Tax Relief for dependent in UK

[Roz]

I wonder if any one can comment on our situation with regard to obtaining tax relief. We are fiscally resident in France. Our only income is from my husband's private pension and the interest on our savings. Our son lives in the UK, he is a musician and earns very little. He is living in a property which we own, and we pay all of the utility bills, ie. gas heating, electricity, water, telephone rental, tv licence. Is there any way in which we can claim tax relief against these expenses?

[Bob T]

Why should you? If you choose to spend your money in that way then why should France help you out?

[Roz]

I don't know why you've taken that sniffy tone, Bob T.  I've read somewhere on this site that someone was claiming for their grown up children who lived in the UK as dependents on their tax forms. We declare every bit of our income, and I think I have a right to make enquiries as to whether we can offset any of our outgoings against the tax we pay.

[Clair]

I doubt very much that you can claim tax relief on maintaining a home in the UK whilst you live in France [8-)]

[Roz]

We are not maintaining a home for our use, we've never been back. As soon as our son can support himself financially we want to be rid of the house and its on-going drain on our finances. I guess my question is: "When is a dependent not a dependent".  For tax purposes only, of course..

[Ron Avery]

You have not read on here that you can legally claim for a grown up dependent, living in the UK, somebody heard a yarn at a bar about this and posted it on the basis that they would never know  how many kids you had or their ages.  Its all a load of wally and unless your son is under 21 and living with you in France he is not a dependent and you cannot legally claim any tax relief for him. 

[Roz]

Thank you, that appears to have answered my question. Don't think I'll be asking any more here in the Merry Merry Month of May.

[Patf]

Roz and Ron - the person who said she was allowed to claim an allowance in France for adult children is single ie divorced. This was discussed on another forum and someone came up with the reference in the french tax law. Something about they add on extra "parts". Seems incredible but true. Only applies to singles.

[Kitty]

[quote user="Bob T"]Why should you? If you choose to spend your money in that way then why should France help you out?
[/quote]

This is another example of a new person coming onto the Forum and being shot to pieces with a discourteous reply.  It just isn't cricket.

Welcome to the Forum, Roz.  Please don't be put off.  For every boorish person here, there's many more agreeable people.

[Roz]

Thank you for the welcome Cathy.

 No Bob, we haven't come here to try and get something for nothing, only what we are legally entitled to. It does seem a little ironic that if our son lived here under our roof,  it would cost us far far less to 'keep him' -  yet we could claim tax relief.   Our other option was to throw him out on the street and rent the house to someone unrelated to us. That way, he could have got a place off the council and have most of his bills paid by the taxpayer! Hey ho!

[Albert the InfoGipsy]

Roz,

I'm not being nasty or trying to score points, but I know of no way that providing a free house for an adult offspring qualifies you for tax rebates or grants of any kind from HM government.

If you were still in the UK under what rules would you expect to claim allowances, benefits or whatever for maintaining your son's home? I really want to know, because I've got 2 sons who could do with help on their housing costs.

 

[Belle]

Sorry you have had such a discourtious answer to your question Roz, I think the rules of this forum should be changed, i.e, if you can't give a polite, civil answer, then stay away.

[Clair]

[quote user="Albert the InfoGipsy"]Roz,

I'm not being nasty or trying to score points, but I know of no way that providing a free house for an adult offspring qualifies you for tax rebates or grants of any kind from HM government.

If you were still in the UK under what rules would you expect to claim allowances, benefits or whatever for maintaining your son's home? I really want to know, because I've got 2 sons who could do with help on their housing costs.[/quote]

I assume the tax relief mentioned by Patf comes from France (there is a mention of "part").

I would be very interested in reading the official reference.

Patf, can you possibly post a link to it please?

[cooperlola]

I'm sure that the others are correct about the tax situation in France, but why cannot your son claim some benefits in the UK?  If you were to formalise a rental agreement with him (even if you were the ones to pay it) then he could show what the real expenses related to his living costs were, and may get some housing benefit etc in his own right.  It seems to me that he should help you a bit with this, even if it's just by sorting out what he is entitled to and claiming it.  You sound like you're being quite soft with his living arrangements to me - I bet a lot of kids would be delighted to have such generous parents![:)]

[Roz]

Hi Albert,
Our son lived with us, and would have continued to do so had we not moved to France. Without going into too much boring detail, to make our move possible, we down-sized considerably, by buying my Dad's smaller house - he was coming to France with us. We did this so that for the first couple of years he would have his home to return to if he didn't settle. Our son moved in with us. While we were here with Dad's first van load of belongings, he passed away (he wasn't ill, he was as fit as a fiddle). Our son stayed on in the house.

I  agree that if he had moved into his own place and we had continued to support him financially, there would be no tax relief available. I still don't see the difference - it's still money spent to provide for a dependent, wherever they live. But then again, I suppose you could argue that you don't get tax relief on your own bills, never mind someone else's!

If you are a single parent there may be some options available. Good luck!

Hi Cooperlola,

We did make enquiries with the local council, we are not allowed to rent our house to our own son.He qualifies for quite a reduction in council tax though, which is a big help. He is registered with Jobseekers, there used to be something specifically for musicians but I believe that is going to change - probably far too many youngsters cottoned onto it!  He manages to pay his own phone bill, the rental on the rehearsal studio, and the cost of running the van that they use to carry the band equipment around, clothes etc, and that's it. They often do gigs for nothing, just free drinks! Yes we are soft, but he has a dream and we wanted to help him realise it. He's assured us that when they hit the big time, we'll be reimbursed...  [:D]

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Roz"]

He's assured us that when they hit the big time, we'll be reimbursed...  [:D]

[/quote][:D] You'll just have to hope that's sooner, rather than later, then.

