SAVE YOUR WINTER FUEL PAYMENT

[PaulT]

Mint stated that the WFP was part of the old age pension - it is not. I received my first payment in November 2014 at the age of 62 - still got 3 years to go to my old age pension.

[powerdesal]

PaulT, whilst the WFA is not 'strictly' part of the UK State pension I believe that it is 'de facto' part of it by virtue of tradition and practice.

It was, as has been said, introduced as a payment rather than a pension increase being made for some political reason or other.

Having said that, contrary to the opening post in this thread, My wife and I have not been informed by HMRC that we will not get the payment in 2015. Perhaps this is an oversight by HMRC - who knows ?

The loss of the £200 to our household will not change our lives but I think it is a discriminatory and mean-spirited move which will save 'peanuts' in real terms.

[mint]

[quote user="PaulT"]Mint stated that the WFP was part of the old age pension - it is not. I received my first payment in November 2014 at the age of 62 - still got 3 years to go to my old age pension.[/quote]

Paul, hold out your wrists to be slapped please!

I said that "people have come to look upon it as part of the old age pension" and that, as such, it should be exportable.

Anyway, now you won't get it anymore, not even after you reach pension age[:-))]

PD, it IS mean spirited and it's not as though it is properly calculated for Brits living in France because, as Wooly has pointed out, they have taken in the winter temperatures of the DOM TOMS in their calculations.

[Gardengirl]

I thought Paul T lives in UK. A bit ironical that he can receive the WFP but has to wait for his pension. I suppose a future government will align the WFP with pension payments start date.

[mint]

[quote user="gardengirl "]I thought Paul T lives in UK. A bit ironical that he can receive the WFP but has to wait for his pension. I suppose a future government will align the WFP with pension payments start date.[/quote]

Yes, GG, you are right, he does live in the UK.  In my hurry to chastise him, I got a bit carried away with the threats![:-))]

Anyway, what IS the retirement age in the UK these days?  And is that date due to change progressively?

[Jonzjob]

We will get the WFP this year but not next, in fact we have got ours, £100 each.

We still get out Christmas bonus of £10 too, just like those nice people in prison!!! Cutting that to the thugs in prison would save cash too and they really are a captive audience [:-))]

[PaulT]

'Paul, hold out your wrists to be slapped please!'

Oooh Mint, you have got me all excited :)

[krusty]

It looks like the way is now open to getting a bit more action on the WFA , we all need to be sending emails to our MPs back in the uk.

British MP Roger Gale has today tabled a motion in the House of Commons asking for the ‘statutory instrument’ (SI) axing the payments to be anulled. It is now vital this obtains support from other MPs.

Sir Roger, who researched the avenue of a so-called ‘prayer’ against the SI on Connexion’s request, has had the motion listed on the House of Commons’ order paper (sheet for the day’s business) tomorrow (Friday). The window for this to be debated and passed is open until February 9. This is more likely to happen the more MPs lend their signatures in support.

If you want the link to where this came from , please pm me .

[Rabbie]

[quote user="PaulT"]Mint stated that the WFP was part of the old age pension - it is not. I received my first payment in November 2014 at the age of 62 - still got 3 years to go to my old age pension.[/quote]this is because since it is a relatively new payment it cannot be differentiated between men and women so it cuts in at the age a woman should receive her pension even for men. That's why I received my first WFA 5 years before my pension

[Rabbie]

Double post

[krusty]

In case you do not know your MPs email address , you can look it up here . Just enter your old UK postcode .

http://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/mps/

I found out mine is a Labour guy , my email has now been sent .

[Hereford]

Email to MP duly sent.  It is best to put in the email the address at which you are registered to vote - i.e. you most recent UK address. MP's don't reply unless they have an address!

Another good reason to stay on the voting list.  We have two more years to go unless the rules are changed on this.

[NickP]

[quote user="krusty"]In case you do not know your MPs email address , you can look it up here . Just enter your old UK postcode .

http://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/mps/

I found out mine is a Labour guy , my email has now been sent .[/quote]

Funny that your interest in local politics only occurred when something happened that didn't suit you. Still; living in Cyprus why would what happens to real local people matter to you? [:P]

[Jonzjob]

I'm not too sure who sorted that site, but when I entered GL5 for Stroud it gave me Bradford, TWICE!

