Bank suddenly asking me to confirm ID, address and means - is this normal?

[Daft Doctor]

Hi, even before our recent move to France we had a joint French bank account with AxaBanque for 5 years, set up as we had a leaseback rental property.  The account has been perfectly run, and since we moved over in April have upgraded the account and of course it is now seeing much more traffic, including the transfer in and out of the deposit for a land purchase.

Out of the blue my wife and I have both received an email and pdf of a form to fill in and return to Axa.  I know the source is genuine as the forms are prefilled with my Axa user ID and the emails genuinely originated from the usual Axa source which sends out statement notifications and other marketing junk.  The form asks us to forward a photocopy of passport, proof of address and the last years tax declaration (not sure if UK or French is what they are after - the UK one is the one with all our income on it).  It also asks for details about our assets, the quantity, type etc.  I must admit that I was flabbergasted and also a little wary, especially as we have had the account for all this time and never been questioned like this before.

Is this a common thing for French banks to do periodically and do we have to play ball by providing all this info?  Proof of address is a real problem for my wife, as no utilities are in her name in France.  Do they accept one proof of address for a married couple?  To be honest, after spending the last four months slowly ticking the numerous administrative boxes necessary to settle in France I am really cheesed off that now our bank are also at it!  Has anyone had previous recent experience of this kind of thing and are we obliged to comply?  Obviously if they will close the account if we don't, then that is one thing, but if they would just be a bit miffed that's another!

[woolybanana]

If my bank asked these questions, I would raise the roof.

Are you sure the request is genuine? If it is by email then I would ask the bank to make a formal request in writing. Actually, DD, it stinks of a con trick to me.

 

[NormanH]

I do get asked for ID and a copy if my French Avis d'Imposition every year and even, and illogically proof of address (the one the letter has been sent to...[8-)])

You can provide proof of address for another person by a hand-written  certificat d'hebergement although you may feel that as she is your wife there should be no need. This is France however [:D]

Some of the accounts I hold with the bank can only be held by someone with a low income for example, so they need to know that I am in the right category.

Part of this is European and anti-money laundering.

The bit about assets I have never been asked, since they can see from my account I am very unlikely to have any.

On the other hand as bank 'conseilleurs' are now mainly salesmen the probability is that they want to this to try to sell you some financial product or other. I have this every year.

In short, yes it happens, and frequently.

I just give them what they want, but always in person at the bank to be sure it is genuine.

You ain't seen nuffink  yet, if you find this bothersome.

Try getting a tiny French pension or a carte de séjour as we used to have to have [:-))]

[idun]

 

I could understand that they may need some proof of residence, if they are changing your account from a non residents account to a residents account. However, I would never give them all those details that they asked for.

[Loiseau]

I've been asked for some of this sort of thing (passport, utilities bills) by my UK bank from time to time, usually when setting up some new kind of account.   As said above, it's all part of the anti-money-laundering culture.

And when seeking legal advice in the UK on inheritance matters, I have had to fill in some giant form that asked about assets etc as well - which is understandable if they are to advise on the best scenario for a client.

However, these requests have always been by post, not by email.

So the request probably is genuine, but I would play safe by physically taking the stuff to your bank, and waiting while they tick it off and return the corroborative evidence to you.  If this is not possible, I would at least ring them to reassure yourself that it's genuine, and then send the form and proof by post (maybe with accusé de réception) rather than by email.

Angela

[NormanH]

" I would play safe by physically taking the stuff to your bank, and

waiting while they tick it off and return the corroborative evidence to

you."

I totally agree. They will simply take photo copies and hand the originals back.

[AnOther]

Sounds to me like a con to try and sell you something.

Personally I'd want to see the manager to ask him where it was written that I was obliged to provide all the information demanded. Also putting together an anything like accurate list of all ones assets could take weeks and would be out of date even before you'd finished !

I've had my CA A/C for over 5 years and never yet been asked for a thing.

[Daft Doctor]

Thanks for all the replies.  It is complicated by the fact that Axabanque is based in a suburb of Paris and I live in Haute Savoie, 600+km away.  They use local agents, but no branches.  The account was set up in 2006 from the UK when I was buying my apartment, but I've no wish to change as by and large it is reasonably cheap to run by French standards.  It certainly isn't a special account or has it preferential rates in any way.  Any documents would have to be sent to them by post, but I do feel that the address thing is ridiculous as is the need to document every penny (or euro) I own.  Surely it must be to try to sell me an account or an investment I don't want.  I rang the bank when I moved to France and they identified me through asking the usual security questions.  I changed the address there and then, no problem so if my change to becoming resident in France was an issue why didn't anyone raise it there and then.  I can also do it online, they SMS a code to me mobile to key in as a security measure but that's it otherwise.  I suppose I will cobble together what I have but I have no proof of Mrs DD's address so god know's what'll happen then.  

