buying a cheap property to renovate

[Gazza123]

Hi all, firstly may I say what a great site and forum. Planning on finding a cheap property to renovate somewhere in south west or middle of France. Have a budget of around 60k, thats to buy and renovate.I will be doing most of the work myself, the only thing I cant do are the electrics, so money is tight

I am packing in work and expect to build through the summer months...........I will hopefully finish by the end of the summer. I may need to sell to survive and  rebuy and start again. I ultimately want to get where I really want to be and retire in 4 years time and draw my pension.

Just a few questions-Whats the market like at the moment are properties being sold? and  How long on average to purchase a property?

I would appreciate any advise anyone can give me.

Many thanks

Gary

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

I don't think France is the place to buy, renovate and sell on for a profit.

Others can confirm, but I think you get hit by a lot of taxes if you renovate and then sell within 3 years. Apparently the French government doesn't like development, too capitalist for them.

It takes on average about 3 months to buy a property and god knows how long to sell.

[AnOther]

Welcome to the forum.

What Richard said plus, IMO, 60k (whether that's £ or €) is hopelessly inadequate to both buy and

restore.

Whatever the actual numbers too many people still seem to be under the illusion that you can buy for x, spend x restoring, and then sell for x+x +x profit but it just doesn't work like that here.

10 years ago you might have stood a chance of pulling it off but these days I think if you broke even you could say that you'd done OK.

[Anton Redman II]

The gap between what the purchaser pays and the vendor receives assuming you use an Estate Agent in France is roughly 17%. Only invoices from registered Artisans for repairs are allowed against capital gain on sale of house, materials are no allowed unless you register and pay tax and cotisations/NIC as a developer. There is no shortage of building land in France and or the same quality and space a new build is normally quicker and cheaper to do than a renovation. The only areas in France where you budget might be enough are Departments which had too many houses and not enough jobs 10 years ago. Much of the market there is now flooded with complete and incomplete renovations which people are struggling to sell.

[andyh4]

Added to which, most French would prefer to buy a new build and most Brits, Dutch, Germans, Belgians etc are still feeling squeezed by the economic situation and are not inclined to purchase a second home just now - indeed many are trying to sell theirs.

[LesFlamands]

I can only speak about this area (Dordogne).

To do a basic renovation including bathroom and kitchen you should allow 30k euros especially if you are living off the money whilst doing the work. The worst situation would be running out of money before completing the job so you need to be realistic. This means you would have to find a property with a sound roof (and, probably, access to mains drains) for 30k euros which would be very hard to find around here.

You would be able to buy a property in about 2 months if the Notaire can be bothered (allow 10% for transaction costs) but selling can take a long time plus very hard to make a profit

[Quillan]

There are loads of reasons why, more so than people here have mentioned. So my advice would be... don't do it. If you want cheap property look at Spain and in particular the banks who are 'giving' it away just to get their money back.

[Clarkkent]

[quote user="Gazza123"]...  the only thing I cant do are the electrics, so money is tight ... [/quote]

Just to give you some idea of costs - I have a small 40 year-old two-bedroomed single storey house. I have had it rewired to modern norms and have had no change from €8000.

Most people I know say that when renovating, calculate the the final cost ... and double it.

[Bob T]

I know of someone who has been looking for a cheap property to renovate for about 10 years now. Since he started his search he has visited the Dordogne twice a year, without finding the one he wants. House prices have gone up in the 10 years and sterling has gone down, but he still dreams.

[just john]

There really isn't a way to let you down lightly, although there is a couple of properties quite near me you might be interested in, one recently up for sale for €33,000. (and NO it isn't my place[:D]) It is about 300yds off the road with its own drive and a view over farmland, about 3-4 k from a choice of quite nice villages. The house itself hasn't been lived in for half a century so will need updating, probably best start with re-rendering the walls to hold it all together, all the windows, doors, and shutters need replacing, mostly because they're not there anymore, well come to that neither is the roof but you would need to follow local style in your replacements. When you have done that probably best start on the inside, quite a few choices on style here principally because there is nothing there, so best get the joists, floors and staircase in first, bathroom and kitchen next, though this was a house that didn't have electricity or water installed actually in the house, it is available on the road, so just run a trench into the drive to run pipe and cable supply in, while you're at it, might as well surface the drive since it is just a mud track at the mo, almost impassable in winter. Having got the leccy in of course you'll need to install wiring into the house, since there has never previously been a supply the leccy board will need an independent inspection of the work done in order to connect you. The water in has got to go out again of course so you'll need a fosse (ah the joys of country living[:)]) they too have standards these days. Depending on the labour employed, it could be done for somewhere between €90k and €180k, I should think when finished depending on specification it should be worth €150k to €220k less agents commission of course. Alternatively there is a rather nice plot available for a new build for €40k, build costs somewhere between  €90k and €180k depending on specification it should be worth €200k to €300k less agents commission of course. Most people seem to go for the new build and ignore the character stuff, dunno why[Www]

After all that I would say you need to do more research on prices of sale properties and build costs, opportunities are there and I wouldn't want to put you off in any way, just don't wear shades[8-|]

[frexpt]

I regret that I can only endorse what has been said above and add that materials are incredibly expensive in France, compared to the UK.  You can also forget any significant discounts from suppliers.  Furthermore the property market is saturated with just about every shape, size, age and price for sale.

