Who needs Uni with on the job training?

[just john]

That's the way to do it.   google. deloitte+school+leavers 

[pachapapa]

Well seems rational...they only have to be competent in add, subtract, multiply and divide.

No need for POLYmaths.[6]

[woolybanana]

When I was a young banana, loadsa chaps went into accountancy via this route and did very well too. Which was true of other some other professions, I think.

[Patf]

Sounds like an excellent idea to me.

You used to be able to train as a solicitor without a degree too - I think you were "articled" to a qualified lawyer, then took exams.

And of course nursing - I know there are degrees in nursing now, but don't know if other routes to qualification are still available.

[Iceni]

wb - I was one of those chaps though ACCA rather than ICAEW - I did not fancy being an indentured slave.

John

 

[Iceni]

[quote user="pachapapa"]

Well seems rational...they only have to be competent in add, subtract, multiply and divide.

[/quote]

For that you only need a calculator.

John

[Richard51]

[quote user="Iceni"]

wb - I was one of those chaps though ACCA rather than ICAEW - I did not fancy being an indentured slave.

John

 

[/quote]

Students have been able to train as an ACA without a degree for years.  Certainly when I started my training (with KPMG) we had one or two A level students each year - though they had to be forecast straight A's at A level.  Given that most big 4 accountancy firms prefer maths, physics and engineering graduates over accountancy graduates (as the former have far better exam results at ACA) then it shows a relevant degree isn't necessary.  What counts is intelligence and aptitude.

PS there is a little more to accountancy that adding, dividing and subtracting.  You're probably thinking of book-keeping.

Mrs R51

John: A' level students still have to sign a training contract (i.e. be articled) if they want to study for the ACA qualification.  I believe ACCA students also have to have a commit to complete a rigorous diary of experience which is submitted for approval before the qualification is granted.  In fact most ACCA students take much longer than ACA students to complete their diaries as they have the option to just take a couple of units a year - rather than pass all 5 at one sitting like the ACA students.

[woolybanana]

teachers used to be trained this way too and were much better for it

[Chancer]

So aside from being able to defer for many years the day when you actually have to work for a living , having one or more gap years and generally living the high life while mum n dad work all the hours to give you the opportunities that they didnt have............................

What exactly is the benefit of an university education?

I think that you can tell I didnt have one and was less than impressed with most of the graduates I have worked with [Www]

[Richard51]

Btw - I may have been a graduate entrant at KPMG but I left school at 16 and worked my way through uni (studying at evenings and weekends eventually getting a masters degree in physics) and then changed career to accountancy.  Some jobs do require a degree level understanding of the subject e.g: scientists, mathematicians, medicine etc.  Most of the current jobs that describe themselves as 'graduate professions' don't.   Most job descriptions today have rather a wide range of interpretation - an 'engineer' can be anything from a lathe operative to a designer of micro-electronic circuitry...  Distinctions have become, sadly, blurred.

Mrs R51

[Quillan]

[quote user="Chancer"]

So aside from being able to defer for many years the day when you actually have to work for a living , having one or more gap years and generally living the high life while mum n dad work all the hours to give you the opportunities that they didnt have............................

What exactly is the benefit of an university education?

I think that you can tell I didnt have one and was less than impressed with most of the graduates I have worked with [Www]

[/quote]

You forgot to mention that it's paid for by the tax payer some of whom have kids that will never go to university because the family is too poor (yet they still fall in to the tax paying bracket) and those that don't have kids at all.

I have no problem with people going to university but I don't want to have to pay or lend them money if they are not my kids. Universities are just too easy to get in to these days but then I guess it keeps them off the unemployment list. Mind you there are some quite good, highly educational degree courses out there like.:

David Beckham (Staffordshire University), Potter and the Age of Illusion (Durham University), 'Feel the Force: How to Train in the Jedi Way (Queens), The Robin Hood Studies Pathway (Nottingham - where else), History of Lace Knitting in Shetland (Glasgow), Puppetry (UCL - I wonder if Tony Blair and Bush went on this one), Ghostbusters (Coventry) and the list goes on and on and on although my favorite is the 'burger flipping' degree and I bet you can't possibly guess who sponsors it. [;-)]

Anyway back to the OP. Back in 2007 there was an article in The Times and I quote a very small but significant sentence from it "Recent graduates are earning no more than those who left education after A levels, a study from the Institute of Education has found.". So if you have A levels or a degree in a science when it gets down to packing shelves in Asda or wherever, as that's where the BBC said most end up in the end, your all on the same money and your 'skills' are totally useless.

[Chancer]

David Beckham (Staffordshire University), Potter and the Age of Illusion (Durham University), 'Feel the Force: How to Train in the Jedi Way (Queens), The Robin Hood Studies Pathway (Nottingham - where else), History of Lace Knitting in Shetland (Glasgow), Puppetry (UCL - I wonder if Tony Blair and Bush went on this one), Ghostbusters (Coventry) and the list goes on and on and on although my favorite is the 'burger flipping' degree and I bet you can't possibly guess who sponsors it.

