parsnips

[quote user="sweet 17"]local authority pension, svp. A bagatelle of a pension from Dorset County Council coming into effect from last year, so this is the very first time I am entering this sort of income. So, just to help me avoid any mistakes and indeed to compound the mistakes year on year, please tell me if I shall be doing the right thing: enter the pension in the usual 1BS lumped togther with my state pension and then enter the gross amount of the LA pension in  Box 8TK? Will that be my "get out of jail" card? [/quote] Hi,  That's correct , but also enter on page 1 of 2047 (lumped with other pensions) and LA pension gross at page 4 sec VI.

[quote user="nomoss"]I did mine on line a couple of days ago, and the system automatically transferred my UK bank interest figure from the pink form to box 2TS on the blue one. I wondered about it when I read the text, but thought heigh ho, who am I to argue with the well-oiled tax machine[:D] [/quote]Hi,        The reason they are both put under 2TS is that under 8 years there is no abattement for LA withdrawals , so for income tax they are the same as bank interest.     For french bank interest and LA, which are subject to CSG at source ,  there is an additional box  at 2BH  to to prevent CSG from being taken twice .  As UK bank interest has not yet been subject to CSG, it is entered only at 2TS.

[quote user="Mac"]What details do you need to give? Bank name,sort code, address? Thanks[/quote] Hi,      I have always put just bank name and account number.

[quote user="You can call me Betty"][quote user="parsnips"] , quite rightly , you no longer get an allowance for children you no longer have to support.                                                  [/quote] Nowt to do with tax, but hands up all those who have managed to stop supporting their children at 18...or even 19, 20 or any number above that? Especially in the current economic climate? In the UK, where there isn't any allowance as such in the first place, you can send your kids off the University at 18, when you are no longer even entitled to family allowance or whatever it's now called, and they're considered to be financially independent, yet the amount of student loan and living allowance they can receive is based.....on their parents' income. Don't get me wrong, we've paid and are still paying, to a certain extent, to ensure our children are not getting into debt or financial difficulty. It's funny, though, that governments (certainly the UK one, anyway) have double standards when it comes to over-18's. If they do go on to further education, then the government is quite happy to base any assistance given on the parents' income until they leave at 22 or 23. [/quote] Hi,    If the OP thinks his children are still dependent on him, he can claim  allowances , or "attach" them to his foyer fiscal;  He should research this in the notice to form 2042.

[quote user="Lehaut"]I did read the thread of this post, but thought as an ex UK government employee forced to pay tax in the UK, I would never pay tax on it in France. However, the recent changes alter this situation as our children leave home, the "parts" decrease and the derisory credit the French apply to my pension (less than a 10th of the amount I actually pay in the UK) means that I will pass the French first tax barrier. For those who can choose where to pay tax, its a good system, for those who cannot, it seems to be a change for the worse. Am I missing something?[/quote] Hi,       Yes , you are missing something. 2 things in fact;    1. AFAIK no private individual can legally choose where he pays his taxes.                                                                                   2.Any argument you have is with the UK tax regime; the "derisory" credit the french give on your UK govt. pension, is, in accordance with the treaty, to exempt it from the "derisory" amount of french tax which would otherwise be due.   There is , and never was , even under the "old" treaty, any mechanism for France to give a credit to mitigate your UK tax.         If your UK tax is 10 times what the french tax would be ,and you think that is excessive, then that is a problem between you and the UK revenue and the rate at which they tax your pension  , and nothing to do with the french tax system.         Your french tax has increased because , quite rightly , you no longer get an allowance for children you no longer have to support.                                                 

[quote user="evelyna"]My mother-in-law passed away in December 2013 in UK where she had lived for most of her life although she was French. She owned a property in France which was her parents' home. She leaves behind her husband, a daughter and a son (my husband). She had no French will,only a UK one. Can anyone tell me who I need to inform about her death as all I can find on the web is to do with a person dying in France. I think I know the Notaire that was involved with the family so will go and see him first but what paperwork do I need for instance? Death certificate? Copy of the English will? Is the Mairie involved?[/quote] Hi,      French law applies to french sited real estate.   Generally, without a french will, the parts of the heirs, husband 1/3, and two children 1/3 each ,all in full title, are fixed.  However , if she leaves a properly drawn up and witnessed UK will( which is recognised as a legal instrument in France), which expresses different wishes more favourable to her husband, say, then the french notaire should follow her wishes inasmuch as they do not conflict with french law.   In a case where the english will left everything to the husband , the notaire would probably apply the rules of a "donation entre époux" which would allow the husband to take a life interest  in the whole property, or part in full title and the rest in life interest.   He could also decline to take these advantages and let it pass as under intestacy,( as above).   

