Social Charges - here we go again!

[woolybanana]

I have just got round to making a claim for another social charge repayment, having successfully made one several years ago.

What are people doing about this year when we seem to be paying no tax or charges but this year’s assessment will be used to fix next year’s deductions which will be higher if social charges are included?

Just a thought.

[pomme]

Just waiting until something is decided.

I'll keep the current prélèvement until then. You can always go online and change the figure at a later date if you can work out what a changed figure might be. Or ask the tax office to work out the new figure you might be charged and make the change for you.

[Un autre Gallois]

Update since last post - claimed by email in October 2018 refund of charges incorrectly levied on relevant income in years 2015, 2016 and 2017 only to be rejected by the Limoux H d'Impots. Nil caborundum, and persisted, being informed numerous times that my request is being dealt with etc. etc. and subsequently being informed just over 12 months after my first request that it is now being dealt with by the "service contentious" at Carcassonne! Having successfully claimed re-imbursement after the first de Ruyter decision I have forwarded all the relevant copies of documents then requested and asked why it took Limoux office so long to decide that they couldn't deal with it. Also, the reimbursement of deductions made on an AV policy payment are awaited. I have previously said that I believe the Limoux office is becoming increasingly intransigent because of the planned slimming down of their office - most emails I send are currently redirected automatically to Carcassonne.

[pomme]

An update. After the initial e-mail confirming the amounts of the refunds for the three years, I received a letter stating the same.

Last week I received three further letters, one for each year with a revised avis for the tax and social charges. They both mentioned there would be intérêts moratoires. So plenty of paperwork to give them something to do!

Two of payments appeared as transfers in my bank account. This week I received another letter (dated 12/11) containing a cheque. This was for a small refund of income tax. One year I'd overpaid because I'd paid in three instalments. They'd netted that off against the social charges owed. So oddly, they've paid that tax refund by cheque rather than by bank transfer. But I've still not had the social charges refund for that year or the intérêts moratoires for the three years.

I now wonder whether I'll have to wait until mid-December as they only seem to do bank transfer refunds/payments around the 15th of the month?

[isitlunchtime]

I’ve only gone and spent it all.

Anyone know anything else we can claim on?

[mint]

Aw, isitlunchtime, don't rub it in, spent it all indeed!! Some of us are STILL waiting to hear[:'(]

[suein56]

isitlunchtime wrote : I’ve only gone and spent it all.

Anyone know anything else we can claim on?

Love it (imagine smiley face here).

Think yourself lucky !

As Mint says some of us have a while to wait yet .. Morbihan has said we should (should) receive our reimbursement/s by 31/12/2019 .. I'll keep you informed as to progress.

[woolybanana]

Just out of interest, how long did it take from applying to receiving the reimbursements or an acknowledgment that you were gonna get them? Thanks.

[isitlunchtime]

Applying is neither here nor there as all was on hold until the departments got their go ahead to pay.

Early September they had that.

Letters confirming dégrèvements came out by mid sept

It then got a bit fuzzy with lots of letters and emails but all saying the same good news

Transfers 2

Cheque eventually 1 by end October

Email with interest amount x 3 end October

Paid within a week.

They aren’t like a dodgy creditor really. Slow maybe but no conspiracy to hang on to money. IMHO

[mint]

As a matter of interest, isitlunchtime, what WAS for lunch?  How many cases of champagne, jars of caviar, charolais fillet steaks, etc?

[pomme]

My claim is now completely settled. Just a couple of days short of a year since I made the claim.

I had a bank transfer earlier in the week which I assumed from the amount, was my intérêts moratoire.

Today, two further letters. One contained a cheque for the missing year; why wasn't paid by bank transfer like the refunds for other two years and why was it dated 13 Nov but only posted on 4 Dec?

The other letter contained a breakdown of the intérêts moratoire. Those calculations were based on the number of days in each of the years an amount was owed with the interest calculated at 4.8% interest for 2016 and 2017 and 2.40% for 2018 and 2019. For some reason the 2017 and 2018 only had 360 days in their interest calculations for the 2016 and 2017 claims?

[suein56]

Good for you pomme .. would you mind saying which dept you live in ?

As here in Morbihan (56) we have heard nowt .. not a dicky bird. Hopefully they will sort us out soon.

[pomme]

In the Vosges (88).

All the communications I have made have been through the tax web site messaging. They seem to go to my local tax office, given the name of the person who normally replies.

I sent a message in July after the law was approved. When nothing had happened after three months, I sent a reminder message in October saying I'd not heard anything for three months and included a request for the details of the tax conciliator.

I think that got things going. I had a message saying I would hear soon and at the end of October I received an e-mail and then a letter from the departmental tax office in Epinal saying my claim had been approved.

The letter had an address and an e-mail for the conciliator, [email protected] I assume that is a standard format so you just need to change the department number. I'd suggest an e-mail to your conciliator.

[suein56]

Thanks for your helpful reply pomme .. I will send a secure message and see what they say.

And will retain the address of the conciliator just in case of necessity.

