how realistic is our budget ?

[yvonne]

We will be talking early retirement in just over 2 years time and would love to retire to France. Our pension income at 55 & 60 would be £18,000 per year ( pensions) rising to £30,000 once we reach state pensionable age five years later.

 

We would have about £200,000 to buy a property outright ( something fairly small in good condition with no less than an acre of land and in the countryside ) this would also leave us with a 'rainy day' pot of around £30,000 - we have thought about buying a plot of land and building something to suit. How realistic would this be  financially ? and where should we be looking ? - we want good long summers but also  green countryside. we are going to look at the Lot region this summer but friends have also told us to look at the Auvergne and the Limousin -.

Also what would be the likelihood of being able to work part time ? - I am half French and am a fluent French speaker - I currently work as a teacher for children with severe and profound learning disorders but have extensive general teaching experience so could maybe teach English in the local schools ? -

I would appreciate your honest thoughts about how realistic our retirement plans are !.

 

 

Yvonne

[Iceni]

1. Assume the worst - you will not find work. Would you be able to live on just your pensions if you stayed in England ? If no then do not move, the French govt is less generous to poor immigrants than the British. If yes see answer 2 etc.

2. There are many properties around at the prices you quote - even if you assume an x-rate of 1:1. Limousin is cheaper than the Lot, don't know about Auvergne. Sensible people buy brand new or nearly new (don't do as I do, do as I say) but only you can decide what sort of house you REALLY want and where.

3. In our 5 years here the summers have worsened every year. "Spring" barely exists, the rainy season is longer and longer, just heats up as the months roll along.

4. Over the next 2 years spend as much time looking around in France as you possibly can. If you still want to retire here then rent in your chosen area. Moving back to the pubs, friends and family is much harder after your boat is a smoking ruin.

5. Most of all, don't believe Amanda Lamb et al, it isn't all pastis on the terrace with your neighbours plying you with free garden produce.

6. But we love it here and would not go back though that's easy to say when you cannot afford to.

John - trying to inject a bit of realism or possibly not wanting any more Brits here ?

 

[yvonne]

Huge thanks Iceni - thats exactly what I was looking for - a 'warts and all' view of our plans.

 

In the Uk we would not be able to both retire and live on £18,000  one of us would have to continue to work pretty much full time because we have a fairly large mortgage to pay off - without the mortgage I guess we could live on this amount (with the 'rainy day' pot to fall back on for any unexpected emergencies).

...and it would only be for the first five years after which our annual income would increase quite a bit.

Which region are you ? - I must admit your description of the climate is a bit disappointing - we have two big reasons for going to France - the first is so that we can both finally get off the treadmill of work, get rid of the mortgage and have more time for our hobbies and the second is to have more of an outdoors lifestyle - i.e more SUN !.

....We intend to use these two years wisely and a forum like this is a fantastic way of getting a realistic answer to some of our questions - I'll gladly swap rose tinted glasses for a clear vision of our future plans !

 

 

Yvonne

[Val_2]

If its the sun that is the most important factor in moving then you need to go deep south coastal med probably as everywhere else really is either very wet or very windy. That said, the south can suffer with much colder winters than the north western areas and of course those winds still. Base your living expenses on current UK ones because what you save on one here you pay more for on another especially petrol/diesel as you have to drive twice as far to do your shopping here. Your income is a great deal more than many retired french have to live on as well and you must adept to that to survive. Finding work will be very very difficult especially over 50 with so many younger diplôme people on the dole or in SMIC menial jobs nowadays.

[Albert the InfoGipsy]

Yvonne,

I can't answer for your living budget, but with £200,000 to spend you should be able to find a decent place in much of rural France. Have a look at the Logic Immo site below. You might find the maps of departements and regions useful as well..

In Limousin, for example, there are loads of terrains under £50,000 and you could build a pretty decent house for £150,000. There are lots of houses under your budget, too.

There are areas where property prices are not far from UK levels -- I'm in Vannes, southern Britanny, at present and I know of houses for sale locally in the million pound range. However, this area is exceptional.

http://www.logic-immo.com/

http://www.drimmo.com/carte.php

http://www.gauloise.com/carte-regions-france.html

Finally, you might find this site useful -- climate by departement.

http://www.meteofrance.com/FR/climat/france.jsp

[Nickel]

Don't forget you may have to budget for full private health care insurance unless you can time your end of E106 and start of retirement age cleverly.

[Sprogster]

If weather is an important factor, you might want to think again if France is the most suitable country for you.

We bought on the Med coast in the Var and love it, but have been surprised how cold and long the winters are and for some reason the summers are getting wetter and windier. Last year in particular was very dissapointing and so far this year we have had no prolonged settled good weather. 

Another factor to carefully consider if you are going to be reliant on a £ pension income, is an allowance for exchange rate flunctuations, if the £ resumes its depreciation against the euro.

I read somewhere that last year average UK property prices were 20% higher than France. However, since then the £ has depreciated 20% against the Euro and average UK house prices were down 2% last month alone. Therefore, the perceived attraction of lower average property prices in France, as compared to the UK may no longer be true.