[quote user="sweet 17"]Someone, PLEASE make Parsnip's link clickable [:)][/quote] Hi,      It's done now, but all you needed to do was drag the link from my post to the search box in another window.

[quote user="NormanH"]Thanks for that but given that publications record for getting things wrong I will wait for the official site. In any case the link they give to supposedly new forms explains: Les formulaires de déclaration 2014 n’étant pas validés par l’administration fiscale à la date de parution de notre ouvrage, les informations figurant dans les rubriques « Comment déclarer » reprennent celles issues des formulaires de 2013 [:D] [/quote] Hi,    Here is the information from a reliable source (Le Particulier Magazine); www.leparticulier.fr/jcms/p1_1556634/le-guide-des-impots-2014-est-mis-a-jour

[quote user="You can call me Betty"]If it's any consolation, my UK bank contacted me last year, asking me to provide documents confirming my first name, as they claimed they had no record of it. As I've been banking with them since 1979, this came as something of a surprise, not least because that also precedes my marriage: after which I had to go in and give them my marriage certificate and my new signature. I also have a credit card from the same bank which clearly has my first name printed on it. I ignored their requests for quite a while, till they started to threaten me with closing my account. Eventually, when it was convenient to me, I went into a local branch with the required documents, and asked them if they could explain how such seemingly basic information could have eluded them for the best part of thirty-odd years. They couldn't. [/quote] Hi,      Banks in both the UK and France are increasingly demanding this sort of thing; I am sure at least some of it is required by the government ("money-laundering" prevention), but I have received letters which included questions about my assets held in other banks and investment products - this is obvious fishing by the bank for marketing purposes, and I never reply to those types of question.

[quote user="mellybelly"]Hi, Hope someone can answer this question. We have moved back to the UK so are no longer resident in France although we do still own our house there, and have been trying to sell for the last 18 months. This will be the first tax year (last years declaration of earnings) that we will have no earnings in France to declare on our tax return. Is there a process for this or do we simply put on our tax return that we had no earnings and tell them that we are no longer resident from this tax year ? Any info will be appreciated. Thank you in advance. Mel.[/quote] Hi,         If you have been french tax resident for 2 years or more at any time in the past, you will not be liable for french CGT when you do sell your french house.  ( CGI art,150 U ll.2°).       If your length of residence is around  2 years, you might want to adjust the date of leaving to be sure of 2 full years.

[quote user="powerdesal"]I understand that 2013 tax returns will be due in May. This will be the first time we will be doing this. I have read the tax 'sticky' and can probably manage the routine stuff but.......we have some investments that generate an income, these are 'income bonds'. I don't think they class as 'dividends', nor are they bank account interest and they are not a 'private pension'. The question is - how do we report the income ? The sticky states that you list all your bank accounts outside France, I haven't seen the forms yet but does the listing have to include the amount of cash in each account ? We were considering the services of an accountant but are now questioning whether we actually need one as our finances are reasonably straightforward, apart from the above investment question. Any thoughts, comments, etc etc will be more than welcome.[/quote] Hi,       Provided there is an element (however small - 1% is usual) of life cover - you declare as I set out in this answer on this forum;       services.completefrance.com/forums/completefrance/cs/forums/3052927/ShowPost.aspx  on  18/01/2014.

