alittlebitfrench Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 I personally think that people should pay to see their doctor (20 pounds) and get a proper 30 min appointment.Any treatment thereafter should be free. I reckon that would work in the UK if people accepted the idea. It would take some stress and cost out of the NHS.I very much like the idea of paying to see a doctor. I don't want to see a nurse for free. Or a 5 min rushed appointment with a doctor. If I am ill I want to see a doctor for 30 mins. I am happy to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard51 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 ALBF - yes I totally agree that a fee for a GP visit would reduce many unnecessary visits. Bit like dentists but without the treatment fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard51 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/virgin-trains-richard-branson-daily-mail-censorship-nhs-privatisation-a8151366.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard51 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 How long before this sort of thing:/www.nytimes.com/2018/01/11/us/baltimore-hospital-patient-woman.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fus&action=click&contentCollection=us®ion=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=sectionfront Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 ALBF what would you do about the people who can't afford £20 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard51 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Same as with dentists - those on certain benefits don't pay. Easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alittlebitfrench Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 Iike the homeless bloke who begs down our local Lidl with a much more expensive mobile phone than me ?I would tell them to stop playing the Loto, smoking, drinking and spend the money on their health.Joking aside, people should be means tested. Trouble with that of course is the people who really can't afford lose out to the people who can afford but just play the system. And that is the problem in the UK in every part of life. So people who really can't afford, don't pay. People who play the system get banned from healthcare for life when caught.Simples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 In one of the Scandinavian countries, I think it is, people pay according to their means. Presumably this means that some might pay more than, say, £20.The homeless bloke outside Lidl with an expensive mobile phone might just have nicked it, or be earning much more than he is declaring. Or he might have paid for it honestly.On the question of privatization, the only things to consider is whether the private sector does the job as well as or better than the NHS for the same or less money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 I don't think it is as straightforward as you suppose.This is someone I know -a single mother with two children who is reasonably well-qualified and works very hard. Earns enough not to qualify for any benefits, but is nevertheless only just making ends meet. If a child is ill and needs to visit the doctor she has to take time off work thus reducing her income, if she had to pay for the doctor's visit the real cost would be much more than £20.. There might be a temptation not to go to the doctor at at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Fair comment Hoody, but she would lose income whether paying a visit fee or not.There is an arguement for expecting people to think twice before going to the doctor anyway, though this could be running risks.What worries me is the administration cost of it all, given that the State is very inefficient at same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard51 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 https://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/1786.aspx?CategoryID=74Hoddykids would not have to pay. As for missing time at work, then it depends on social circumstances and would apply no matter the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 There is a certain danger and cynicism about introducing payment to limit use but would it be seen as that? Perhaps a more palatable alternaotive would be a ring fenced graduated NHS tax, though this would not take pressure off the system. Fees may be a better bet but not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 I realise that she would be losing pay anyway. I was just making the point that even a sum as small as £20 might be enough to influence the decision as to whether to take the time off work or not. I like the idea of everyone paying in to a ring-fenced fund. It might make people more thoughtful about wasting time. In my doctor's waiting room there is always a notice showing the shocking number of missed appointments. I suppose charging people for them would not be cost efficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 As a general rule I would charge for missed appointments, stop benefits even, if missed.May cost a bit to run initially, but frankly I bet it would stop most of them and the system could wind down.There could be exceptions to this 'fine' ofcourse, ie someone ends up in hospital seriously ill, and ofcourse GP's and Hospitals are not linked up. Those with demenita etc, but apart from that, there is no good reason for not calling in advance, these days there is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 In a very real example of what Hoddy describes, a near neighbour died in France aged just 38, of heart failure brought on by severe 'flu. He left a widow, and a seven year old son and a newborn daughter. He died mainly because he couldn't afford the cost of a visit to the doctor. OK, maybe he might have died anyway, but he wouldn't go to the doctor because he couldn't afford to and had no insurance. And yes, I know he would have been reimbursed or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alittlebitfrench Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 That don't make no sense Betty. Not IMHO.He could have called SAMU or been driven to the emergency at a Hospital.Methinks in this case he just did not want to get medical help. I get that. I really really do get that. But there is a health care system in France that would have looked after him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 I know that, you know that. But the fact remains (and I know his family to this day) that he believed that by seeking medical help there would be a cost implication and he believed that he couldn't afford to seek that help. 38. Died in a house with a dirt floor and his wife and kids in the same room.There's poverty like that in France and the U.K. At present, however much shit the NHS might be in, however much criticism there might be of its standards, nobody needs to feel worried that they can't afford treatment.Another friend of mine, who isn't that old, is back in France after working most of her adult life abroad. She has worked the last umptyteen years in Bali. She came home because her kids have now left Bali, but she has severe cardiac problems and everyone was afraid for her that if she had another heart attack, she'd die. The nearest halfway competent hospital to Bali is Jakarta.So she's now working remotely for the Balinese company from France. Her French doctor insisted that she go for 3 weeks of assessment and rehab. He said that if she continued refusing or putting it off, he'd stop treating her. She has no mutuelle and has been worried about the costs she's going to incur. I left France last Saturday. She was due to go to the hospital on Monday. I got an email to say that on the Sunday she was rushed to Bordeaux after suffering 3 small heart attacks. 99% of the cause was the anxiety she was feeling about being forced to go for 3 weeks rehab and assessment. She knew it would be a good thing, she was just terrified about the cost. And she needs to keep working because she has no French social contributions history worth a damn.So, these are the sort of issues that can occur if people have to contribute directly to the cost of their care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomoss Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Someone just said on BBC news that Carillion are building Britain's first single-bed hospital.Blimey! Have they been using double beds to create more space for patients? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Not sure that Carillion will be finishing it as they are in deep, deep doodoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Carillon are the landlords in many NHS hospitals aren't they? If so, that they are in deep doodoo should not be so. And yet they are!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grecian Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Carillion may be in the doodoo, but it didn't stop Grayling giving them more contracts even after they issued a profit warning. It's going to be funny now to see how the tories wriggle out of this latest mess of their own making.https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jan/13/government-challenged-over-decision-to-give-more-work-to-carillion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Companies will be lining up to take over the contracts, don’t worry. If Carillion fail it will be because of competition being too tight. Other companies in the same market have had the same problem.Only shareholders, mainly your pension funds,will be screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh4 Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Betty wrote:Another friend of mine, who isn't that old, is back in France after working most of her adult life abroad. She has worked the last umptyteen years in Bali. She came home because her kids have now left Bali, but she has severe cardiac problems and everyone was afraid for her that if she had another heart attack, she'd die. The nearest halfway competent hospital to Bali is Jakarta. So she's now working remotely for the Balinese company from France. Her French doctor insisted that she go for 3 weeks of assessment and rehab. He said that if she continued refusing or putting it off, he'd stop treating her. She has no mutuelle and has been worried about the costs she's going to incur. I left France last Saturday. She was due to go to the hospital on Monday. I got an email to say that on the Sunday she was rushed to Bordeaux after suffering 3 small heart attacks. 99% of the cause was the anxiety she was feeling about being forced to go for 3 weeks rehab and assessment. She knew it would be a good thing, she was just terrified about the cost. And she needs to keep working because she has no French social contributions history worth a damn. and the same should probably also apply in the UK. The commonly held myth is that you just have to turn up and get free treatment from the NHS. There is not enough info in your post to make a decision but there is enough that questions should at least be raised.In fairness it often happens that people do just get free treatment but from what you have written this lady might not be due free treatment in the UK either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard51 Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Except they wont. They perhaps will be bailed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Other companies already lining up to take contracts but they may not be prepared to work on loss making jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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