[Iceni]

Y - we live in the N Lot about 10km south of St Cere, close-ish to the borders of Cantal and Correze. We are on an open, windy hill at 464m so our mini climate differs enormously from that of St Cere tending to be cooler if the sun shines,warmer in winter and less smelly nearly all the time.

I have been out this morning and at the moment the sun is shining and the temp must be getting up towards mid-20s. BUT the forecast promises a mix of showers, rain and storms for today and the next 3 days. However when the rain stops and the sun comes out the weather can be stonkingly hot, often 30+ for days on end and then we know why we moved here. At other times ?

FWIW our farmer neighbour, in his 40s, admitted yesterday that he had never seen a season like this for rain but then, over the past few years, nearly every year brings a "never been seen before"

2003 - longest, hottest summer since god was a boy - here with temps of 40+ for seemingly weeks

2004 - seriously strong winds on several occasions

2006 - Jan 27 - 0.5m of snow though it had gone in 2 days

2007/8 winter - no snow that settled for more than 5 mins

If your main criterion is SUN then I recommend La Reunion (and it's French) next to Maurice.

Despite how it may look I am not trying to put you off but if I pretend the place is perfect and then you find out the truth you could find out where I live. But you can only be guided by others, the final decision has to be yours.

John

 

 

[Patf]

Your living budget of £18000 pa is slightly more than ours, and we manage. But the exchange rate is bad for us at the moment. I reckon your income works out at about 1900€ per month. Thats at the exchange rate of £1 to 1.26€ Are things likely to get worse or better? Who knows .

[Iceni]

But, Patf, "manage" is one man's "luxury" and another's "won't pay the barber's bill". And, for many, "manage" implies "getting by but perhaps only just" and this may not be a good basis on which to move country. 

John

 

[Cerise]

What are your hobbies and will you be able to persue them here?  If you live in deepest rural France it may not be easy, so if you decide to go ahead and if that is important to you then do plenty of research into the area.  If you can only 'manage', then hobbies may be too expensive.  Travelling 40 or 50 km to persue your interest is very difficult in these times of high fuel prices especially if you are on a limited income.

I agree with John about 'manage'.  So many people seem to say that they just 'get by'.  Fine, if that is OK for them but I personally want a bit more out of life than 'get by'.  Clothes, books, holidays spring to mind.  Yes people will tell you that their French neighbours live without those things, but they have never perhaps had those luxuries so don't miss them.  I do and  I don't enjoy scrimping and saving.

If you have the possibility of working part time in UK why not do that for a while and come to France for maybe a month at a time (you can rent holiday homes quite cheaply out of season) to see if the area provides the things you will need to make your life happier.  Could you also perhaps downsize in UK to get rid of the mortgage?

 

 

[JMB]

I agree entirely with the comments posted here.  You may also find it illuminating to read some of the comments  from people on www.dontmovetofrance.co.uk

[yvonne]

Wow - interesting site ! - and some food for thought

 

I do understand the point about 'getting by' on a reduced income but that would surely be the same if we were retired in the UK ...our hobbies are breeding and showing our Belgian Shepherd Dogs and raising rare breed poultry as well as growing our own fruit and veg and painting and writing. ....when we have time !!!!.We could downsize over here but £20000 here in the Uk would only buy a bungalow or semi with an average sized garden - neither of which would suit our needs.

We are not under any illusion that France is 'better' than the UK in any intrinsic way - simply that we are hoping to be able to live the life we want .....without having to work full time to achieve this !.

Good advice to rent somewhere befoie we buy but.... we have 6 large hairy dogs ....how feasible would renting be LOL ! ...

 

 

Yvonne

[LisaJ]

You can get work (though it is not easy to find) teaching English as an "intervenant" in primary schools (strictly speaking you don't have to have been a qualified teacher in England, though I think most of us are). You do need reasonably good French as some of the children are as young as seven and you can't always stick to the target language. This pays about 10€ an hour after deductions and normally you have to fund the cost of travel. I also spend a fortune on printing and laminating etc as in my experience there are very few resources in school. Teaching adults is a bit better paid, but all the work is patchy and contracts are short. I think it is a good way of becoming a part of the community, but not really anything you could rely on to make a living.

regards

Lisa

[bixy]

I've just been reading the dontmovetofrance site for the first time. Clearly much of it written by someone who has been existing on a diet of lemons for some time. The important thing about moving to France is to be realistic. In my view France is not all that different from the UK. There are friendly helpful people and there are miserable xenophobic swine but the majority are just like you and I - ordinary people just getting on with their lives and only very marginally interested in the expats who have moved into the village. Your original question was about your budget. Our income is almost exactly the same as your projected income and we manage fine, though we have to dip into our savings to get major works done. I once read the following advice so far as budgeting is cocerned: work out your budget, then halve your income and double your expenditure and you will have it about right. There is always something cropping up that you hadn't budgeted for.

As for work, your French will be a great advantage for English teaching. If you are prepared to scratch around you will probably find work. I have been twice approached to give English lessons despite not particularly wanting to work. I know English people, with good French, who do very well teaching English part-time.

