Gluestick Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Carried out the usual post lease vacation inspection yesterday on one of our properties.It is a charming turn of the century flat, with most of the original architectural features intact.Two years ago we carried out a complete refurb: including new kitchen, bathroom and restyled utility room, plus redecorate.The bathroom was replaced with a rather nice white suite, selected to sympathetically reflect the period ambience. Note the curly Loo seat.Look at the loo seat! And then look at the immediate post-renovation original!They have managed to not only obviously break the new seat but also somehow crack the WC pan at the rear.It wasn't them of course..................................The tenants wrote and said, I quote: "We have now vacated the flat. All clean & tidy. "I know have to drop everything this morning and rush up there and clean the bloody place as I can't find the cleaner in time and new tenants move in tomorrow.And of course, when you deduct rectification costs from their deposit plus legitimate management fees (professional time costs money!) you are suddenly Peter Rachman's cousin!Urghh![:-))]Original Loo[IMG]http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i278/Michaeleff/RIMG0028.jpg[/IMG]Now![IMG]http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i278/Michaeleff/PicsMay08002.jpg[/IMG]Bathscreen: "Cleaned"![IMG]http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i278/Michaeleff/PicsMay08008-1.jpg[/IMG]Bath Shower Control[IMG]http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i278/Michaeleff/PicsMay08004.jpg[/IMG]Taps[IMG]http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i278/Michaeleff/PicsMay08006.jpg[/IMG]Moulding Damage: Described by tenants as "Fair Wear and Tear"!! After only One Year![IMG]http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i278/Michaeleff/MM0014.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i278/Michaeleff/MM0023.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i278/Michaeleff/MM0022.jpg[/IMG] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Unbelievable!!How long did they stay in the flat? one year???Obviously the definition of clean and tidy is not the same for everyone.............. [:-))]Hope this is an exception................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted June 27, 2008 Author Share Posted June 27, 2008 Just one year, Frenchie.The previous lot chopped chunks out of the kitchen worksurface and took down wall cupboards.The lot before that took down kitchen wallcupboards and put up (badly and dangerously!) inferior cupboards of a different style.Last lot were Special Needs Teacher (she) and well paid City banker (He).Lot before that were School Teacher (he) and local council officer (her).Lot before that were male trauma nurse (he) and Hospital Care Assistant (she).All in long term salaried employment. Thus none were indigent oiks. (Which we would not take of course, as each and every tenant has to go through a rigorous vetting process.).It is the arrogant contempt for other people's property which gets me. And unlike so many, we don't seek top rents and we do look after our properties with repairs carried out very rapidly, so we stick to our side of the bargain.I can see why "Slum Landlords" behave as they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nectarine Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 What awful experiences! I have two long term lets, one an elderly lady who is very reliable and a pleasure to deal with, and the other a chap who has decorated the house and totally replanted the garden (all with permission) and who replaced the washing machine at his expense since he said it was probably his fault that he conked out. Never a moment's worry and always on time with the rent, and both been in for years (and hopefully more). Now I am renting out another house, via a lettings agency, and fingers crossed we get good tenants again.Anyway, just wanted to say that there ARE good tenants out there ... somewhere. Fingers crossed that you get a good 'un as your next tenant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Your description of what has happened to your flat resonates thoroughly with me.We had a beautiful maisonette (not really for letting, all done out for ourselves) back in the 1990s which we let to tenants as the property market was crap, much as it is now, and a sale was not on the cards.Let it to a divorced chap who had 2 little girls to stay at weekends. He was a University Lecturer; we knew his mother and brother (schoolteacher). You'd think a "safe" tenant, local family known to us, etc. etc.Left most of our own furniture as we had our own house that was fully furnished. Property was absolutely disgusting at the end of his tenancy. All furniture was offered to the tenant, all kitchen and bathroom fittings had to be replaced. Ditto all carpets. Whole place had to be professionally cleaned and completely redecorated.Sold it more or less without any gain, just to get rid of it and the tenant.Makes you want to weep. But, this is modern day society. No respect for the feelings of others or of their property. Generalisation? Maybe, but true of large sections of society, at least where we lived in South Wales. And we were supposed to have been in a "genteel" seaside retirement area.Chin up, old chap. At least you are shot of this lot of horrible tenants. I wish I could say that the next lot might be better, but I think you can only hope for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted June 27, 2008 Author Share Posted June 27, 2008 What really gets me, Sweets, is that this property which everyone agrees is lovely: most desirable part of the town, sea views, covered balcony, garden, typical old Viccy-early Eddie period property with gorgeous mouldings etc, was a flat I modernised and completely re-worked over 30 years ago for my late Mum in Law and she was so happy there until she passed on.Since then it has been again modernised and improved. Mrs G and I did consider it as our retirement piede a terre for the UK.And of course when one takes the little ba$$tard$ to task they become highly exercised and demand their full deposit back and lie and lie, and think I'm so stoopid I'll believe 'em!Now of course with the new secure deposit scheme it will prove even harder, take far longer and cost yet more dosh to see right served. