Water course diverted ... what is the law?

[nectarine]

We have a small lake which is fed from a stream coming down the hill, and which in turns goes out of our lake and feeds others further down the hill.  In the last year the lake hasn't been as full and seems to have a film on it.  I've now been told that a farmer further up the hill has 'diverted' the stream on to his land, however, I would have to walk upstream through farmland to find out if this is true but it would answer quite a few questions.

Before I do this, though, does anyone know the law on this?  I'm reluctant to go to the mayor in the first instance, as this is a small farming community and, as incomers, we might be seen as troublemakers.  However, if the law is definitely on our side that the old watercourse has to be reinstated to feed the lakes and ponds en route, then we would pursue this with the mayor.

Any advice gratefully received. 

 

[Hoddy]

When we bought our land the notaire told us that we had an 'absolute right' to the water which flows through it. Have you talked to your neighbours downstream of you ? They may think that you are the one who's responsible for their lack of water.

Hoddy

[nectarine]

that's a good point, thank you.  I will talk to the downstream neighbours, I hadn't though that they might think we are the culprits!!!  There's nothing that I see in our Acte de Vente, nor did our notaire mention an absolute right to the water - I guess it hadn't occurred to any of us that this might happen.  But is it a matter for the mayor to take up, do you think?  We have teo be a bit careful, this is a farming community and, if the water has indeed been diverted, then it will be for agricultural purposes whereas our lake is purely a fishing/recreational pleasure spot for us!

Also, in order to go and find out if the watercourse has been diverted, I need to walk upstream through some farmers' fields.  I don't know who they are so cannot ask permission, although the area is fairly wild and deserted so I doubt anyone would notice or challenge us.  But is there a law of trespass that we might be breaking?

[Jotty]

I don't think that there is a law of trespass in France

[Frederick]

I dont know the name of it but I believe there  is in France an authority that concerns itself with streams lakes water courses etc ...I know my cousin has a visit from them occasionally to check the  stream and the sluices feeling their lakes and they are in trouble if the sluice gates  fail to work.its all to do with prevention of flooding down stream I think ....so when it comes to shifting stream flows etc I dont think you can just do what you like .I think I might find out who they are and talk to them .  I imagine sombody will know and put the details on here !

[woolybanana]

If you ask the farmers on the river/stream route, they will happily tell you where the water comes from and where is is being stolen.

[giantpanda]

trespassing

Basically any trespassing can be considerd as " violation de la propriété privé."

But in practice:

Effectivement s'il n'y a pas eu vol ni degradation une plainte pour

violation de propriété privée ne sera pas recevable. Déposez tout de

même une main courante.

No damage, no case.

Yours,

giantpanda

[giantpanda]

Hi!

En cas de dérivation, le débit restant doit être suffisant pour assurer la conservation et la diversité du milieu aquatique.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droit_et_gestion_des_cours_d%27eau_en_France#Le_droit_de_l.27eau

Suggest you talk to the DDE ( Direction Départementale de l'Equipement ).

Yours,

giantpanda

[sid]

We have a stream on one of our boundaries. At the time of purchase the notaire told us we had absolutely no right to use the water, just as we apparently have no right to use water from our well to water the garden.

In the OP's situation I would approach the mayor, not to complain, but to ask for his advice on what's happening to the lake and stream, and then let events take their own course. 

Sid

[Ron Avery]

[quote user="nectarine"]

We have a small lake which is fed from a stream coming down the hill, and which in turns goes out of our lake and feeds others further down the hill.  In the last year the lake hasn't been as full and seems to have a film on it.  I've now been told that a farmer further up the hill has 'diverted' the stream on to his land, however, I would have to walk upstream through farmland to find out if this is true but it would answer quite a few questions.

Before I do this, though, does anyone know the law on this?  I'm reluctant to go to the mayor in the first instance, as this is a small farming community and, as incomers, we might be seen as troublemakers.  However, if the law is definitely on our side that the old watercourse has to be reinstated to feed the lakes and ponds en route, then we would pursue this with the mayor.

Any advice gratefully received. 

[/quote] 

Why not just ask your upsteam  neighbours before starting any trouble with the Mairie as there will probably be a simple explanation for the low water level for example , how much rain have you had lately?

 In the south west there has been precious litlle rainfall for some weeks now and farmers are concerned about the lack of rainfall and many rivers and streams are very low, it could just be that the water level is too low for the water to get over a weir up stream rather than a diversion.  AFAIK, farmers cannot just take water out of a watercourse without a permit, but it could be the dry conditions that have allowed this to happen if that is the case, but I would just ask your neighbours up stream first, they all have accessible houses I assume. 

[freddy]

We have a small stream on the borders of our land and the deeds (as explained by the notaire) clearly state that we can take water from it but we may not cut it i.e. prevent it from flowing on further downhill.

On the basis of this and the above answers it sounds as though the rather unhelpful answer to the original question is 'it depends' - you are going to require some fairly expert opinions to know what the case is in this specific insatnce.

A friendly chat saying that the lake needs the waterflow with whoever diverted it could be more productive in the first instance.

[Panda]

To add to this, my lake often has a film on it at this time of year.  If the lake was receiving no water at all surely you would have seen a large drop in the water level during the summer months, how much has it gone down by?  This time of year is generally the low point for any lake, after the summer and before the very rainiest weather so perhaps it is just your perception.

Having a chat with your neighbours does seem the way to go though.

[nectarine]

Thank you all for your very helpful answers and advice.  I think we shall take a walk up the watercourse to see if there is any natural obstruction, like a fallen tree, ... like I said, someone told me that the farmer up the hill had obstructed it but I don't know if that's true so I'd rather see for myself rather than storm in!!  If it turns out that he has diverted it then I'll speak with the downstream farmers next and see what their advice is, as they will also be suffering from the reduced water.  It may be that an approach from all of us, rather than just the British incomers, would be more persuasive. I'll post the results here.  Meanwhile thanks again for all your very helpful advice.

[Clair]

Remember to take a camera... Always handy to snap the views, natural or otherwise... [Www]