[NormanH]

You can provide proof of address for another person by a hand-written  certificat d'hebergement although you may feel that as she is your wife there should be no need. This is France however

[Hereford]

We have had the same email from Axa.  We have an account with them solely to pay premiums for health insurance (they offered money to start the account and give "commission" back on the health premiums).

We are certainly going to go to our local agent to check that this email is genuine and ask why we have to produce this information. Our main current account is elsewhere and there we do have to take tax summary in once a year for their records but have never been asked for anything further.

If Axa insist on a list of our assets for no good reason that we can see we will threaten to close the account. We are considering changing mutuelle anyway!

H.

Edit from Mrs H

I have used my car insurance renewal document as a proof of address.  

[suein56]

[quote user="Daft Doctor"] It is complicated by the fact that Axabanque is based in a suburb of Paris and I live in Haute Savoie, 600+km away.  They use local agents, but no branches.  [/quote]

Then you could email Axabank Bank to say that you are prepared to take the copies to the local agency and see what they say.

[quote user="Daft Doctor"]

I have no proof of Mrs DD's address so god know's what'll happen then.[/quote]

Just tell them that she lives with you.

We have had to fill in somewhat similar forms, especially regarding current identity ie passport details once or twice since we arrived in 2005. The depth of enquiry and detail required seems to vary with the Bank.

Sue

[NormanH]

It is intrusive but I don't think sinister.

My Bank CA have a wide range of savings accounts some of which are available only if you don't pay tax, or you haven't already got a Livret A

http://www.ca-languedoc.fr/particuliers/souscrire-epargne.html

The question of assets is to see if they can sell you one of these and improve the tax efficiency of your savings profile.

They do need to know if you qualify for some of the types of account or not as they don't have the right to sell you some of them if you don't qualify.

The other questions of ID or domicile are standard anti money laundering, and I have to answer them every year.

I have a joint account with my son who doesn't actually live in France, so for him I just get round the question (with the complicity of my conseilleur) with the certificat d'herbegement I have already mentioned.

[parsnips]

Hi,

   In my experience Credit Agricole use their obligation to be satisfied with their clients' investment knowledge and risk profile, to ask questions about all aspects of the clients finances (for their marketing purposes no doubt)  . You should refuse to give details to your bank about any products you hold with other companies.

[woolybanana]

So, DD, it seems you have to separate out what is a legal requirement, ie anti-money laundering and what is simple fishing for business ie asking for information about your global assets, which may not be that easy. My guess is that the bank will try and fudge the boundary to get what they want, or just lie, but then I have a deep seated hatred of banks and all their works (and even more so of Axa).

CA have a delightful rip off called Britline, I think, who once told me they wanted details of all my financial affairs if I were to make use of their services and seemed most offended to be told that was none of their business.

[Pierre ZFP]

Whilst proof of identity may a be legitimate request and I would provide it (in a form other than a Phishing Kit) I would not be entirely 'complete' with my assets preferring something like

I've got sixpence

Jolly, jolly sixpence

I've got sixpence to last me all the day ...........

[6]

[andyh4]

[quote user="Daft Doctor"]

Thanks for all the replies.  It is complicated by the fact that Axabanque is based in a suburb of Paris and I live in Haute Savoie, 600+km away.  They use local agents, but no branches.  The account was set up in 2006 from the UK when I was buying my apartment, but I've no wish to change as by and large it is reasonably cheap to run by French standards.  It certainly isn't a special account or has it preferential rates in any way.  Any documents would have to be sent to them by post, but I do feel that the address thing is ridiculous as is the need to document every penny (or euro) I own.  Surely it must be to try to sell me an account or an investment I don't want.  I rang the bank when I moved to France and they identified me through asking the usual security questions.  I changed the address there and then, no problem so if my change to becoming resident in France was an issue why didn't anyone raise it there and then.  I can also do it online, they SMS a code to me mobile to key in as a security measure but that's it otherwise.  I suppose I will cobble together what I have but I have no proof of Mrs DD's address so god know's what'll happen then.  

[/quote]

 

And that DD is the problem.  The bank have no paper trail to prove to an auditor that you are still the person who openned the original account from the UK.  They have no independent record of your address.  hey have in fact, at best, a recorded telephone call - and probably not that.