There is one thing about living in France that is very different from living in the UK and that is the oft quoted quality of life. Living in the country, which you intend to do, the pace of life is much slower, it's quiet and peaceful, the roads are empty, people are courteous and polite and children are a lot better behaved. I wouldn't go back to the UK for a big clock [as we say].

I wish you good luck.

Patrick

[Cerise]

You certainly can rent with dogs.  Showing here is no where near the same as UK.  Expensive, no open shows, long long travelling involved and much less competition.  Average Ch show entries about 2000 all breeds instead of the 12000ish we are used to.  The French don't have culture of large dogs as pets so breeding can be problematic in terms of finding decent homes for puppies.  I have given up showing and breeding here but still maintain interest by acting as ring secretary for localish (up to 4 hours drive away!) shows.  You cannot become a confirmation judge unless you are a French national.  Judges are paid and are rarely breeders of the breed in question.  As I say very, very different.  If you want a really good show scene would suggest you look in the north of France as you can easily get to Belgium, Holland and Germany all of whom have excellent shows with good competition.

Rather than bore the rest of the forum to death with details of showing, if you want to know more about this aspect please pm me.  If you wish to breed more than the very occasional litter and you have more than 4 dogs you need to have a Certifcate de Capacité from your local veterinary department.

[Kingdingaling]

18k a year to me sounds good, I don't have any deffinate income and I get by but I suspect your home here will be your only home

you have to adjust when moving to France especially financially, everyone will adjust so it doesn't cost as much to live here so 18K will be plenty I reckon

[Moorejw]

I think with your hobbies and interests you will be very happy here. Rural France suits self-contained, country-minded people very well - its perfect for those wishing to live the good life, as land is more easily available and not too expensive. Everyone expects you to grow your own and keep a few hens, my neighbours wondered why we hadn't acquired a rooster, when we were worried about annoying them with the noise!! We now keep hens, ducks, geese, quail and either piglets or lambs for the freezer, something we could not do in the UK for a number of reasons. I would say 'go for it' with your eyes wide open and having plenty of time for research you should find what you are looking for.

On the climate front, why not look at Poitou-Charentes? We have defined seasons, and usually long hot summers (not too hot apart from 2003) and short sharp winters. We have had a lot of rain this year, but so has everywhere in europe (apart from Barcelona).

Good luck!

[yvonne]

Morning everyone !

 

...and thanks again for all your thoughts on our plans - Cerise as far as the showing/breeding side goes we are members of the Club Francais de Chien de Bergere Belge (www.cfcbb.free.fr) and they have several shows and events held throughout France including two Championnats at Toulouse - they also hold a recommended breeders list where club members can sell thier pups ( not that we breed very often !). We have many friends in the breed in France and we have already shown and judged over there so are hopeful that we will be able to remain active  with the 'doggy'  side of our hobbies !.

 

I did have an idea about setting up a general dog club for the area where we could hold some fun shows and do a bit of agility/obedience training - do you think this would take off ? ....it might be a way of raising some money so that we could hire a coach and driver to take groups of show folk to some shows that are further afield. Just an idea !!!.

 

take care

yvonne

[yvonne]

oops that link isn't working try this http://cfcbb.free.fr/

 

cheers

 

Yvonne

[Cerise]

I'd like to think so - but you have to set up an association and have qualifications, and and .... .  The equivalent of exemption shows (or whatever they have renamed them) doesn't exist.  I would like to be able to do something like that.  My nearest dog training club is 45 km away.  Nearer a big town it would probably take off.  Not trying to put you off - just that the distances are the killers.  Ringcraft doesn't exist either and I've always thought I'd like to do that here, but the problem is numbers as people would have to travel so far.

[dr orloff]

I sent you an email with some advice on our area of the Limousin, if you're interested. 

[Morbihan Properties]

Your budget sounds lovely.... roll on my retirement

Why not check out the Morbihan region (coughs [;-)] )

[mint]

Can't argue with you although I see you have a vested interest!

Didn't buy there because I didn't want to be in another Celtic Fringe, having come from Wales.

I particularly loved the Quiberon peninsula.

[freddy]

It seems to me that one of the key differences between the Brits and and the French living on a fixed income is the need to travel back to the UK and how frequently - If you have family in the UK that may need lengthy visits this can eat through a surprising amount of cash. Driving back for a visit with associated costs can easily eat through a thousand pounds and flying back if you need to hire a car can be similar. If you need to do that a couple of times a year that's a big percentage of your after tax income.

Similarly you may find that you have a high level of visitors soming to see you. This can be expensive if you are not careful - you will need to be assertive about guests at least covering their own costs.

If you avoid these pitfalls and have reasonable expectations - don't expect new cars or multiple holidays then you should be fine.

In your position you will need to consider healthcare but this is managable - make sure you are covered for the first couple of years by the E106 and you are further covered as soon as one of you is 65. so you only have to worry about the 3 years in between. You can either look at insurance or work/set up a business over this period and as you have other income you can afford to be more flexible in the amount you earn so shouldn't be to big a problem.

Final tip don't underestimate the moving/initial setup costs - figure out what you think you will need then double it. All sorts of things crop up.