Chief

[quote user="woolybanana"]Pious cobblers![/quote] What is???????????

[quote user="Russethouse"] I would guess that all the replies that seem to think it's ok to use these terms, are from white members of the forum? That says a lot about them. Really - perhaps you should read this http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/yasmin-alibhai-brown/we-pretend-to-be-united-but-racism-festers-among-the-ethnic-minorities-701419.html [/quote] So is this a justification for racism?????????

[quote user="Russethouse"] but what would Sooty's life and career be worth if he told Charlie Boy not to address him by such a racist epithet Why would it have made a difference ? http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2009/01/14/sooty-defends-prince-charles-over-his-racist-nickname-91466-22689552/ It looks he was a successful business man without Prince Charles patronage  I don't condone it, it's just a theory , I suspect it was the fact that Jade Goody used racist terms with anger that made other  people so outraged [/quote] "Why would it have made a difference?"........ Now you are beginning to sound ignorant. Its about social acceptance within ones chosen group. He may not like Charles at all, but in order to mix within those social circles, in which Charles also mixes, acceptance by Charles will and would make a massive difference to the individual. It really isn't rocket science, and i hazard a guess that there is some pretence to ignorance here on your behalf. I served in the british army. Something i now regret as i feel quite strongly now that person of ethnic origin should die for this country, given the widespread (my opinion) racial intolerance that exists. In order to exist with a degree of acceptance and harmony, it wasn't good enough to be better than the others, you HAD to fit in, you HAD to be seen as one of them, at times there was even pretence to be as STUPID and IGNORANT as many of them were due to there poor educational backgrounds and lack of any social or other understanding of the world in which they lived. Personally, i would have been delighted if Charles' asian 'friend' had smacked him straight in the mouth, and Harry had received similar treatment from his '****' friend. Now that would have been some demonstration that this kind of language is unacceptable...even from the ignorant and priviledge.

[quote user="Russethouse"] but what would Sooty's life and career be worth if he told Charlie Boy not to address him by such a racist epithet Why would it have made a difference ? http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2009/01/14/sooty-defends-prince-charles-over-his-racist-nickname-91466-22689552/ It looks he was a successful business man without Prince Charles patronage I don't condone it, it's just a theory , I suspect it was the fact that Jade Goody used racist terms with anger that made other people so outraged [/quote] "Why would it have made a difference?"........ Now you are beginning to sound ignorant. Its about social acceptance within ones chosen group. He may not like Charles at all, but in order to mix within those social circles, in which Charles also mixes, acceptance by Charles will and would make a massive difference to the individual. It really isn't rocket science, and i hazard a guess that there is some pretence to ignorance here on your behalf. I served in the british army. Something i now regret as i feel quite strongly now that person of ethnic origin should die for this country, given the widespread (my opinion) racial intolerance that exists. In order to exist with a degree of acceptance and harmony, it wasn't good enough to be better than the others, you HAD to fit in, you HAD to be seen as one of them, at times there was even pretence to be as STUPID and IGNORANT as many of them were due to there poor educational backgrounds and lack of any social or other understanding of the world in which they lived. Personally, i would have been delighted if Charles' asian 'friend' had smacked him straight in the mouth, and Harry had received similar treatment from his '****' friend. Now that would have been some demonstration that this kind of language is unacceptable...even from the ignorant and priviledge.

[quote user="Dog"]It is an ambiguous subject title but it could still be considered a little unusual to have a 1200 as a first bike. [/quote] ahh. Agreed, as most of my friends pointed out at the time. What i found was that at 6'1" and 18 stone, i tended to dwarf the 600cc range, and quite frankly, i looked stupid on them. Another factor was that the price differential between used and new then was well within my comfort zone, and the idea of looking stupid for 12 months on a bike i didn't want, and buying second hand when i knew i would soon be craving for a new bike, resulted in a decision to bite the bullet and go big on both size and budget. Was right decision for me, but perhaps not for everyone. At 38, and with over 20 years in a car, brain ruled more than ego, so not such an unwise choice for me.

i was once billed for cancelling an appointment with a dentist. No problem. It was about 8 months later when they rang and said they needed to cancel as the dentist was going to be late. I posted a bill to them for my time. The subsequent discussions over the telephone resulted in my £16 being returned to me by cheque, and pretty much an agreement that we would treat each other with a little more respect in future. Result

I don't condone abuse in anyway, but i have to add that the smell of hypocrisy is putrid here in scotland. As an englishman, i have to listen to diatribes from the likes of Alex (its all the fault of the english) salmond on a daily basis. The active promotion of the notion that any failing in scotland is the fault directly of the english is alive and well, and they accuse black people of playing the race card. They have slagged of the british parliament left right and centre up here, and then whinge because Clarkson calls one of their own a childish little name. They even want the word british struck from government correspondence because they say that british actually means english. Pathetic