We have been involved in property matters for many years in the UK and would modestly claim to be fairly experienced.  We marketed our house here in the middle part of last year and it has been presented in pristine condition for each of the 13 viewings we have had.  We have received bucket-loads compliments on the house, but no takers, simply because there is always something else available, not quite as good, but a little cheaper.  We are assured by the agents that the price is realistic, but we have still reduced this, with no joy........

We have found that France is also an expensive place to live, certainly compared to Spain and Portugal and we believe that the UK shopping basket is much cheaper, item on item.....but that is a matter of recurring debate on this forum.

If you are tight on money, France is not for you............I'd look at mid or north Portugal, a country where they do genuinely like the Brits.

All that said, France is a great place to live if the money side is not a problem and you make an effort with the language...........

[Gazza123]

Thanks for you posts

My only concerns were selling on and as most of you have said my budget is to tight. It has been may dream to do this, however I may well have to soldier on for a few more years I feel. I appreciate all your sound advise, which has effectively made me seriously think again.

Good luck to you all, france I beleive is a lovely place to live....................one day I hope.

Kind regards

[Quillan]

A very wise man.

[ericd]

Would Britanny be of interest to you ? If yes I will pm.

[pachapapa]

I live in deux-sèvres which has older properties at reasonable prices. The notaires are likely to have older properties at more realistic prices than an estate agent. Frankly I think you would be better looking for something which is already habitable but requires some serious work input to improve the comfort of the house. Whilst you may get a wreck for € 20,000 with a lot of work to restore to an acceptable standard; € 30,000 might get you something habitable but with some serious construction; € 40,000 would get something livable in with more of a need for decoration and tidying up. The link opens on the online immoblier section for the Chamber of Notaires for deux-sevres with selection for houses and price increasing as pages progress. There are some 5000 houses listed but it will give you an idea of what is available.

http://www.chambre-deux-sevres.notaires.fr/annonces-immobilieres/?advert_search%5Bdealing_type%5D=buy&advert_search%5Bproperty_type%5D=MI&advert_search%5Blocation%5D=&advert_search%5Bmax_price%5D=&advert_refine%5Bproximity%5D=&advert_refine%5Bmin_price%5D=&advert_refine%5Binternal_reference%5D=&advert_refine%5Bmag_reference%5D=&page=1

 

[Anton Redman II]

I would also start a sample of thirty houses similar to what you propose to buy but renovated and see how long they take to sell. Unlike the UK many French Immos will list houses at what the vendor wants rather than what the market will pay.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="ericd"]

Would Britanny be of interest to you ? If yes I will pm.

[/quote]

[:D][IMG]http://images.20minutes.fr/img/home/front-34-image-r99dcf80-efd2-69ca-6d3c-0c1a04e9ff0f.jpeg?[/IMG]

[mint]

Pacha, that's not fair.  There are lots of lovely places in Brittany. 

[pachapapa]

[quote user="sweet 17"]Pacha, that's not fair.  There are lots of lovely places in Brittany. [/quote]

Very true! But the RATP refused to carry the publicity due to la plus grande ferme de france.[;-)]So I slipped it in.

[PaulT]

[quote user="Gazza123"]Thanks for you posts

My only concerns were selling on and as most of you have said my budget is to tight. It has been may dream to do this, however I may well have to soldier on for a few more years I feel. I appreciate all your sound advise, which has effectively made me seriously think again.

Good luck to you all, france I beleive is a lovely place to live....................one day I hope.

Kind regards
[/quote]

wow, someone who listened instead of dismissing the sound advice of the knowledgeable. A wise decision Gazza.

When we were looking for property we were taken to a few restoration projects that Brits were obviously finding more expensive than they anticipated so were getting out.

Oh, how did I know they were Brits - the cardboard wrappers from the kitchen units had B&Q on them.

Paul

[AnOther]

I must admit that when we started looking the brief was for a habitable renovation however it took little more than a day to realise that 'habitable' meant something radically different to a French Immo than it did to us plus the degrees of renovation were mostly way beyond what I was able or prepared to take on so we quickly ditched the idea and finally ending up buying what we had said from the outset we didn't want, a 70's property, in hindsight this turned out to be exactly the right choice.