PAYE in France

[Gardian]

It doesn't really exist, does it?

Well sort-of.  I know that individuals can opt to make 'stage payments' through the tax year, but there isn't a PAYE system that exists in the UK is there?

I think that I remember some discussion on here years ago about how the Impots would love to move in that direction and a suggestion that there might be some kind of incentive to the French nation to go along with it.

When you think about what happens now, its mad. Payment of personal tax in November 2012 for earnings in 2011. If the Impots were to move to something like the British system, there would be a once-off windfall of (say) 30bnE (a very, very rough calc of 30m taxpayers x 1k each).  It'd be worth giving everybody a few Euros back by way of a discount to sweeten the pill !

Why don't they do it ................. other than the fact that this is France.[:)]

[Clair]

I think the main problem is that income tax in France is based on a household income, rather than on an individual's income.

As things stand, PAYE as it exists in the UK would require employers to have information about all the household members before being able to deduct the correct amount of tax from a single employee.

I can't remember off-hand when things changed in the UK. It used to be that husbands and wives were taxed as a couple rather than individuals...

[NormanH]

My version of PAYE is that I calculate (roughly) the tax I will have to pay, and divide it by 10, then put it in a Livret A savings account each month, just like monthly PAYE payments until I have to pay..

[idun]

It exists, it is called retenue a la source and we have paid it for 5 years.

 

This is for non residents with income that is obtained in France and is debited just like paye straight from the salary. It is not for french residents.

 

Don't wish for it, one pays a bloody site more than residents do.

[Laurier]

Clair

When you say 'household income', do you mean husband/wife/etc - i.e. people related/same family, etc?

What would happen if you are staying in a friend's house which is your permanent (for the time being) address but your tax affairs/income are in no way related to that person? Presume you could still keep it all separate even though you are in the same residence/household?

Would be grateful if you could clarify that - am a bit confused about the 'household income'.

Thanks

Laurier

 

[Clair]

This explains it better than I can (translation).

In the case of unmarried or unrelated adults sharing a property or living together, each is taxed individually.

[Gardian]

[quote user="Clair"]I can't remember off-hand when things changed in the UK. It used to be that husbands and wives were taxed as a couple rather than individuals...
[/quote]

Yes, but PAYE existed long before that happened. You take the principle of PAYE and then work the assessment around it. Actually ........ the calculation of French personal taxation isn't a million miles (or kilometres) different to the UK process.

Of course there might have to be some changes in the structure of personal taxation vis a vis households, but it just seems to me that the payoff would be worth 20 or 30 fonctionnaires time for a year or so to put some proposals forward?

What holds anything like this back is the concept of change. For such a great country, with all its heritage and now engineering excellence, its strangely resilient to any form of change. Maybe that's why we like it?

[andyh4]

[quote user="Clair"]I think the main problem is that income tax in France is based on a household income, rather than on an individual's income.


[/quote]

 

That is not a problem Clair, it is an opportunity.

 

Germany use the same taxation of household principles and yet do have PAYE.

 

You get a basic tax code (I think there are about4 or 5) based on the household situation - single, married, married with children, separated etc.

 

You are taxed on that.  At the end of the tax year you fill in your tax form to claim back the amount of tax you have overpaid - and yes you have always overpaid.  It totally reverses the cash flow on income tax and must be a big winner for the governement.

[Laurier]

Thanks Clair. Logic told me that had to be the case. The link is very useful.

Laurier

[Clair]

[quote user="andyh4"]Germany use the same taxation of household principles and yet do have PAYE.[/quote]

That's interesting.

I know there was talk of PAYE in the early Sarkozy days, but it never came to anything.

I seem to remember some discussions here about it at the time, how everyone in France would have to pay income tax twice one year,first to pay the previous year's income tax as usual and again with PAYE...

[idun]

Surely they wouldn't though. They'd just start with the first year and forget the previous years tax.......... simply because most people could not afford to pay both. Some would gain and others would lose in that first year, but that would have to be the way it is.

 

In our case, they didn't ofcourse give a damn once we left France and had the money for the previous years tax to pay as well as the salary being taxed.  They hate people like us taking french income out of France and make sure that they get their pound of flesh.