[quote user="Frederick"]As Michael Portillo said on TV the other night ...If the bonus is not given they are hardly likely to leave.... nobody is hireing "[/quote] A contract is a contract. They have to pay. The Govt missed a trick by not making it a condition of investment that bonuses were reviewed in light of the financial failure of the bank, and that any govt investment would be conditional upon a satisfactory outturn from such a review. I think the bankers would have got the message. :-)

[quote user="Dog"][quote user="Chief"]Suzuki Bandit 1200 Honda CBR1100 Super blackbird (carbed) Honda CBR1100 Super blackbird (Injected) Triumph Rocket 2300 BMW K1200S (with all trick bits)[/quote] So you started with a Bandit with balancing wheels and a 30bhp kit? [/quote] Are you perhaps referring to the new restrictions on riders, or the bike i learned to ride on???? Not sure but for clarity. I learned on (but did not own) a ER5. Aged 38..ish The first bike i owned was a Bandit 1200S There were no restrictions on the size of bike you could own after passing your test 2002-3 I passed my test on a tuesday and picked up the bike from Stoke-on-Trent on the saturday morning.

[quote user="Dog"][quote user="Chief"]Suzuki Bandit 1200 Honda CBR1100 Super blackbird (carbed) Honda CBR1100 Super blackbird (Injected) Triumph Rocket 2300 BMW K1200S (with all trick bits)[/quote] So you started with a Bandit with balancing wheels and a 30bhp kit? [/quote] Sorry you have lost me with the last comment

[quote user="odile"]I agree Sweet. Please don't it him over the head as he already has got sore knees. I had dropped the subject as it was going no where. But having read Chief's poignant comment - I was incensed by the extreme insensitivity of the reply I bid you Good Night. [/quote] Odile. Thanks for your comments and understanding. The other side of this coin in a sense is that by having outlets where people can demonstrate their ignorance (not directed at any posters here) allows a reasoned and challenging debate. The thatcher woman has exposed herself to everyone. We all now know where her understanding of the world she lives in rests. Never thought much of her mothers policies, but i am she she brought her up to know a little better. With regard to those who state she made private comments, i would say this. There is no such thing as a private conversation, email, phone call, natter in a pub over a pint anymore. Once it is out and heard it can travel anywhere. I personally never say anything to anyone that i seriously don't want repeating. I never put a single word in an email that i am not prepared to have read, or in a text message either. The reality is that we truly have no idea where our information goes......... :-)

Suzuki Bandit 1200 Honda CBR1100 Super blackbird (carbed) Honda CBR1100 Super blackbird (Injected) Triumph Rocket 2300 BMW K1200S (with all trick bits)

Not sure if this is on the same subject matter, but i recently read that Porsche make more money out of stock market trading than they do selling cars worldwide. One commentator called them a hedge fund that also sells cars, so dramatic is the shift from core business.

[quote user="Puzzled"]I do and try and have a look at a number of UK news websites. It does almost seem that there is a concerted effort by the DM and its readers to have certain words that died out with ' Love thy neighbour' reintroduced as acceptable mainstream terms.  Referring to a black tennis player as a gollywog, I don't know how that can't be racist. It may be harmless to those of us with whiteskin but I'm sure many people of afro caribbean origin growing up in the UK not that many years ago wouldn't agree. Bit like calling someone a 'paki' , it just isn't the same as Brit because for many people who had it shouted in their direction it was usually followed by 'f**k off back home'. [/quote] I think you hit the nail on the head. As a black man i find the use offensive, because i grew up asnd went to school with the words "f*ck off home you golliwog, nigger, coon, etc" ringing in my ears most days. I am sure that to the majority of white children growing up with me it was just a harmless toy, and i guess unless you were subject to the abuse, it is hard to understand. But for those who think it is a case of PC (whatever that is...figure it something to do with being polite and respectful to all, but who knows), feel free to call me a golliwog anytime, and i will feel at liberty to do my utmost to abuse, harass and intimidate you as well....no problem at all.