[pomme]

It might be worth mentioning Commitment 7/Engagement 7 of the Public Service quality guidelines. Something for the conciliator? https://www.modernisation.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/fichiers-attaches/referentiel_marianne-sept-2016-web.pdf

Nous répondons de façon claire et précise à vos demandes et à vos réclamations :

▪ dans un délai maximum d’une semaine, lorsqu’elles sont adressées par voie

électronique (courriels, formulaires de contact en ligne, téléprocédures),

▪ dans un délai maximum de deux semaines, lorsqu’elles sont adressées par courrier.

[suein56]

Thank you once again .. it is v helpful to have the advice from someone whom has been there and done that already.

OH and I were too young (?) for the first round of these EU enforced rebates a few years ago so this is our first attempt at trying to wrest a CSG rebate from the fisc.

So far I have done everything by the book but Morbihan seems to be one of the depts dragging their heels ..

As I am usually quite sympathetic to the powers-that-be in these situations .. perhaps it is because there are so many expats in 56 ? that their system is overloaded.

But maybe I am wrong ?

[mint]

I also want to say thank you to you, pomme.  I will galvanise myself to send a message to the conciliator this week.  At the moment, I have been completely knocked off kilter by the unceasing rain and grey skies not to mention all the nonsense about the general election.

Sue, it's not just Morbihan, it's la Dordogne as well.  Many British expats have apparently gone home but more seem to have been coming.  In my village alone, we have gone from one family "anglaise" (mine) to 3 families; so an increase of 200%!  No wonder the fiscs can't cope......[:D]

[woolybanana]

Generally, the more UK expats there are, the more experience the fonctionnaires have of them and their needs and the more they are able to cope easily. Thus, here, they even speak quite happily in English at times, generally do not demand translations and do not seem vicious. ( touchons du bois). And they do seem happy to chatter too, like many of the folk up here.

[woolybanana]

Well done, Pomme, an example for all of us.

I was wondering if you have a proforma letter that you sent to the fisc stating your case originally that others might use, adding their own details as they go. Could be useful if you would post it here so that people can copier coller it.

[pomme]

I've no magic proforma (and I'm not even sure whether what is below wasn't just a copy of something posted here earlier by someone else - if it was, thank you!). Not too sure about the correct French, but it does seem to have been understood!

I only discovered the Public Service commitments document yesterday although I knew there was some sort of commitment from a problem I had about ten years or more ago.

This was all I sent at early October:

Ma demande concernant les prélèvements sociaux (+messagerie no. xxxxxxx)

Il est maintenant plus de xx mois depuis ma demande xxxxxxxx et votre réponse et plus de xy mois depuis que ma demande a été envoyée au service des affaires juridiques et du contentieux de la Direction départementale des Finances Publiques.

Je n'ai pas eu de communication du service des affaires juridiques et du contentieux.

1er juillet 2019: Le Conseil d'Etat applique la jurisprudence européenne de Ruyter https://www.cleiss.fr/actu/2019/1907-conseil-etat-applique-jurisprudence-europeenne-de-ruyter.html

Par sa décision n° 422780 du 1er juillet dans l'affaire Dreyer, le Conseil d'État confirme l'exonération d'impositions sociales sur les revenus du patrimoine des contribuables affiliés à un régime de sécurité sociale dans un pays membre de l'Espace économique européen (EEE) autre que la France ou en Suisse, en application de la jurisprudence de la Cour de justice de l'Union européenne (CJUE) de Ruyter.

Savez-vous quand cette demande sera résolue?

Cordialement

[woolybanana]

Thank you, Pomme, letter added to iPad notes for future use or to pass on if or as necessary.

[mint]

Had my letter today saying that we will be automatiquement remboursé.  No money in the bank account yet, mind, but the réclamation has been accepted.

There is a name and email for the person in charge of our claim if we wanted details of how the amount of reimbursement is decided.

Thank you everybody who has contributed to this thread with special thanks to isitlunchtime and pomme.

Cheers, guys![B]

[fittersmate]

Lovely late Christmas present mint! Did you write to the conciliateur? I am going to wait until after 31 December and will then contact the lady who emailed me to say it should all be sorted by that date. Ever hopeful - trying to start the New Year full of optimism.

[mint]

No, fittersmate, but writing to the conciliateur was on my list of "to do" things over Christmas and the New Year!

The letter came in answer to my last email to them in October.

Now the next thing on the list is to fill in the form online for résidence as Brexit is deffo on the cards.  I loathe doing all these "official" things but I do get a real buzz when something comes off like this claim[:D]

Yes, you be full of optimism, start the year as you mean to go on!

 

[isitlunchtime]

My advice. Don’t fill out any forms yet.

That site was set up to deal with ‘no deal’.

There will be a withdrawal deal which will possibly produce a eu response for U.K. citizens in Europe (as opposed to a purely French route).

So dashing to fill out the French form may result in having to start again. There’s no rush and I’d suggest letting the dust settle.

There will be acres of advice......

I have friends who tried to get a carte de séjour - just frustrating and unnecessary. There will be a clear way forward. The French were surprisingly quick, but a pan eu diktat , as we all know, is sometimes the most beneficial!

All the best for 2020