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Please could uexplain that is the law in the UK ? I mean regarding the deposit .. etcteachers have been quoted a certain number of times in the previous posts.. I am a teacher [:-))] .. and I don't think I am dirty !![:-))]............................. [;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Once you let people live in a property that you know are utter b******s and who have trashed things and used it like a public amenity site, I doubt you and Mrs Gluey would want to live there yourselves, even just as a pied a terre.Mentally dissociate yourselves from the place (I know that's not easy with your happy memories of MIL), and just think of it in purely monetary terms as an investment and nothing more.You'd then be able to sell it sometime in the future and find another place for yourselves. It's the only way if you don't want to be forever stewing about what these people have done to your lovely property. By the time you and Mrs G want to use it, you'd have so much work to do on it that you'd probably want to start afresh anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted June 27, 2008 Author Share Posted June 27, 2008 Not all teachers are dirty, Frenchie. Very few in fact, in my experience.It does however seem that certain type have a rather relaxed attitude to personal hygiene though!I well remember when I was a County Council Co-opted Senior School Governor, taking Mrs Gluey to the farewell dinner for the departing Head Teacher.It was at the time a problem school we were in process of turning around.On one long table were a scruffy noisy bunch of adults, mainly dressed in denims behaving rather badly.Mmrs Gluey and I were of course on the Gov's table with the retiring Head. Mrs G turned to me and asked "Who are that lot over there?""The teachers!" I replied."My goodness!" she responded, "I thought they were old boys and girls!"The law in the UK changed a couple of years ago. When one lets a property one takes a security deposit of (normally) one month's rent to cover breakages, damage and any rent shortfall when the lease finishes.By law now this must be covered by a scheme and in the event of any dispute between landlord and tenant, then the dispute has to be decided by an arbitration process.http://landlordlaw.blogspot.com/2007/03/tenancy-deposit-scheme-update.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted June 27, 2008 Author Share Posted June 27, 2008 [quote user="sweet 17"]Once you let people live in a property that you know are utter b******s and who have trashed things and used it like a public amenity site, I doubt you and Mrs Gluey would want to live there yourselves, even just as a pied a terre.Mentally dissociate yourselves from the place (I know that's not easy with your happy memories of MIL), and just think of it in purely monetary terms as an investment and nothing more.You'd then be able to sell it sometime in the future and find another place for yourselves. It's the only way if you don't want to be forever stewing about what these people have done to your lovely property. By the time you and Mrs G want to use it, you'd have so much work to do on it that you'd probably want to start afresh anyway.[/quote]It aint that bad, Sweets!We've had some good tenants, too.Normally, I carry out periodic inspections during the course of the lease (the new one is again for One Year) and if things are starting to go awry then I jump!Whilst normally I am a very nice easy going guy, when people try and take the P, I sort of go green and metamorphise into Mr Nasty! [:D]Unfortunately, as I had quite a serious op last year with what has proven a long recovery period, unusually, my eye has not been totally on the ball for 18 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Katie Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Thanks for the link Gluey, I am in the process of renting my 'old home' now that I am in France and, typical of me have not updated myself with this law.To be honest, and I have had many tenants over many years, if the only damage done was that in the photos, I think you have come out trumps and should be thankful. One tenant even attempted a demolition job on one of my properties, then did a midnight bunk [:@]Just out of curiosity, what period is your bathroom suite sympathetic to? [blink] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted June 27, 2008 Author Share Posted June 27, 2008 If I may suggest JK go with this scheme: http://www.mydeposits.co.uk/In this one you stick the dosh on deposit (and thus earn the interest) and all you do is pay a small premium for each tenancy.On the others, you have to pay the deposit into the scheme's bank. Crafty!The property is very early Edwardian.It is always difficult I think to find reasonable things which don't clash, yet emphasise the ambience. It wasn't a very expensive suite: came from dear old Wickes, the landlord's friend!Much nicer than the plain simple white china.