[quote user="Russethouse"]Please don't bother - I live 5 minutes from the Chiltern Hills, 5 minutes from an area where I can eat 'around the world' and can be in London in 45 minutes (door to door) and Portsmouth is 90 minutes if I am using the ferry. If I am flying I can get to Souhampton airport in about an hour - believe me, there are much worse places to live....[/quote] Touche

I suppose all those whining about the possible use of mobiles on phones and the potential for disturbance, are the same people who miraculously have a negative impact on all environments they occupy.  For instance: You don't want to listen to some inane chat on a phone, but others are expected to listen to your inane chat to the wife sat next to you  (What is it thats makes you a special case BTW). You don't want to listen to chat on the phone while on the plane, but you don't mind flying over the houses of others and polluting their environment, even though they object. Neither are you likely to be the sort to have whining kids in tow disturbing everyones peace, nor are you likely to be to so fat that you occupy your own and half of the seat next to you. Phones on a plane, oh no...unless of course you need to make what would only be an 'emergency' call, then it would be ok. It must be great being perfect.  Thank god you have left the UK!! Best advice i can offer, is get over yourselves.  After reading this post i will definately use mine and advise my son and wife to use theirs just to annoy the pompous pr*c*s who seems to think that only their needs are relevant, and that only their way of doing things is valid.  In fact we might even sit in a row and ring each other!!! As for the prat suggesting (implicitly) the use of a jammer.  I sincerely hope you or others do use one.  The sentence for interfering and endangering the plane has got to be stiff. And look on the bright side, inside a prison cell, mobile phones will be the least of your worries.

Can you imagine the threads going up if tehse people were Muslim:.................................................... Disabled fliers get 'rescue' areas Phoenix Sky Harbor has created "areas of rescue assistance" for disabled travelers who might not be able to use elevators during an emergency. They are well-marked areas throughout the airport where people in wheelchairs can gather during evacuation. "Firefighters would know to check (the areas) for people who need assistance down stairs," says spokeswoman Julie Rodriguez. Typically located in the landings of stairwells, the areas will be equipped with a two-way intercom system. There are 18 rescue areas at the airport, and more are in the works. edited to read: Muslim fliers get 'rescue' areas Phoenix Sky Harbor has created "areas of religious assistance" for muslim travelers who might not be able to use prayer mats during an emergency. They are well-marked areas throughout the airport where muslims can gather during evacuation. "Firefighters would know to check (the areas) for muslims who need assistance praying," says spokeswoman Julie Rodriguez. Typically located in the landings of stairwells, and always facing mecca the areas will be equipped with a two-way intercom system, prayer  mats, non-alcoholic drinks, halal canteens and a benefits office. There are 18 rescue areas at the airport, and more are in the works.

[quote user="oakbri"] [quote user="Tresco"]...I don't remember anyone implying that the only chancers are non-white, in fact a couple of posts have mentioned that the Sainsbury decision could, for example, pave the way for Catholics to refuse to serve birth control, many catholics are white. No you didn't state that.[:)]All the quotes and current incidences you and others cite, which are reported by various sections of the media, are about Muslims though. You don't think there is anything odd about that? [/quote] I don't know Tresco, could it be that they are the group most predominant in trying it on. It's not only in the UK this link is about Somali taxi drivers in the USA quoting their religion as a reason not to carry passngers carrying alcohol, when it is widely believed that they are using the tactic to get out of picking up small fares. http://www.usatoday.com/money/biztravel/2006-09-17-airport-check-in-usat_x.htm [/quote] Seems you were a little ecomonical with the data.  Would appear that there is NOT a wide belief that the tactic is used to avoid small fares (actually it states short distance), but that it is a concern (assume there are other concerns as well). The article states that currently taxi drivers refusing fares are required to go to the back of the taxi rank queue (thus potentially losing more than the 'Big' fares you allude to them preferring).  this policy is under review, but still in force.  Text below: Minneapolis-St. Paul is concerned that its taxi service is deteriorating. Citing their religious beliefs, some Muslim taxi drivers from Somalia are refusing to transport customers carrying or suspected of carrying alcohol. It started with one driver a few years ago, but the average number of fare refusals has grown to about three a day, says airport spokesman Patrick Hogan. "Travelers often feel surprised and insulted," he says. "Sometimes, several drivers in a row refuse carriage." Taxi drivers and officials from the airport, taxi companies and the Muslim American Society are discussing how to address the issue. Partly out of concern that taxi drivers might be citing religion to avoid short-distance fares, the airport is now forcing drivers who refuse a fare to go to the end of the line for waiting taxis. It is not a popular decision among drivers, Hogan says. Might just be me being wrong again, but don't some airlines refuse to take people if they feel they are drunk, or have been drinking too heavily.

[quote user="oakbri"] [quote user="Tresco"]...I don't remember anyone implying that the only chancers are non-white, in fact a couple of posts have mentioned that the Sainsbury decision could, for example, pave the way for Catholics to refuse to serve birth control, many catholics are white. No you didn't state that.[:)]All the quotes and current incidences you and others cite, which are reported by various sections of the media, are about Muslims though. You don't think there is anything odd about that? [/quote] I don't know Tresco, could it be that they are the group most predominant in trying it on. It's not only in the UK this link is about Somali taxi drivers in the USA quoting their religion as a reason not to carry passngers carrying alcohol, when it is widely believed that they are using the tactic to get out of picking up small fares. http://www.usatoday.com/money/biztravel/2006-09-17-airport-check-in-usat_x.htm [/quote] Or could it be that people such as yourself are ONLY interested in quoting incidents that involve muslims...............don't know for sure, but i could make an outlandish statement and claim it to be a 'fact'....... PS:  How do you know its a small fare until the client is in the cab.  