[Ron Avery]

Roz you didn't say how old your son is, 18 or 30?  So who is to know whether he can or cannot claim anything or even if is a dependent  If he is not working in the UK or on low income he is entitled to claim for things for himself and in that case is no longer dependent on you.

Ok Bob may have overeacted and could have chosen his words better but its an understandable reaction from one of a generation that had to stand on its own two feet and did not look to the state at every opportunity for handouts.  The impression from your original post could be taken that your son has chosen to stay in the UK to pursue a chosen career, you have chosen to let him live in a property that could be rented out to get more income if you needed it but would of course be taxable and now owning two homes,  you want tax relief in France from a country that has no relationship with your son.

 Legally AFAIK  you are entitled to no tax relief if lives in the UK and is over 21, but you could check with your tax office. If he lived in France with you the situation changes as there are special arrangements for musicians who are not in regular work.

Edit

Took a long time posting I was lookingh up some stuff, and I did not see the three above posts so excuse repeat comments about claiming benefits etc

Post edited by the moderators.

[Boiling a frog]

[quote user="Clair"]

I assume the tax relief mentioned by Patf comes from France (there is a mention of "part").

I would be very interested in reading the official reference.
Patf, can you possibly post a link to it please?

[/quote]

 

Page 2 of 2042K

Situation des enfants en cas de celibat, divorce,separation, veuvage.

1. Vous vivez seul et vous avez eu un enfant decide apres láge de 16 ans ou par suite de faits de guerre complete box H

2. Vous vivez seaul et vos enfants (majeurs ou maries,mineurs imposes en leur nom propre) ne sont pas comtes a votre charge ou nónt pas demande leur rattachement a votre foyer complete box H

Box H    Anne de naissance de votre enfent dernier ne ouvrant droit a une demi part supplementaire

[Patf]

Glad you found that, B a F. I did search on TF but couldn't find it.

[Roz]

It seems that you can't ask an honest question here in relation to tax savings (which self-employed people sometimes take to extremes, begging restaurant/petrol receipts etc, for 'expenses' - which I have experienced personally) without some people treating you as if you'd asked the easiest way to swindle the French government! We have both worked hard our entire lives and have never asked for so much as a penny from anyone, anywhere. Yes, we've opted for early(-ish) retirement and are needing to watch our outgoings. But we are more than happy to pay our taxes. Coming from the PAYE system to self-assessment is a whole new world for us. Forgive me for enquiring whether there were any legitimate tax reductions that we were unaware of. There is defiinitely a chill wind that blows through here about this time of year! Relax guys! [kiss]

 

 

[Ron Avery]

Self employed people's expenses are subject to more scrutiny than early retired couples in France, begging receipts is more for getting money from petty cash than a tax return of a self employed person, but we digress.

It helps when asking questions relating to tax to give as much detail as is necessary to enable an informed answer, yet not once have you mentioned the age of your dependent son.

If you had mentioned that in the OP you would have got a quicker and more concise answer ....... although if you had said he was over 21 you may have also got some pointed comments but that is what Forums are like, you don't necessarily get the answer  you want.

I'm sure if somebody had said of course you can claim for the expense of a second home in the UK and keeping an unemployed 28 year old you would have been very pleased with the response.

Oh, and I'm sure you would wish to thank those who took the trouble to post informative replies to you.[:P]

[Clair]

Thank BaF.

This is what I have found about it so far:

[quote]In principle, a child aged 18 on 1st Jan 2007 has his own tax household et can declare his income separately.

In some cases, the child can request to be attached to his parents' tax household.

If the child is single, separated, divorced or a widower with no dependent children, the parents claim an extra ½ part.

• Your child request to be attached to your tax household:

Whether he lives under your roof or not, a child over the age of 18 can request to be attached to your tax household

• if he was under 21 on 1st Jan 2007
• or if he was under 25 on 1st Jan 2007 and a student.

You can declare his income with yours.

A child over the age of 18 is considered a student if he is following a course of general, technical or professional studies, and meet the agreed criteria concerning attendance, exams and discipline required to obtain official diplomas (DA 5-B3121, n°41).

• Your child does not request to be attached to your tax household:

He has his own tax household and declares his income in his own name.

• Your child lives abroad:

He can request to be attached to your tax household provided his situation meets the necessary criteria

• he was under 21 on 1st Jan 2007
• or he was under 25 on 1st Jan 2007 and a student

• and there is a  tax agreement between France and his country of residence

• Your child is registered unemployed:

If he is no longer a student, he can only be attached to your tax household if he is under the age of 21.

Beyond that age, you can only deduct the alimony you pay him.

[/quote]

[Ron Avery]

[quote user="Belle"]Sorry you have had such a discourtious answer to your question Roz, I think the rules of this forum should be changed, i.e, if you can't give a polite, civil answer, then stay away.[/quote]

 

or "  no matter what we all think of each others posts, we keep it to ourselves"  Who said that I wonder ?????[:D][:P][Www]

[cooperlola]

Life would be pretty dull if we never bickered and if some of us (I include myself) weren't a little self-opinionated at times.  I love a good whinge, personally.  But it must be a little off-putting for a new poster who hasn't yet identified our resident Mr and Mrs Grumpies! 

I'm all for claiming what's due to me and can't blame the o/p for asking, even though I reckon she's probably p*ss*ng in the wind here.

Good luck, Roz, with your life in France - tax breaks or not - and welcome to the forum. 

[Russethouse]

 I can't help it, I'm sorry Roz but when I think of my sons  mates who have a group and who are good enough to get paid gigs, go to bed in the small hours and then  get up for work, and my god daughter who has a job and lives separately from her partner in the week so she can continue with her drama studies, all at her own expense I think your son is very, very lucky.

I hope he really appreciates you.