Please tell me you are pulling my leg!

[Richard51]

Sadly, Chancer, no [8-)]

[Gluestick]

Slightly off topic, but continuing with Q's post (The ethos of which I completely agree), after the student fees protests, we now have the EMA protests.

See here:

Interestingly, in the local paper there was an ad this week from a local "College". (I did try scanning and posting on Photobucket but no success).

I was particularly impressed with the concept of courses on "FA Coaching" and "DJ Skills".

Just what Britain needs to drag itself out of fiscal fiasco and awesome debt.

I did check the advertiser's offered courses: and, all  apart from falling around with laughter, I was suitably outraged at much of the offered "Courses.

These mickey mouse establishments have been filling their boots for far too long at the taxpayer's expense.

What they are all about is taking kids at secondary school leaving age who are probably academically at circa 11+ (And fundamentally unemployable): and allowing them to waste another couple of years at the taxpayer's expense.

[woolybanana]

Because there are no real jobs for them to go to. The only ones are the M. Mouse ones created by the state in different forms

[NormanH]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Because there are no real jobs for them to go to. The only ones are the M. Mouse ones created by the state in different forms[/quote]

Is that their fault, the State's, or the failure of British private enterprise to create jobs? Or Mrs T and her destruction of British industry?

[Quillan]

Sadly no Chancer I am not. Have a search on Google, there is loads of them. You even get students 'bragging' on student forums about some they are on and how easy they are because nobody really knows what the content of the course should actually be, absolutely crazy. However, we shouldn't forget that there are some very serious and very useful courses out there and I am sure those that attend them work very hard.

[woolybanana]

UK inc was given the opportunity to move forward into the new technology industries after Thatcher who cleared a hell of a lot of dead wood (and some valuable stuff too) but the opportunity was squandered by Blair and Brown. This will be the judgement of History, says Banana.

[NormanH]

The failure of private enterprise to seize the opportunity has nothing to do with Blair and Brown.

What private money preferred to do was develop the Financial sector after the Conservatives de-regulated it, with the consequences we are now seeing.

[woolybanana]

Because the industrial sector had been so ruined since about 1960 because the leftist educational sector has made it a dirty word

[Richard51]

[quote user="NormanH"]The failure of private enterprise to seize the opportunity has nothing to do with Blair and Brown.

What private money preferred to do was develop the Financial sector after the Conservatives de-regulated it, with the consequences we are now seeing.

[/quote]

'What private money preferred to do was..' ship manufacturing out to the cheap labour centres in the far east to make a quick buck.  It's greed that destroyed UK inc.

Mrs R51

[Clarkkent]

[quote user="Quillan"] ... The Robin Hood Studies Pathway (Nottingham - where else), ...[/quote]

So I had a look at the University of Nottingham website, and I found this :

• Medieval History Pathway

The medieval pathway of the MA in History allows students to explore the medieval world at postgraduate level. From expressions of power in the medieval Europe and the study of rebels, outsiders and Crusaders to Anglo-Saxon political history, a wide range of themes are available for study. Students will also be introduced to the methodologies, languages and palaeographical skills (through the Research Skills for Historians module) needed to progress to medieval research. As such, the MA offers a first step for those wishing to progress to PhD research, whilst also being suitable for those with a more general interest in the history of the Middle Ages. Nottingham has a vibrant research culture in Medieval Studies and students are part of a lively international community of researchers centred upon the Institute for Medieval Research.

I suspect that "Medieval History" has been translated into "Robin Hood" as a joke. The only reference I found to the "Robin Hood Pathway" was by a journo in the Independent. Do I smell urban myth?

Mind you, there is a Robin Hood studies course at Rochester University - but that is in the USA.

[Richard51]

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/David-Beckham-Studies-Professor-Ellis-Cashmore-Defends-University-Mickey-Mouse-Degrees/Article/200808215077370

I think most of the above are modules in 'media studies' or similar degrees.  But the argument still holds.  How does a media studies graduate compare to a chemistry / maths graduate?  Not too well I would imagine.  Not, of course, that you'd find too many chemistry graduates now as they are closing most university chemistry departments due to lack of demand.  But then who wants to study something complicated like chemistry when there is the option of Beckham or Madonna on the menu??

[woolybanana]

Yes, that is part of the failure of the leftist liberal ethos

 

[NormanH]

That confuses the object of the analysis (in these cases pretty poor stuff) with the analytical skills needed, which could be applied to anything.

In other words the analysis of the methods used and interests served by any 'text'

Opponents of this sort of study always serve up these example (ironic in the actual study) because they fear the power of an enlightened understanding..

For the Brown/Blair haters among you a proper understanding of Media Studies would have made the 'spin' of Campbell and Mandelssohn so evident as to be laughable..

But that requires

 Analysis (of many sorts, linguistic, historical, contextual etc)

Comparison

Contrast

Synthesis

All the things that we almost  never see really displayed here [:)]