Hence the fact that they want everything except your 100m swimming certificate.  Will they also use it for marketing purposes?  Well you would in their position wouldn't you?

[Chancer]

All that they can legitamately demand is proof of address, copy of passport and copy of last tax return.

I had a running battle for several years with Credit Lyonnaise over this, like you I refused categorically to send thes by post and they really could not see what the risk was, says it all about French banks!!

I used to go into the bank every year, give them one of their own statements that they had sent me as proof of address, they really got pee'd off at that one!!! I would show them that I still had the same passport that they had already photocopied, that it was still valid as they could tell from their copy and refuse to let them photocopy it again as I consider that they already wasted too much paper.

The year that I got fed up with the whole wasted experience they closed my account and reported to the Banque de France  as interdit bancaire.

Its always fun telling anyone who is not used to anyone questioning their (lack of) authority that cela ne vous concerne pas!

[Hereford]

Just printed off the email and attachment we received.   It will be difficult to comply anyway with their identity request as it asks for (copy of) identity card or passport showing photo, signature and address.   Also they want a utility bill dated within the last three months - which I am pretty sure we do not have! Possibly I can find a telephone bill online, but if I print it one could hardly call it proof of anything.

We shall take what proof of identity and address we can find to the local agent and ask the purpose of the other questions (we know what they want it for of course), and say that we have not asked for nor do we want or need their advice, and we have none of their "products".   If they persist we will close the account.

Mrs H

[NormanH]

[quote user="Hereford"]Just printed off the email and attachment we received.   It will be difficult to comply anyway with their identity request as it asks for (copy of) identity card or passport showing photo, signature and address.   Also they want a utility bill dated within the last three months - which I am pretty sure we do not have! Possibly I can find a telephone bill online, but if I print it one could hardly call it proof of anything.

We shall take what proof of identity and address we can find to the local agent and ask the purpose of the other questions (we know what they want it for of course), and say that we have not asked for nor do we want or need their advice, and we have none of their "products".   If they persist we will close the account.

Mrs H

[/quote]

French ID cards (and my carte de séjour) have an address, so this is a simple automatic demand. They would not expect you not to have ID which shows it. It is another reason why it is useful to have French paperwork if you live here.

The utility bill thing has become ridiculous since many people pay by instalments and only get one bill a year

[Hereford]

The AXA home page for logging on to your account says that they have emailed all customers, so at least the email is real!

H.

[Daft Doctor]

Hi, sincere thanks again to all for the advice.  I decided just to bite the bullet and comply.  As Norman has said in previous threads, there's no point in kicking against it, just accept it.  There's so many great things about living in Haute Savoie, an irritation or two administratively is well worth it.  Used the 'certificat d'hébergement' link to generate the template to deal with Mrs DD's proof of address (thanks again Norman - the practicality of the links you suggest are always spot on).  Did tell them what we had roughly swishing around at the mo but qualified it by telling them it was ALL earmarked for a chalet purchase.  Any marketing calls will get short shrift! 

[Jako]

I just read the same subject on a Dutch forum (for Dutch in France) and they tell tell Axa to stuff it. Axa say it is because of EU legislation and it is not, it is just Axa trying to complete their customer profile for their own commercial purposes. The questions go way beyond legislative purposes.

Should they object:  let them know you are now considering changing to another bank, with a smile.[:)]

[andyh4]

I am sure there is more than a little truth in that, but the EU legislation says what has to be done and not how.  As a result different countries have adopted different strategies.

French banks sem to solve the porblem by asking for evidence of just about everything in your life.

English banks take the easy opt out of refusing to open accounts for people they do not know = those with a foreign account.

 

Neither is a good solution.

[idun]

I doubt that EU legislation was even taken into account when we transfered our UK house sale funds to our french account. We transferred from the old Midland to our french bank, which was part of the Barclays France group at the time. It was however sent via another french bank who acted as intermediary, maybe the Credit Lyonnaise foreign department who then held onto it. They wanted to know where it was from, how we had obtained it. I could have understood if our own french bank had asked these questions, but not the intermediary. Took a while to get it, but we did in the end.

Needless to say I was very angry about it, especially as we had been into our french bank and told them that the money would be arriving and where it was from and what it would be for....... another house, as it happened.

 

So nothing new. I still would not tell my french bank every last thing they asked.

[NormanH]

This is vaguely the sort of thing I was talking about: the banks will have to check with the tax authorities if someone wanting to open a Livret A already has one elsewhere

http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-eco/2012/07/11/97002-20120711FILWWW00298-la-detention-du-livret-a-mieux-encadree.php