What happens after Independence day

[NickP]

Nobody yet has said what happens to state pensions etc. OK if your a Scottish citizen and they vote yes, and you are already a pensioner I can understand you getting your pension from the UK, but if your not yet pension age what happens; will Scotland start it's own welfare state from day one? Will the soldiers in the British Army be allowed to leave and join the Scottish Army, will Scotland have enough money to fund a new army, a new state health scheme? Have enough money to build all the infrastructure needed for a completely independent governing system? lots of questions and I haven't heard Salmond or his pip squeak deputy address any of these subjects yet. All I hear is what they demand and complain because the UK government says no you can't pick and choose. Mr wannabe  president might have got more help about the finances etc. if he had asked and not demanded. As far as I can see if the people of the UK had a vote, Scotland would get Independence straight away, and that is down to Salmond and his attitude, which I think he has deliberately cultivated very successfully to alienate the rest of the UK  Could also be a bit of a problem for Ex-pat Scots when they want their passports renewed, how long will it take for Scottish passports to be available? As I said earlier so many questions

[Rabbie]

If there is a Yes vote then negotiations will start between UK government and Scotland. As you correctly say there are many different issues to be tackled. Alex Salmond has suggested that Independence Day will be in March 2016 which only leaves 18 months for negotiations. Sounds like there are going to be some busy people.

The SNP white paper says that ex-pat scots will be able to keep their existing UK passports in parallel with their Scottish ones. It seems to me that anyone who votes Yes is taking a large leap into the unknown.

It might be better to have a second referendum once the terms have been negotiated to see if people really want the actual deal that has been agreed.

 

[Frederick]

I take it the date in March  2016 has been chosen  for historical reasons by Mr Salmond . Regardless of the ability of others given the shortage of  time  to put a workable change over in place ?   Can this be done in the time scale he wants  ?

[nomoss]

Can someone explain why Mr Salmond wants to leave one union and join/stay in (as he puts it) another?

And one which is inexorably moving towards being a single state.

It doesn't sound like independence as I understand the term.

 

 

[PaulT]

Well, I as an English man hope that the Scots do vote for independence - it will stop Scottish MPs voting at Westminster in matters that only affect England.

The arrogance of Mr Salmond is amazing - he thinks that if he says Scotland will keep the pound and be a member of the EU then he must be obeyed.

[AnOther]

[quote user="Rabbie"]The SNP white paper says that ex-pat scots will be able to keep their existing UK passports in parallel with their Scottish ones.[/quote]But it would wouldn't it !

According to other sources they would keep them until they expired and then have to apply for a Scottish one but of course being so excited and proud of their independence doubtless they will all flock to a Scottish passport at the very earliest opportunity and burn their British ones.

Don't know why he's bothered about ex-pat Scots though as they won't be voting.

Q: As non members of the EU would they need a visa to visit Europe.

[Rabbie]

[quote user="PaulT"]Well, I as an English man hope that the Scots do vote for independence - it will stop Scottish MPs voting at Westminster in matters that only affect England. The arrogance of Mr Salmond is amazing - he thinks that if he says Scotland will keep the pound and be a member of the EU then he must be obeyed.[/quote]While I do not share your enthusiasm for Scottish Independence, I sympathise with your frustration with the current system. I have never understood why they allowed Northern Irish, Scottish and Welsh MPs to vote on exclusively English issues. IMO these should be dealt with by an English Parliament. Perhaps we could have this implemented as soon as possible

[AnOther]

Ah the West Lothian Question, they've been wrestling with that perversion since 1977.

Presently there are 59 Scottish MP's in the House of Commons, 41 Labour, 11 Lib Dem, six Scottish Nationalist, and one Conservative.

[andyh4]

What happens next?

Well rUK is condemned to a permanent Conservative Government.

Apart from that, total chaos.

Questions and consequences.

1. Can Scotland retain the pound?

Yes, agreement has to be reached how decisions are made about interest rates - which will affect both economies.

Not officially. They keep it but rUK says they have no say. rUK then is able to drive, and stop, the Scottish economy - so much for independence.

No. They have to look for another currency and we see a surge in exchange booths along the border - both sides. Businesses based in both countries have to contend with exchange rate fluctuations (economic chaos).

2. Can Scotland join (stay in ) the EU?

Yes, they are then required (under current rules) to join Schengen at an early stage. Full border controls required between Scotland and rUK. They will also be required to move towards the Euro.

No, oh dear, they can apply to join the EEA and EFTA, but if both these fail, then full control of imports from Scotland into the EU will be needed - in the absence of agreement otherwise. Result - full border controls between England and Scotland.

3. What happens to businesses based in both countries?

They will be required to set up companies in both countries and will be required to provide separate accounts for calculation of taxes on profits etc..

and those are only my initial thoughts

[NickP]

Andyh4 I keep seeing the UK being described as you did, rUK, I don't understand what that stands for any chance of an explanation?

