vaccination...again!

[mint]

This has really caught my interest, not least because Périgueux is our administrative centre and I use the hospitals there[:-))]

[url]https://www.sudouest.fr/sante/coronavirus/nouvelle-aquitaine/des-agents-de-l-hopital-de-perigueux-denoncent-les-effets-du-vaccin-astrazeneca-1335072.php[/url]

And yet, the UK has vaccinated millions with this vaccine and I have not heard any stories like the one above?

[NormanH]

On last night's C Dans l'air it was mentioned by that it was necessary to avoid vaccinating a whole medical team at once since quite frequently there were effects such as a high fever which meant that people couldn't work.

One of the  4 contributors was the head of  service at the Hopital St Antoine in Paris who confirmed that he had someone 'cloué au lit' after the injection.

[mint]

Thank you for that, Norman.  I was thinking of asking for the vaccine, in fact, making out a case at least for OH to get his on account of his age and our total inability to book a RV even tens of kilometres from home.  In fact, we have tried 4 of the 6 centres in the Dordogne, the other 2 being completely impossible to go to under our own steam.

Now, I am going to wait until the situation becomes clearer.

[idun]

Is this because the french are a different morphology or whatever you would call it?

About 35 odd years ago we were back in the UK on holiday and one of my kids caught a cold, he was not well and as I was trying to get hold of children's aspirin, the government announced that they were being banned for children and that they should take paracetamol.

When I got home I spoke to my MG and he said that there had not been any particular problems in France and that it was safe for my children to take......... at which point, I pointed out that they were not french, and no thanks.

Is this the problem.

As I have pointed out. I have know a couple of people who were zonked out for about 14 hours, no fever, just fatigue hat first evening and after this big sleep were perfectly fine. And others had arm ache for a day or so. As time goes by I know of more and more people who have been vaccinated and apart from maybe a tiny red, mosquito bite looking mark for a few days, no side effects.

IF this was a real problem in the UK and there have been over 15 million vaccinated AND a lot with astra zeneca, surely it would on the news???

So are the french suffering from a mild form of mass hysteria? It is either that or that french people are 'different' from those of us in the UK.  As with  over 50% and more with problems mentioned, if that was actually the case folk'd be dropping like flies over here.

[NormanH]

There might also be different batches of vaccine in different places....

[Gardengirl]

That is so, Norman.

Both episodes of this that I’ve heard of happened in France since there has been controversy about it in mainland Europe. No such events have occurred in the UK despite many thousands of medical staff having been vaccinated with the OAZ vaccine.

The other episode I remember reading about was medical staff, young and fit, in a northern area of France who had such problems. It has been described as a ’nocebo’ effect.

This is said to occur when negative expectations of the patient regarding a treatment cause the treatment to have a more negative effect than it otherwise would have.

There are also such things as ‘hospital viruses’, which a nurse friend of mine has mentioned occasionally, when something rips through a team on a ward, but few others get it.

It’s also possible that all those who have had the problem could have been in contact with people with Covid-19 or might even have had it in a mild form themselves. In which case it could be happening because they had high levels of antibodies.

I had the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine 5 weeks ago, as did my husband and some neighbours. All of our neighbours and many friends have had the OAZ and friends in different areas had the Pfizer vaccine.

Amongst us all there were various side effects such as sore arms, aching arms, stiff arms, redness around the vaccination sites, headaches, raised temperatures and fatigue.

Nobody had all of those, some had none at all and more women had them than men. Several of us said effects were very similar to having the flu vaccine. The effects lasted from overnight to a few days.

I’ve just realised that I don’t know what the equivalent system to the yellow card scheme in the UK for notifying side effects from drugs, vaccines etc. Can I assume it’s simply ‘carte jaune’?

Some of you might be interested in this article about vaccine side effects in a US paper - unfortunately it carries some adverts:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/12/what-expect-when-you-get-covid-19-vaccine/617428/

Another article about having side effects following the second vaccination:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/02/second-vaccine-side-effects/617892/

[NormanH]

I  was extremely tired for a couple of days after the first Pfizer one but nothing worse.

I was given contact details for notifying any more serious effects which is probably the equivalent of the scheme you mention.

[idun]

I had not heard of the nocebo effect, what a shame if it is medical staff not trusting these vaccines.

[mint]

Well you have all had personal experience and can speak about that.

As for me, give me the side effects, the headaches, the aches, etc.  I'd pay to have those but I don't think I'll be experiencing this nocebo effect for a long time yet[:D]

[nomoss]

[quote user="NormanH"]There might also be different batches of vaccine in different places....

[/quote]

Or errors made in its transport or handling.

[NormanH]

Two contrasting stories:

(for mint)" In south-west France, a hospital in Périgueux asked in an open letter

that the AstraZeneca vaccine be replaced with shots from Moderna and

BioNTech/Pfizer after 50% to 70% of injected staff experienced

side-effects."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/19/one-pfizerbiontech-shot-gives-85-covid-protection-study

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/19/german-politicians-counter-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-scepticism-with-show-of-support

[NormanH]

Sorry double post

[NormanH]

and here

[mint]

And here comes Spoutnik V.......or maybe NOT?