[quote user="pomme"]The bond was recommended in different proposals I had from Siddalls and Blevins in 2002. More recently, when I was discussing a different matter with another English-speaking France-based IFA the problem of IoM life insurance not qualifying for favourable tax in France was mentioned. Internet searches seemed to indicate the same. When I originally telephoned to make an appointment about how the assurance vie profit should be declared he misunderstood Ile de Man as Allemagne. It took some explaining as he'd obviously not heard of it and didn't know where it was. So he'd done research by the time of the office visit. I spent more time yesterday on internet research and looking through BROCHURE PRATIQUE 2013 - DÉCLARATION DES REVENUS 2012 http://www2.impots.gouv.fr/documentation/2013/brochure_ir/index.html .There seem to be several references to IoM, Jersey, Guernsey, etc being excluded as they are not in the EU. I'm not sure just declaring a 40K life insurance gain without backing explanation would get through any examination and would only result, in the end, for the need to pay the correct taxes, etc.[/quote] Hi,    Why not take this up with Siddalls who recommended it?

[quote user="pomme"]I finally went in to the local tax office today to clarify the tax situation having forewarned I wanted to discuss taxation on an IoM life insurance bond. As the Isle of Man (and Jersey and Guernsey) aren't part of the EU they do not come under the tax convention. Therefore the standard rules for allowances, etc for assurance vie do not apply. Any gain is treated as an ordinary gain with an entry on form 2047 in line TR and on form 2042 in line 2TR. So the gain is taxed at the standard scale rates together with CSG at 15.5%.[/quote] Hi,     This seems to suggest that if taken out before becoming french resident, plans which satisfy EU regs for life assurance are treated as such in France .  www.ailo.org/help/france.pdf      Don't ever fall into the trap of thinking that because the local tax office says something , they will be right.   If it's outside the everyday , they will be often guessing.      The best thing is to declare the figures on your  2042 (as an assurance vie ) and don't go into any more detail.

[quote user="Loiseau"]QUOTE GYN PAUL That doesn't sound markedly different from the current 'default position' as it stands at the moment.  My understanding of a DeE is that which ever is the surviving partner is deemed to be the full owner if the property is jointly owned, which doesn't get us past the need to somehow change the property to joint ownership. END QUOTE The donation doesn't make the survivor the full owner where there are children. It merely prevents the children turfing out the survivor so as to grab their due inheritance right away, but they will have it in the end. In our case we jointly owned our property from the start, but in the scenario you mentioned, I think if the couple are married it might not be too different. They should ask a notaire, to know exactly where they stand. Angela[/quote] Hi,   Loiseau is correct about the effect of the "donation entre epoux",  But if the survivor wishes to remain in the house , it is by far the easiest and cheapest solution.   Much depends on how the step mother gets on with the children .  

[quote user="Stuart"]I am a UK resident and the sole beneficiary under my aunts Will. My aunt is resident in France and lives in the house she owns there. Am I right in thinking that as my aunts' nephew, I would be liable for 55% inheritance tax on her estate? Any advice would be most appreciated. Kind regards Stuart [/quote] After a tax-free allowance of  7 967€ the rate is 55%.

[quote user="EuroTrash"]It's the fact that your healthcare is taken care of by the UK via your S1s that exempts you from CSG. If you work or start any kind of business activity in France that would in theory invalidate your S1s. You would pay cotisations directly into the French social security system instead, and therefore would become liable to CSG on your worldwide income. Whether or not you can earn money from horse breeding without registering and forming some kind of business structure I don't know, maybe it depends how many horses and what acreage etc, but it seems highly unlikely, and any kind of agricultural / livestock business is MSA territory which is a minefield in itself.[/quote] Hi,       I am fairly sure that is not correct.   See this article; : http://www.french-property.com/news/money_france/retirement_pension_social_charges/ In particular this ; "In addition, not everyone who starts a business will obtain pension rights; if this is the case, then on retirement you would obtain health cover through the reciprocal S1 arrangements, provided you were in receipt of a State Pension from your home EEA country." It also states that you are also not obliged to claim any (usually minimal) french pension rights which you may accumulate.

