![blink]

[UlsterRugby1999]

[quote user="Gardian"]Try to get a helping hand when removing the old one - potentially hernia-inducing![blink][/quote]

Under normal circumstances I'd laugh at that but having acquired my first (and last I hope) hernia towards the end of the year, I'll follow your sound advice. When can you make it here. [;-)][Www][;-)]

[Dave&Olive]

hi ok

           sing this at the next 5  nations  and i will give you a free lift

      

Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau Mae hen wlad fy nhadau yn annwyl i mi, Gwlad beirdd a chantorion, enwogion o fri; Ei gwrol ryfelwyr, gwladgarwyr tra mad, Tros ryddid collasant eu gwaed. Cytgan Gwlad, gwlad, pleidiol wyf i'm gwlad, Tra môr yn fur I'r bur hoffbau, O bydded i'r heniaith barhau. Hen Gymru fynyddig, paradwys y bardd, Pob dyffryn, pob clogwyn, i'm golwg sydd hardd; Trwy deimlad gwladgarol, mor swynol yw si Ei nentydd, afonydd, i mi. Cytgan   Os treisiodd y gelyn fy ngwlad dan ei droed, Mae hen iaith y Gymry mor fyw ag erioed, Ni luddiwyd yr awen gan erchyll law brad, Na thelyn berseiniol fy ngwlad. Cytgan Dave  every thing has a price

[powerdesal]

[quote user="DaveandOlive"]

hi ok

           sing this at the next 5  nations  and i will give you a free lift

      

Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau Mae hen wlad fy nhadau yn annwyl i mi, Gwlad beirdd a chantorion, enwogion o fri; Ei gwrol ryfelwyr, gwladgarwyr tra mad, Tros ryddid collasant eu gwaed. Cytgan Gwlad, gwlad, pleidiol wyf i'm gwlad, Tra môr yn fur I'r bur hoffbau, O bydded i'r heniaith barhau. Hen Gymru fynyddig, paradwys y bardd, Pob dyffryn, pob clogwyn, i'm golwg sydd hardd; Trwy deimlad gwladgarol, mor swynol yw si Ei nentydd, afonydd, i mi. Cytgan   Os treisiodd y gelyn fy ngwlad dan ei droed, Mae hen iaith y Gymry mor fyw ag erioed, Ni luddiwyd yr awen gan erchyll law brad, Na thelyn berseiniol fy ngwlad. Cytgan Dave  every thing has a price

[/quote]

But dont try it the way it reads, get a phonetic translation  ( eg, Gwlad is pronounced 'glad' and the 'h' in chantorion is silent, with a 'hard' c - there is more of course)  [:D]