[quote user="KathyF"] [quote user="Chief"] Expanding this a little then.  What isd your position on female firefighters?  Reason i ask, they are not permitted to fight fires in radioactive environments in case of damage to their reproductive organs.  Fortunately male firefighters don't have reproductive organs so i guess thats okay........ [/quote] Chief, I think the likely reason for this ruling is that a woman firefighter might be in the very early stages of pregnancy without knowing it. Exposure to radioactivity at this crucial state of development could very badly damage the embryo. [/quote] Maybe so Kathy, and i am agreeing with and acknowledging the sentiment. However, in line with the discussion above, the dangers are kniown before you join (the considtions/requirements in relation to the supermarket), and people appear to be saying, those people have no right to be in the job.  Just wondering whether this is all just part and parcel of the whole anti-muslim crap that not only is seeping its insidious way into the forum, but is so prevalent in many others.  Why can't people provide a balanced argument at the outset,l instead of just focussing on muslims al the time.  eems there is clearly an anti-muslim agenda.  The destruction of the statistics present as fact earlier in the thread highlights the problem with great clarity, and many thanks to the individual who took the time to destroy those so called 'facts'.....

[quote user="oakbri"] I read recently that one of the UK supermarket chains was going allow muslim check out staff to refuse to serve alcohol to people. Don't ask me to prove it as it was way before christmas and I can't remember where I read it and I don't know if it ever came to anything. The point is that, as you said, immigrants were discriminated against in the work place, yet here we have the same immigrants trying to dictate which part of the job they want to do. As an employer do you employ the British applicant who will just do the whole job or the immigrant who will only do the part that suits them? To avoid discrimination you must try to fit in and not expect your host country to adopt to you. [/quote] Expanding this a little then.  What isd your position on female firefighters?  Reason i ask, they are not permitted to fight fires in radioactive environments in case of damage to their reproductive organs.  Fortunately male firefighters don't have reproductive organs so i guess thats okay........ I think the issue is this.  If you can comfortably accommodate a specific request or dispensation without detriment to service or standards, why not do so. Crosses, turbans, no radiation, no alcohol,...not detriment then why not??????????

[quote user="Chief"][quote user="oakbri"] A friend of mine was telling me how his young son brought a letter home from school saying they were taking the children to visit a mosque "in order to give a balanced veiw of faiths", my friend bumped into the headmaster outside the school and said that it was fair enough but asked when were they going to visit a church as well, the headmaster said they were not, as it might offend the parents of the muslim children. [/quote] Can you provide the name of the school and headmaster by any chance.  I would love to take this up (as unbelievable and hearsay as it sounds [;-)]) [/quote] Oakbri, you seem to have forgotten this one.  Is it as i suspected, just tittle tattle that you are repeating for effect or is there some basis to it.

[quote user="oakbri"] Charlotte I wasn't having a go at Buddhists, quite the opposite in fact, I was just being ironic. And while I don't doubt that muslims are peaceful, when the press show a mob of thousands, with machettes, descending on the British embassy in Khartoum it doesn't look to me like a few radical clerics, it looked like a mob of thousands, then again the BBC could have used camera trickery. [/quote] What it was and as widely reported (but tyou missed tghose reports) was an orchestrated mob demo by the government to counteract growing wider public concern internationally about the teacher.  As i said, widely reported as such at the time, but conveniently forgotten.  The tactic was often used by Saddam Hussein during his reign, where by public were 'encouraged' to go out and demonstrate 'their' loyalty.  I can understand you forgetting though.

[quote user="oakbri"] A friend of mine was telling me how his young son brought a letter home from school saying they were taking the children to visit a mosque "in order to give a balanced veiw of faiths", my friend bumped into the headmaster outside the school and said that it was fair enough but asked when were they going to visit a church as well, the headmaster said they were not, as it might offend the parents of the muslim children. [/quote] Can you provide the name of the school and headmaster by any chance.  I would love to take this up (as unbelievable and hearsay as it sounds [;-)])

[quote user="Hoddy"]Not at all. You go into production Bugbear, I'll buy one. This little village becomes a rat-run between 8.30 & 9.00 every day. Hoddy[/quote] horrendous, a full 30 minutes of death defying congestion everyday