Ford Anglia Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Nowt to do with France, so I've posted it here. Please read on, it's not just (another) rant.While I was In France this October, my other car got caught speeding by a camera van.They wrote to me as the RK, and I wrote back saying I was in France, so "not me guv", and letting them know that there are three other people in my house with my permission to drive said vehicle and insurance that will allow them so to do. I had asked all three and no-one remembers driving on that day at that time.I got a letter back telling me they had photographic evidence, but could not send it me unless I requested it, but...........that if I DID NOT request it, they send me to magistartes court for failing to declare the driver[:@]So I requested it.Today it came, but the photos are useless. In only the massive blow up can you even see that there is someone behind the wheel.[8-)]The accompanying letter tells me I MUST respond or be summonsed, and gives me only three options.1. Name the driver.2. Accept that it was me and pay up.3. Say it was me but I want a court hearing.What on earth do I do now?And hasn't the UK come to a sorry state when these people have so much power?TIA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJSLIV Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 The law was changed after a number of high profile celebrity cases where the drivers (footballers?) were unable to recollect who was driving their car at outrageous speeds on the motorways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicandJo Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Can you prove you were in France? Airline or ferry tickets would do nicely. I think it needs to be boarding cards though - email itinerary etc won't stand up as they don't prove you actually travelled. Receipts from that day for a credit card in your name would also do. If you don't know who was driving then is it not down to the coppers to prove who was? I'd be tempted to send them the names of ALL the people who can drive it, along with your boarding cards/credit card receipts and tell them it's their job to find out who was driving not yours! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 It is harsh treatment when you were not the driver, but because so many people used this loophole and claimed they were not driver that these new rules were introduced. If it had been a front facing camera then the drivers face would be seen. You are now in a catch 22 situation if you cannot name the driver as if you take the blame then at you next renewal you have to inform your Insurance company and may face increased premiums. So you are effectively punished twice, very harsh treatment.As it is only a month or so since the offence, surely one of the other authorised drivers must remember if they were driving on that road or has your number plate been cloned.Baz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekJ Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 It might be worth you having a look on this site http://www.pepipoo.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh4 Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 [quote user="BJSLIV"]The law was changed after a number of high profile celebrity cases where the drivers (footballers?) were unable to recollect who was driving their car at outrageous speeds on the motorways. [/quote] I believe it was the Chief Constable of Stockton on Tees who first used this defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patf Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Are your family sure they didn't lend the car to someone else temporarily? This happened to us once - we had let a friend use the car and he had a bump and forgot to tell us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre ZFP Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 I seem to remember a change to the law (or proposed change) that in the case of a driver that cannot/will not be named then the Registered Keeper is in the frame for it and gets DOUBLE the penalty/points, same for congestion charges.So much for Habeus Corpus (did I spell that right?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Are you absolutely, absolutely sure that it could not have been one of your French resident friends that has only now remembered driving the car on said date?EdittedMy UK neighbour had a similar problem, could prove where he was etc but to no avail, when he requested the picture it was a Vauxhall Astra of a different colour to his Vauxhall Cavalier. You would think that would have been the end of it but oh no "computer says no!"He receieved ever escalating warning letters until he was finally summoned, he wrote saying that he would appear to plead not guilty and that they had no case, it was finally dropped a few days before the hearing but without an apology or admission of error, one of the old "in this instance we have decided not to pursue this case" letters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Anglia Posted November 20, 2007 Author Share Posted November 20, 2007 Thuis doesn't surprise me. to the bitter end, the safety camera partnership will be hoping that he just caves in and pays up.I think I'm going to write back giving the names of all three people who could have been driving, and also offer to put myself down, and take the points, if it will help...........but since it's illegal to make an untrue statement, see what they say to that.Amusingly, one of my witnesses that I was in France is, wait for it.............a magistrate, who also happens to me my bro in law[:P]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 That sounds sensible let them chase the other three, who if in turn name another 3 potential suspects, who in turn do the same then the system should soon overload like a chain letter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 I'm not sure of your way out of this awkward, and possibly delicate situation which, from the sound of it probably, involves other family membersOne thing is for sure, whatever the temptation to pay up and make it go away, you MUST NOT and indeed CANNOT now lie to the police by saying you were the driver when A, you were't and B, you've already told them so. That could get you into far worse trouble than just telling the absolute truth and letting events take their course.Although the letter you have received lists 3 options there is a 4th which is to write them a letter with your explaination, enclosing copies of your tickets or credit card receipts or whatever you have to prove you were out of the country, including a letter from your Magistrate friend who was with you, then just sit back and wait.Ultimately it may result in summons and a court appearance and if it did then you could plead not guilty and produce your evidence. I also would seriously consider trooping out the other 3 drivers to swear under oath that the were not driving. If they can stand in the witness box and honestly swear to that then it must surely go in your favour. Remember perjury carries jail time !Finally, and I'm sorry to say this but I think you maybe realise it yourself now, I think anyone who leaves a car in the UK under those circumstances is barking mad and the first thing I would be doing would be doing is changing the registered keeper to one of the three UK users so that they can take the rap ext time. If they won't accept that then I can't see that you have any option but to lock it up and take the keys away with you [:-))] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 [quote user="Pierre ZFP"]I seem to remember a change to the law (or proposed change) that in the case of a driver that cannot/will not be named then the Registered Keeper is in the frame for it and gets DOUBLE the penalty/points, same for congestion charges.So much for Habeus Corpus (did I spell that right?)[/quote]That was brought into force very recently, you are correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Anglia Posted December 3, 2007 Author Share Posted December 3, 2007 So.............the pics duly arrived. Three of them: a front view of the car with the speed in the bottom right hand corner, a closer view of the car and a view of the windscreen.Only in the last pic is it possible even to see that there is a PERSON driving, let alone tell who it is.However, the pics were accompanied by yet ANOTHER letter full of threats, and giving me three options:1. Give the name of the driver.2. Admit it was me, and pay up (form included for my card details).3. Admit it was me and elect a court hearing.I have written back explaining yet again that I cannot do any of the three things above, and asking the writer to tell me what SHE WANTS ME TO DO, rather than just threatening me.Meanwhile, "my" magistrate says that if it were to come before him, (obviously it won't as he'd have to withdraw), he'd throw it out.More if/when I hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 You might find this interesting. Loads of Police officers caught speeding whilst on duty but they refused to say who was driving at the time and their cases were dropped (and nobody was procecuted, nobody fined, nobody punished). Nothing to do with then pursuing anybody - just their refusal to say who was driving (it seems).http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7130028.stmIan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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