[Rabbie]

[quote user="andyh4"]What happens next? Well rUK is condemned to a permanent Conservative Government. Apart from that, total chaos. Questions and consequences. 1. Can Scotland retain the pound? Yes, agreement has to be reached how decisions are made about interest rates - which will affect both economies. Not officially. They keep it but rUK says they have no say. rUK then is able to drive, and stop, the Scottish economy - so much for independence. No. They have to look for another currency and we see a surge in exchange booths along the border - both sides. Businesses based in both countries have to contend with exchange rate fluctuations (economic chaos). 2. Can Scotland join (stay in ) the EU? Yes, they are then required (under current rules) to join Schengen at an early stage. Full border controls required between Scotland and rUK. They will also be required to move towards the Euro. No, oh dear, they can apply to join the EEA and EFTA, but if both these fail, then full control of imports from Scotland into the EU will be needed - in the absence of agreement otherwise. Result - full border controls between England and Scotland. 3. What happens to businesses based in both countries? They will be required to set up companies in both countries and will be required to provide separate accounts for calculation of taxes on profits etc.. and those are only my initial thoughts[/quote]

Reality is not as black as you paint it. Labour would have had a majority in England in 1997, 2001. and a very small one in 2005.  Remember that Scotland only has 59 MPs at Westminster and Labour only hold 41 of these.

PS rUK = residualUK or remaing UK

[Frecossais]

It's good that all these conjectures abound on the subject of  "What happens.....?" The Scots who will have the vote can weigh the consequences of Independance, rather than just voting with their hearts.

Everything is not going to be thrashed out by September, but at least the questions are being asked now. It does seem that Salmond has taken a lot for granted, however I don't believe Cameron is doing himself or either country any favours by seeming to shut the door on every expectation that Salmond has. After all, if the majority of Scots do vote for Independence, Salmond will be their representative.

[andyh4]

[quote user="Rabbie"]

[quote user="andyh4"]What happens next? Well rUK is condemned to a permanent Conservative Government. Apart from that, total chaos. Questions and consequences. 1. Can Scotland retain the pound? Yes, agreement has to be reached how decisions are made about interest rates - which will affect both economies. Not officially. They keep it but rUK says they have no say. rUK then is able to drive, and stop, the Scottish economy - so much for independence. No. They have to look for another currency and we see a surge in exchange booths along the border - both sides. Businesses based in both countries have to contend with exchange rate fluctuations (economic chaos). 2. Can Scotland join (stay in ) the EU? Yes, they are then required (under current rules) to join Schengen at an early stage. Full border controls required between Scotland and rUK. They will also be required to move towards the Euro. No, oh dear, they can apply to join the EEA and EFTA, but if both these fail, then full control of imports from Scotland into the EU will be needed - in the absence of agreement otherwise. Result - full border controls between England and Scotland. 3. What happens to businesses based in both countries? They will be required to set up companies in both countries and will be required to provide separate accounts for calculation of taxes on profits etc.. and those are only my initial thoughts[/quote]

Reality is not as black as you paint it. Labour would have had a majority in England in 1997, 2001. and a very small one in 2005.  Remember that Scotland only has 59 MPs at Westminster and Labour only hold 41 of these.

PS rUK = residualUK or remaing UK

[/quote]

So that would be 1997 = Blair: 2001 = Blair and 2005 = Blair. When do you think the Labour party will be ready to vote in another centrist leader?

I am a great believer in never say never, but in this case I will stick to my assertion that there will be a perpetual Conservative Government. If nothing else it may change some English views of it has nothing to do with me but good luck to the Scots. It has as much if not more to do with the English.

[Frederick]

Now add Gordon Brown to all the other's that the SNP have been saying do not  know what they are talking about and will have to back down

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10646056/Gordon-Brown-warns-Scots-independence-means-losing-British-state-pension.html

[Rabbie]

[quote user="andyh4"][quote user="Rabbie"]

[quote user="andyh4"]What happens next? Well rUK is condemned to a permanent Conservative Government. Apart from that, total chaos. Questions and consequences. 1. Can Scotland retain the pound? Yes, agreement has to be reached how decisions are made about interest rates - which will affect both economies. Not officially. They keep it but rUK says they have no say. rUK then is able to drive, and stop, the Scottish economy - so much for independence. No. They have to look for another currency and we see a surge in exchange booths along the border - both sides. Businesses based in both countries have to contend with exchange rate fluctuations (economic chaos). 2. Can Scotland join (stay in ) the EU? Yes, they are then required (under current rules) to join Schengen at an early stage. Full border controls required between Scotland and rUK. They will also be required to move towards the Euro. No, oh dear, they can apply to join the EEA and EFTA, but if both these fail, then full control of imports from Scotland into the EU will be needed - in the absence of agreement otherwise. Result - full border controls between England and Scotland. 3. What happens to businesses based in both countries? They will be required to set up companies in both countries and will be required to provide separate accounts for calculation of taxes on profits etc.. and those are only my initial thoughts[/quote]

Reality is not as black as you paint it. Labour would have had a majority in England in 1997, 2001. and a very small one in 2005.  Remember that Scotland only has 59 MPs at Westminster and Labour only hold 41 of these.

PS rUK = residualUK or remaing UK

[/quote] So that would be 1997 = Blair: 2001 = Blair and 2005 = Blair. When do you think the Labour party will be ready to vote in another centrist leader? I am a great believer in never say never, but in this case I will stick to my assertion that there will be a perpetual Conservative Government. If nothing else it may change some English views of it has nothing to do with me but good luck to the Scots. It has as much if not more to do with the English.[/quote]All genuine democracies seem to change their governing party from time to time. Apart from the 18 years of the Thatcher/Major era no party has had an unbroken spell in office of more than 13 years. In the Labour landslide of 1945 the Conservatives held a majority of the Scottish seats. In fact it was not until 1955 that the Conservatives were not the majority party in Scotland.

So I would challenge your prediction of a perpetual Conservative government. If there is a Scottish Yes vote then we will see who is correct assuming of course that I live that long[:)]