[quote user="pomme"]Thank you for your advice. I assume that means there is no special treatment for IoM life insurance (as IoM isn't in the EU) and they are treated in the same way as French assurance vie? Regarding the likely tax, how does the 7.5% rate work? As I am married, would that effectively be 7.5% of half the 40,000€ or 7.5% of the whole 40,000€ (less the 9200€ reduction)? The money would only be a loan to one of the children, not a gift.[/quote] Hi,      As far as I am aware such contracts are treated the same as any other EU or EEC life assurance .    The determining factor is the mention of some element of life cover in the contract (typically 1%).       The proceeds will form part of the income of your "foyer fiscal" ie the couple , as with all other income of french residents.   Tax is only due on the gains or interest , and most of the withdrawal will consist of non taxable capital -ie your original deposit.  The 9200€ reduction will be applied to the gain , and the residue is the taxable amount ( CSG will apply to the whole of the gain , but again,not to the capital element ).       As it will be a loan (presumably interest - free),  if you wish to avoid any succession issue , you should draw up a simple loan agreement -preferably including your wife as co-lender, showing the amount and an ultimate repayment date, (which could be at the succession of the surviving spouse).  

[quote user="minnie"]Will there be further complications with regard to the division of the estate when pomme dies i.e. that he has preferred one of his children? To counter this should he declare to the authorities what he has done?[/quote] Hi,       The cash-in should  be declared    What he does with the cash is up to him  .   Cash gifts (dons manuels) are required to be declared in only two situations ;   1. where the recipient is asked by the french tax office where they got a large sum in their french bank account.               and 2. at the succession of the donor , when the recipient  is supposed to reveal it to the notaire.  If, as I suppose, pomme' s children are in the UK , it will be seen that 1. will not apply, and unless any siblings make an issue of it at his succession, neither will 2. if the recipient keeps mum.                                In french families these things are usually brought to the attention of the tax office /notaire  by disgruntled siblings.

[quote user="pomme"]I am French tax resident. I have had an IoM Insurance bond since 2003. The bond has an element of life insurance. I am now thinking of cashing in the bond to help with a deposit for house purchase for one of my children. The interest will be about 40,000€. Can someone help me with which lines on the French tax form I would need to use to declare this interest so I can use one of the online calculators to estimate the likely tax/social charges? I believe there may be a special treatment for IoM (and Jersey?) life insurance?[/quote] Hi,       The bond should be declared in the same way as a french life assurance cash- in.  Form 2042 page 3 sec 2  box 2CH.   After a tax free allowance of 4600€ (single) or 9200(married) the gain will be taxed at your marginal rate , or you can opt for taxation at 7.5%.  You would need to put a note on the declaration , and possibly provide documentation .         The whole of the gain is subject to CSG at 15.5%.          If the potential tax bill is high you could possibly put an entry at page 2 sec 4 box 0XX for a treatment which spreads and reduces the bill for "exceptional "revenues.  In this case put nothing anywhere else on the form and a brief note in the "revenus exceptionnels " section.  Expect to have to discuss with tax office.

[quote user="Nicola"]Sorry, this may have been covered before but I can't find exactly the answers I am looking for. My husband is retired (over 65) with a UK pension on which he does not pay social charges.   I am not yet of pensionable age.  If I earned money on which I payed cotisations  could I  assume that my husband's pension would not be affected?  I have read somewhere that if one starts earning any money after retirement on which cotisations are paid, then UK pension becomes subject to social charges too! Any information greatly appreciated  [/quote] Hi,     This is , as so often in France , a bit of a "grey" area.   It has to do with where you first claim your state pension, so your husband's is , I am sure ,safe.  If you were to be employed in a position where you paid into the french pension system , and I think this is not always automatic (perhaps members with personal knowledge will advise) - then you may not be able to claim your UK state pension from the UK , but have to get it from the french pension caisse, who will pay a combined pension.   It is possible , and some people have experienced this, that the UK  would not issue a form S 1  for you , and you would have to pay french CSG on your pension.      I believe there are other forum members who will have something to contribute to this thread.

[quote user="Hereford"]Absolutely. Don't forget Restos du Coeur. Lots more customers this year we have found in our local town.  Give them money, get the tax relief and think about volunteering too. A brilliant way to improve your French as a bonus. [/quote] Hi,      Not just for charities in the usual sense, I get 66% refund for donations to "Contribuables Associés" a movement dedicated to fighting government waste of tax-payers' money.