[url]https://www.sudouest.fr/sante/coronavirus/spoutnik-v-pourquoi-l-ue-n-a-pas-encore-approuve-le-vaccin-russe-1377294.php[/url]

[mint]

And more vaccine news......well, you don't have to read it if you are not interested!

[url]https://www.sudouest.fr/sante/coronavirus/vaccin/vaccin-astrazeneca-vigilance-suite-a-des-syndromes-pseudo-grippaux-d-une-severite-non-anticipee-1377452.php[/url]

[alittlebitfrench]

So basically. Brexit UK vaccine is crap.

Russia (nearly killed half of Salisbury) vaccine is good.

I am not taking the Russian vaccine on principle. Also the China one.

F*** O** Macron.

[mint]

ALBF, are you not being a bit irrational? 

The EMA will be looking at all these different vaccines with scientific criteria and epidemiological data at the forefront.

Come, you can't be serious?  As a famous former tennis player might say......

What does it matter where the vaccine comes from, as long as it works and has relatively mild side effects?

Of course, it's still up to the individual in the end to decide.  Even the best scientific advisor can be wrong after all.  And there have been many failures in the past about drugs being considered safe when they then produce devastating side effects at a later date.  Thalidomide, at the top of my head....

[alittlebitfrench]

I grew up 12 miles from Salisbury. It was my local city. It is where I learnt to drive. I LOVE Salisbury.

On principle, it is no for the Russian vaccine for me. If others want to take it, be my guest.

Would anybody take it in Salisbury ? I bet not.

I hope not.

The hysteria in France surrounding the Astra vaccine is Macron's fault. He made it political. He opened his mouth by saying it did not work that good against scientific evidence. Because it was a UK vaccine. His little dig at Brexit.

He really needs to learn to keep it closed.

[nomoss]

[quote user="mint"]

And more vaccine news......well, you don't have to read it if you are not interested!

[url]https://www.sudouest.fr/sante/coronavirus/vaccin/vaccin-astrazeneca-vigilance-suite-a-des-syndromes-pseudo-grippaux-d-une-severite-non-anticipee-1377452.php[/url]

[/quote]

I've had flu-like symptoms since I had the Pfizer vaccine.

Mind you, I had them before the vaccination.

I also had them before my flu vaccination.

In fact, I've had them most of the winter.

[Judith-aka-Judith]

Since there are still no vaccine appointments, never mind the vaccine, maybe which is best is a mere irrelevance.  The hopsital where all seemed to have the same apres vaccine symptons sounds more like the case of being altogther  - cannot remember the scientific name for it, but research found that when girls in a school started off with non similar period starts, they eventually as the year continued began to start all together.  Sounds much like that here, or the usual hospital infection going around .. which is mor prevalent than they want you to believe.

[mint]

Nomoss, has your weather been cold and damp for weeks on end?  Could the conditions have had an effect on your symptoms?

For years and years, decades in fact, I'd be ill every winter from November onwards.  But that seems to have improved a bit.  Have you had anything like a chest xray, for example.  Is that, as a first investigation, worth asking for?

It doesn't sound "normal" to me; look after yourself and maybe go see your MT.

Judith, I did find it strange about so many having adverse effects and I posted about it on another thread.

Speaking for myself, I'd happily have it but alas no one has given me that choice.

[mint]

Norman, in case you think I have ignored your post, I want to tell you that I did read both your links.

Like many, I am thinking about why there should be such a difference between continentals generally and British people, millions of whom have had the vaccine.

However, I do bear in mind that the vaccine has been given to mostly "elderly" people in the UK (yes, I know that some elderly people on the forum have had it without any ill effects) and the younger age groups are only now getting it.

The EU, OTOH, has started by giving it to younger people almost exclusively.

My point is that we have been told that younger people tend to have stronger immune systems than older folk;  so maybe their younger bodies are reacting more vigorously and making more antibodies in a shorter space of time than older, frail and perhaps even failing bodies and immune systems.

Any credence to my thoughts? 

[anotherbanana]

France has been giving it to the 75s and over plus those in homes and certain high risk groups and medical workers.

[nomoss]

[quote user="mint"]

Nomoss, has your weather been cold and damp for weeks on end?  Could the conditions have had an effect on your symptoms?

.......................................... [/quote]

Thanks for your concern, but, although it is true, and I usually have these symptoms in the cold weather, it was intended as something of a joke.

hence the "headline", followed by the small print.

[mint]

[quote user="anotherbanana"]France has been giving it to the 75s and over plus those in homes and certain high risk groups and medical workers.[/quote]

Banana, I thought we were talking about the Astra Zenecca one causing people to be ill.  And that one certainly hasn't been given to older people.

At the moment, in France, it's only given to health professionals 50 years to 64 years old with co-morbidities.  In fact, in Périgueux, in the Francheville, l'hôpital privé, a centre specially for health professionals will be open for 5 days, from 22 fev for them to receive the AZ vaccine.

The open letter mentioned in Norman's link is from health professionals, asking to have the Pfizer or Moderna one instead of the AZ.