[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Katie Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 That's great, cheers Gluey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 I agree with you GS that it is the better scheme in that at least you get to use the deposit to make the repairs rather than having to go through a dispute procedure to try and reclaim it after spending your own hard earned on the repairs.But did you know (and I really hope that you will prove me wrong here) that you are not allowed to deduct rent arrears from the security deposit and if you use one of the other schemes they will automatically hand back the money to the tenant? (excepting amounts disputed for repairs).Katie. I like you was initially unaware of the new requirements but it appears that you are unable to serve an eviction notice on a non paying tenant unless their deposit is in an authorised scheme. Whether this is just theoretical scaremongering or born out in practice I would like to know but in my experience non-paying tenants know all their rights, you dont have to as you dont have any [:)] - best to register the deposit toute de suite IMHO.After spending several weeks repairing damage left by tenants before I could even consider trying to get new ones I too would count my blessings that I had a new tenant to move in and that the damage whilst frustrating is easily remedied, last time I had to redecorate the whole house, replace kitchen, replace all carpets, returf garden and break up and dispose of a very heavy piano left behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Framboise Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 It does of course work both ways. My son and his fiancee rented a microscopic flat, one of four in a georgian townhouse that the owner had "created" himself in his old family home that he inherited. He lived in the ground floor flat so he was on hand at all times, but you try to get him to repair anything, stop his cat widdling on the door frames to the other flats or anything............. conspicuous in his absence.My son decided to not renew the tenancy, we spent a whole day scrubbing and washing down this tiny flat till it shone like a new pin but then the landlord refused to hand back their substantial deposit because he said the place was "dirty...." No way was it dirty so we argued the toss and he eventually conceded that maybe it wasn't after all, but the worst was to come when they received some forwarded post and got a summonds for non-payment of council tax which they had diligently paid a lot of cash for every single month to the landlord as he "handled all those payments to keep it all together". Apparently...........................................The landlord had been doing highly dodgy deals on the sly. It appears that the other flatlet plus my son were in fact paying the council tax for the entire building between them, this included the landlord's flat and another one that he had not used for some months because he was decorating it ready for new tenants, but he was taking the two lots of money to pay for ALL the building! Nice huh?? When the council tax inspector visited he also discovered that according to the documents held by the council for planning etc that there was no permission for the conversion of a Listed Building to flatlets, or the extension he had built along the back of the house, the doube garage block in the garden, nor the roof windows he installed to make another studio in the loft that he had been currently working on - the council were oblivious to the whole lot!Its doubtful my son and the other tenant will get their money back of course but matey is going to court at some stage for all the illegal works done to the house, even if he got retrospective permission for a lot of them a few months ago. There are as many unscrupulous types renting places OUT, but I still think that people don't seem to respect other's property as they ought to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted June 27, 2008 Author Share Posted June 27, 2008 I would agree, Raspberry, that there are numerous landlords carrying out their affairs in both unscrupulous and illegal ways.The classic current dodges have been amongst others:1. Not taking out correct insurance where the risk is correctly stated as rented property:2. Not advising mortgage lenders that properties are Buy 2 Let:3. Not paying Schedule A property taxes:4. Failing to provide an annual Landlord's Gas Safety Certificate: (This applies to all and every gas fuelled appliance: central heating boilers; cookers and gas fires):5. Failing to have annual electrical appliance safety checks carried out and certified:etc.TV progs about how to become a millionaire through B2L have exacerbated the new genre of the private landlord who doesn't adequately work out their sums and then cheats out of desperation.One problem we all have is finding out from local councils if the rates are paid up to date when tenants leave. Same with utilities. Both Councils and utilities can hold the freehold owner liable if the tenant fails to pay. But the bloody councils and utilities refuse to tell you under Data Protection Act whether there is any balance oustanding.My advice is therefore to get the tenants to sign a disclosure mandate right at the beginning!Oustanding balances can then be deducated from deposits and remitted to the relevant creditor.One final tip: never ever let to young, unmarried couples with tiny babies. They often split up and the women stays in situ. County Courts will never give relief to the landlord (i.e. possession) if there is a young Mum and babe in residence until she has alternative suitable accommodation.The landlord can thus experience a null rent period, plus legal costs which can extend for 18 months!Advised is warned!Hope you are reading all this JK![:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastines Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Just happened to have my attention drawn to the item regarding the state in which some tenants leave properties. I have to say that from what I have noted from the photographs and written account, then I can only say that people who expect a place to remain in exactly the same condition after a year's occupancy really should not be in that business. The bathroom suite looked quite nice but from many refurbishments under my belt, I know it is just an ordinary, inexpensive, dare I say bog standard suite and it should be a quick, cheap job to replace the seat with the slight marks on it. As for the mould coming through the caulking in the shower, this usually occurs when the caulking has been applied either over existing dirt, damp or incorrectly, or perhaps is just a result of a years use in a bathroom inadequately ventilated. Whatever the cause, it can be remedied with a couple of hours effort removing the old stuff and the cost of a new tube of caulk or silicone, job done! The chips on the painwork are a result of layer upon layer of gloss paint being applied to