[quote user="Lottylala"]We have a house in the UK which is in trust to my husband.  We rent it out (all legally under the trust) and any income we receive is declared in UK and France.  My main question is should the Trustee's be declaring anything to the French government?  I just read an article that was posted on this site at the beginning of the year about buying property here and putting it in trust to try and avoid tax's.  The house has been in trust to my husband for over 20 years and we have been here for 5 years so I am wondering if this would fall under the category of trustee's having to declare here as well or they risk huge fines. [/quote] Hi,        This is really one for the professionals as there have been recent changes in the french treatment of trusts ; my (totally unexpert ) feeling is that as the trust is in the UK ,on a UK immoveable asset, the trustees should not have any declaration requirements in France , but with this government , who knows?        Contact someone like Kentingtons at .......  www.kentingtons.com

[quote user="PaulT"]http://tinyurl.com/ngavee8[/quote] No, but I have recently switched to "Transferwise"  from my pension payer's contract with "Western Union " and am absolutely delighted .   Transfers are consistently made at an all-in cost of about0.06centimes per £.   Take a look at their website.

[quote user="Grecian"]Well I think you deserve your own thread parsnips, as a way of thanking you for sorting out my tax credit problem, and I am sure lots of other people would like to express their gratitude with the help you have given to them, and by putting the words tax credit in the title maybe it will help people in the future when they search the forum. Having lived in France for 5 years now I have always used an account to fill in our tax returns, as I must admit I was totally baffled with all the different boxes that had to be filled in. I had a 3-year contract with the accountant which expired this year, and I had intended to fill in our own tax returns from next year. This year I received an e-mail from our accountant telling me he was breaking the contract, and nearly doubling the fee he was proposing to charge us, so I politely told him where to go. I completed this years return copying exactly what he had done for previous years, that included not submitting a 2042C form showing my tax credit amount I had entered on the 2047 form, so subsequently we were not receiving the tax credit due to us. After confronting the 'accountant' he claimed 'most offices' take the figure from the 2047 form, ours obviously was not. Maybe I could accept this argument, but the 'accountant' also provided us with a projection of what our tax and social charges should be for each of the years he completed the returns for us, he did not take off the tax credit for any of the years returns, and so when the tax and social charge bills arrived it was corresponding with what the 'accountant' had told us to expect, so I thought we were paying the correct amounts of tax and social charges. Having read by chance the thread titled 'Form 2042CK' stated by knee gel, and then  asking you several questions parsnips I became aware that I had not submitted a 2042C form for any of the previous five years. So I took your advice and printed off the last 3 years 2042C forms, which I duly completed, and myself and my wife cobbled together a covering letter trying to explain our mistake. After about 6 weeks we received a letter telling us that indeed we were entitled to the aforementioned tax credits and we will receive a tax rebate for 2011, 2012 and 2013. [:)] Which now we have received. Taking into account the tax credit, we ended up not paying any income tax for 2011 and 2012 [:)] and massively reduced our bill for this year. So parsnips thank you very much for all your help and advice, it really is much appreciated, I really do not know how you know all the things that you do, but I am sure lots of people appreciate all you help. [/quote]  Hi,     Thank you, I'm glad I was able to help.   I have studied the french tax system as a sort of paying hobby, since being baffled  (and over-charged ) ,when we first arrived here 21 years ago.  (I was briefly a tax officer in the Inland Revenue when I left school in the 50s).      Having sorted out my own situation, I have , since getting a computer, been trying to use what I have gradually got to know to help the growing number of expats who are being badly served and over taxed by the chaotic french tax system.     I don't foresee retiring from that function any time soon.

[quote user="EuroTrash"]"my income is below the ceiling of taxable income and should also be exonerated from CSG charges. " Is the CSG threshhold the same as the income tax threshold? I earned a small amount (from memory around £1000) in the UK last year, taxed PAYE, and my tax return showed a tiny amount of CSG payable, so tiny in fact that they didn't impose it and my bill was 0. All my other earnings were AE with income tax deducted quarterly so the CSG could only have resulted from the very small UK earnings, which would not have exceed any threshold. Also, would this not be a good thing for people who live in France and have earned income from the UK? Income tax in the UK is usually more than impots sur revenu in France so it negates French liability with some to spare. If CSG is classed as impots sur revenu, the spare income tax paid in the UK would actually go towards reducing it, no?.[/quote] Hi,       Some pension income is exempt from CSG (dependent on total income) see here; service.cipav-retraite.fr/cipav/article-81-exoneration-de-csg-et-crds-115.htm CSG of less than 61 € is not collected.