I'm glad he ain't my Nautonier [:-))]

[krusty]

Jonzjob , Did you enter the full post code , I just tried GL5 2JY and it gave me stroud , a bloke called Niel .....

[Jonzjob]

Yes I did Krusty and it gave me Bradford, but when I tried it again just now it gave me Neil C!! By the way, you were just one digit out from my old post code [:-))]

[krusty]

I found this .

More fuel for the fight , if not for our fires . ;)

"As you will already know the EU comprises an area in which the free movement of EU nationals is ensured. This freedom of movement is supported by rules which provide for common treatment of social security rights and equal treatment on the provision of social security benefits. These rules are set out in Regulation 883/2004. These rules provide, in outline:

1. That you are subject to the social security legislation of one member state at any time (Article 11).

2. Cash benefits payable under the legislation of one member state should not be reduced on the fact that the recipient is residence in another member state (Article 7).

3. The United Kingdom has, until recently, provided a "Winter Fuel Payment" to UK pensioners resident in the UK only. This was prohibited under EU law (case C-Case C‑503/09, Stewart). The UK appears to have amended the rules in order to provide the benefit to pensioners resident in a number of countries only, ostensibly based on the weather in those countries. The EU rules do not provide for any available justification for this, and this does look, at first sight as though this is unlawful discrimination. "

[krusty]

A good article in the Telegraph .

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/expat-money/11355920/Expats-in-the-Med-provide-evidence-of-why-they-deserve-winter-fuel-payments.html

[idun]

So will you be demanding cold weather payments too, if your little cold snap continues?????

I noticed they have had snow in Cairo a couple of years ago, we probably could call that a cold snap too......

Weather happens, but in the main, Cyprus is balmy and France, well it is a huge country and I expected very cold winters in the Alpes. My choice, no one made me move there!

Other parts of France could be colder or warmer in winter than my old area, but no one made anyone move there either.

When I see all the cut backs in the UK, for services that actually are essential, this does make my blood boil!

[Francophile]

I do wish that people would cease being sanctimonious about the Winter Fuel Payment (WFP).

Those who seek (as has the UK Government) to link its payment to winter temperatures are missing the point entirely, as it is not linked to winter temperatures in the UK. The payment is the same in the Scilly Isles (average temperature of 9C between November and March) as it is in Dalwhinnie (average of 2.2C over the same period). Why, therefore, is it suggested that it be paid only in those countries overseas where the winters are deemed to be cold? Especially when the methodology used in the calculation of average winter temperatures is so seriously and cynically flawed!

The UK benefit that is dependent upon the actual winter temperature is not the WFP, but the Cold Weather Payment, a payment that is means-tested. The WFP is no more and no less than a top-up to the State Pension but one which, by virtue of the fact that it is non-taxable, comes at a greater cost to the Exchequer than had it been absorbed into the State Pension itself. If it is paid to everybody in the UK who meets the age qualification, then it is immoral not to pay it to those UK State Pensioners who are now living overseas. And, of course, any failure to pay it to those who have retired to a member state of the EU will be declared illegal in due course.

In the great scheme of things, suppression of the WFP isn’t something that will have a huge financial impact on many people. (It certainly isn’t of the same order of magnitude as the proposed removal of the zero-rated tax band, where we could be talking serious money. And it isn’t of the same order of magnitude as the failure to make inflationary uplifts to pensions payable in Australia, Canada and elsewhere.) In fact, the recent rise in the value of Sterling will, if it is maintained, more than compensate for the loss of WFP. But there’s a principle involved. We, who live overseas, are being denied, quite unjustifiably, part of our State Pension Package. Why should we accept this treatment with a Gallic shrug?

Those of us who live overseas are easy targets for posturing Government ministers as many of us have become disenfranchised. And please don’t anybody try to tell me that nobody made us leave the UK or that we knew at the time we left that eventually our vote would be denied to us! I know that nobody forced me to leave UK and I accept that I knew at the time that ability to vote would be time-limited. It doesn’t make it right!