extremely ancient wood and existing paintwork without either proper preparation and shoddy workmanship. It is easy to see in the photograph how thick and lumpy the old paint is and this type of finish invariably leads to chipping as it is only possible to apply so many layers of paint before they no longer adhere to the previous layers! I can only suggest you might be in the wrong game and also, if you are unable/unwilling to accept the genuine wear and tear which occurs when letting out properties perhaps you should try living in someone else's home for a year and you will find that these things happen. Also, I would have thought that out of a year's rent, a few minor repairs would be expected and if anything major occurred, then surely your insurance policy would cover it, that is if you can bear to part with the cost of having one. Having done B and B for many years and incurred a few damages along the way, we find it a much better policy to be pleasant when they occur and if people offer to pay for damage we graciously decline and put it down to LIFE, which I respectfully suggest you might like to try, much better for your blood pressure and your relationship with your fellow man. Enough said, happy letting, Mrs Gastines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Katie Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 [quote user="Gluestick"]Hope you are reading all this JK![:)] [/quote]Dont worry about me, I have been letting property for 18 years. I just havnt fully familiarised myself with the new deposit rules because I cant be bothered. I really hate that about myself [:@] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Teh deposit rule has existed for a long time in France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted June 27, 2008 Author Share Posted June 27, 2008 Mr Gastines.I won't bother to respond to your nonsense, other than to say what a great shame it is that you didn't bother to firstly read the thread properly before bursting into print.You aint Ron Avery's lost Bro are you by any chance?[Www] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tressy Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 [quote user="Gluestick"]Mr Gastines.I won't bother to respond to your nonsense, [/quote]Well I agree with Gastines' comments about how some of this damage has come about, particularly the chipped paintwork.. There's no way a poor paint job like that will stand up to normal use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastines Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Dear Mr Gluestick, Further to your reply, I apologise if I somehow missed the thread before ' bursting into print ' but I must firmly stand by my points appertaining to the photographs, upon which I notice you fail to comment. Secondly, regarding reading the thread, you may like to note that the reply was signed Mrs Gastines, thankyou. On another note, I find it most unfortunate that some of your other replies were unsavoury enough to describe the tenants as b------s, without knowing either the persons concerned or the full facts from both sides, so perhaps they too were over zealous when bursting into print. Did you point this out to them also? Perhaps not, as they agreed with your sentiments. Finally, regarding the comments by others about what constitutes a good tenant, I can only relate to an incident which occurred many years ago when my late mother was servicing a property for an airline pilot and ex. wing-commander, a charming gent who she worked for over a period of time. He then decided to let the property to a local GP and his family and asked my mother would she continue with the job,she agreed, just to oblige him but immediately the family moved in, they treated the property appallingly. Within 2 weeks it was grubby, items were damaged and it appeared as if they had been in it for years, they left half-full cups of tea and coffee under the beds, used personal sanitary items on the floors of the bedrooms and endless other abominations, the wife of the GP asked to borrow money from my mother and within a short time, she was forced to tender her notice due to unacceptable behaviour. The owner of the property asked them to vacate shortly afterwards and I can only suggest that you never judge by appearances and perhaps check your property at least once a month and leave the beds to cool off before installing the next lot of tenants. Yours, Mrs Gastines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted June 27, 2008 Author Share Posted June 27, 2008 [quote user="Tressy"][quote user="Gluestick"]Mr Gastines. I won't bother to respond to your nonsense, [/quote]Well I agree with Gastines' comments about how some of this damage has come about, particularly the chipped paintwork.. There's no way a poor paint job like that will stand up to normal use. [/quote]Unfortunately for your kind observation Tressy, I didn't show all the pics of the damage, only a select few.In my book I don't believe dragging heavy furniture across Edwardian turned spoke banistairs and thus ruining the paintwork is acceptable behaviour: anymore than is damaging not just the paint but most of the original mouldings from carelessness.Anymore than breaking a new toilet pan and exchanging the brand new seat for a damaged and inferior secondhand one is acceptable behaviour.Apart from which it is in breach of the lease, so we won't be paying, believe me!.Remind me not to rent either you or Mrs Gastines a car............................[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalpa Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Having looked at the loo pics, I can only say that you should thank your tenants for relieving you of the horrific faux pas that was the curly lavatory seat...[:-))] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tressy Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 [quote user="Gluestick"]...I didn't show all the pics of the damage, only a select few.[/quote]Well, I can hardly comment on pictures I haven't seen, can I? [8-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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