[mint]

Well argued, Francophile.

I made a point about WFP being part of the state pension several posts back but I couldn't match your post for the elegance of the construction of your argument and it was largely ignored.

[idun]

Francophile, easy targets when chosing to live abroad, yes, because there was a choice and the choice to leave was made.

The thing is that ONCE we have left, then the british government doesn't know what sort of allowances / aide etc one can obtain where one then lives. Let us face it, there is a sort of winter fuel allowance in France for those who are poor. Should people be getting both? Certainly some will be eligible in France at least.

I simply cannot balance this money going overseas when the current band of ne'er do wells in charge, which are generally known as HM Government are making such radical cutbacks for very basic services in the UK. I have grave doubts about any benefits going overseas apart from the state pension.

Currently the EU, say 'yes' this must happen, but the EU is full of BS, let's say 'Bonkers Stuff' to be polite, they make sweeping decisions without a care for which country pays. There are great disparities between each countries working practices with regards to benefits, sadly 'numpties' (our leaders) gave them too much power. The EU...... where is the thought or common sense? (yes I 've looked at their web site, honest as the day is long and as white as driven snow.........oops I've just seen a pig flying past)

Even if the WFP was said to replace a pension increase, quite a long time ago, mid 90's maybe earlier, it is still what it is, a winter fuel payment and an extra benefit.

[andyh4]

Idun,

I was tempted to reply to your earlier post but since Francofile's post was so much better expressed than my efforts, I refrained.

However since you cannot leave this bone alone, let me play a scenario passed you.

The French Government (who are hardly in a better position financially than the UK and equally have gaps in its welfare provisions) decides that all pensioners who have left France should no longer get full health cost coverage through their European health cover, but should receive 70% cover, just like the folk back home in France. You would then have to fund the 30% due to the NHS or pay for health insurance - but secure in the knowledge that it was your choice that caused this.

How does that feel?

It would save the French Government a small amount - just like the UK - but I am sure it would be popular with the French electorate.

The fair answer would be to means test the WFA but we are constantly told that this would be uneconomic and a flat rate payment is the best way. Well so be it.

The savings to the UK through this mealy mouthed act is estimated at £30m per year. This is not enough to equip, let alone run, one A&E department. The same could be recouped by increasing income tax for all tax payers by around 6p per week!

As for your later point about double payment of benefits if a person were poor enough (including their declared WFA payment) by getting French payment as well as the UK WFA is very poorly made, since the same person in the UK would in all probability be eligible for any cold weather payments. I admit that the latter is not available at all times but in many respects it is a fairer way of paying when there is need and only when there is need. So double standards - double payment in the UK = good, double payment in France = bad. No I cannot sign on to that. Sorry

[YCCMB]

Here's a thought. If I understand correctly, when you have to make an insurance claim in France due to damage caused by adverse weather, the onus is on you to provide evidence from the weather monitoring services that the storm or whatever actually happened.

Would it be beyond the abilities of individuals and the powers that be to put the onus on overseas residents to prove and claim for weather that would trigger a winter fuel payment? So, for example, if temperatures remained below freezing, or below a "trigger point" for a defined period, then individuals could actually claim WFA?

After all, I suspect that in many of the areas where it may, indeed, be cold - or colder than La Reunion - the severity of the cold and it's duration isn't long or constant. If this payment were to be proportional to the time for which it was required, maybe it would be a compromise?

[andyh4]

That would seem very reasonable wouldn't it? Except that someone on here posted earlier that they had received a reply from the Department for Work and Pensions that, when the inclusion of DOM/TOM in the calculations for the averages for France was queried, stated that the department were only interested in whole countries and could not contemplate splitting up into regions (let alone individual numbers for your commune).

The fact is that if the law goes ahead, it will be challenged by someone and will then be taken through the legal system probably as far as the European courts in Strasbourg. How much of the savings would that erode?? Probably a good couple of year's worth.

So those wanting to avoid Government waste might be best served by asking their MP to support the early day motion.