La Reunion - tidal waves

[Iceni]

It seems the tidal waves reached as far as La Reunion - which is near Mauritius. There was damage but thankfully so far no deaths. If any of you have been lucky enough to have visited this wonderful island you will know why it is nicknamed 'Treasure Island'. John and I were there at this time of year in 1998/1999. I little bit of France in the Indian ocean.

This seems to be a terrible disaster which occurs with no warning and with such devastation I can only pray for those who are currently in such areas. I can understand now why the scientist who discovered the Grand Canarian 'mountain slippage' predicts total devastation of the East Cost of the USA when the mountainside does finally slip into the sea, up to now it had just seemed speculation (the coast of Europe would also be affected but not to such an extent). He predicts a max of 1000 years but did state that it could happen tomorrow. There was also a large earthquake off the coast of NZ a couple of weeks ago, then the largest so far this year.

I notice that events such as this are now called 'Acts of Nature' - the adage is true, Nature is 'red in tooth and claw'.

[SaligoBay]

There was damage but thankfully so far no deaths.

Phew, that's all right then.   I was just starting to get a bit distressed about the 6000 (so far) deaths elsewhere, but as long as they weren't on French colonies. 

North-East man lost at sea?   One of my favourite urban myths.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_and_Journal_(Scotland)

Whatever we do or don't do in the way of recycling, fighting global warming etc, the earth remains bigger and stronger than all of us and our technology put together.      

There but for the grace of Gdo.     

 

[Iceni]

[quote]There was damage but thankfully so far no deaths. Phew, that's all right then. I was just starting to get a bit distressed about the 6000 (so far) deaths elsewhere, but as long as they weren't on...[/quote]

I was not being flippant in any way, just adding the French 'connection' to this horrific disaster. This is a French board after all.

I really could have done without your response which I think was flippant and not very sensible. Perhaps unlike me you have not been working today so have been sampling the 'falling over water'.

Nothing to do with Gdo, all to do with nature and it also has nothing to do with our ruining our planet, this is bigger and nastier than that.

[SaligoBay]

Sorry Di.   But it was a rather tenuous French connection in the face of such a huge disaster.   

I hope you're not complaining about having a job?   Or suggesting that only people who work have the capacity to be affected by life's tragedies?

all to do with nature and it also has nothing to do with our ruining our planet, this is bigger and nastier than that.

Doh, that's what I said!!! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

p.s. Gdo doesn't exist.

 

 

[Dick Smith]

And getting worse (or at least more revealed) by the hour - now up to 12,000 dead, some as far afield as Africa.

[Iceni]

[quote]Sorry Di. But it was a rather tenuous French connection in the face of such a huge disaster. I hope you're not complaining about having a job? Or suggesting that only people who work have th...[/quote]

Don't be daft SB, of course I was not suggesting that only those in work have the capacity to be affected by things like this, I would never dream of it. Your posts show you understand the human condition only too well.

You may say that Gdo does not exist, but the belief in a 'higher authority' has saved many addicted people, so perhaps just the belief in an existence can be a good thing, even though we can never prove anything either way.

As I mentioned, I have had the news feeds on most of the day and I don't think at any point I have heard this disaster referred to as an act of Gdo but always as a 'natural disaster'. I just hope that they manage to get help and supplies to the areas quickly but over such a huge area I can foresee problems.

[SaligoBay]

44 000 is the latest estimate.  Unthinkable, unimaginable.  And what can we do?   Most of us can do nothing at all right now.

Douglas Adams said in an interview in the Salmon of Doubt that seeing this sort of thing on TV actually helps no-one.  Our natural human instinct is to help those in need (I suppose there's an adrenalin rush to deal with emergencies), you WANT to reach out and put your arms round someone, you want to help them in any way possible, NOW.   And you can't.

The other side of this coin is that in these days of international communication, at least people who CAN help can get there to do what they can.  It may not seem like much in the face of such a huge disaster, but in fact it's a whole lot.  Red Cross, doctors, soldiers, water-carriers, grave-diggers, they're choosing to do this, and that's really, well, it's all just so overwhelming that it makes me cry.

I've made my pathetic donation to the Red Cross.  It may be too late for this time round, but there'll be another time.

Bye for now.  And still no drink!    

[Teamedup]

Frankly I am sick of the reporting. I have no idea what on earth these journalists thinks it serves to dish up 24hour reports, constantly repetitive. Sort of numbs me in the end. I have stopped watching the news, full stop and will listen to the odd bit of news on Radio 4.

And the only people I give to are the Red Cross too. I have rather more faith in them than some of the other agencies.

Also, one has to check, but if one pays tax in France, then under some circumstances, not sure if this is one, then one can claim back half of the amount given on one's tax form. So if I was going to give 50 euros and the government would give me half of that back, then I put in 100 euros. I know I have to wait to feel the benefit, but heck, it is a way of getting the govt to put in money too. The Red Cross have always given me receipts for the tax man, when I have done this.

 

 

[0BRIAN WOODHEADI,m here in franceddMMyyyy0Falseen-USI,m here in franceTrue]

Like TU this morning I was listening to radio4(today prog)one guy they had on speaking about the tidal wave was saying that unlike the last one, there were to many people living near the coast due to the huge population growth during the last 40/50years in that part of asia,and also the fact that an early warning system had been rejected by the governments of the countries affected.

[SaligoBay]

I confess to only keeping up with the headlines online.  Repeated TV footage of wailing parents searching for dead children is not fun, nor do I want to hear or read online the many eye-witness reports, although I appreciate that they have a need to talk about it.  I agree with Douglas Adams, ça ne sert à rien.

The early-warning system is interesting.  If you look at where they are, hey ho, they're not in the really poor countries, what a surprise.   Whenever you hear anything about Bangladesh, for example, it's a disaster, another overloaded ferry sinking, or more floods, or whatever. 

Sorry, nothing wise to say, because there's nothing wise to be said.  I couldn't even read the Grauniad article about how Christians explained earthquakes, because I know I'd only have thrown the computer out the window. 

Gdo grant me Zen.          

 

 

 

[Richard-R]

Always seems weird to me to watch on T.V. the devestaion in an area that you've visited. Happened to me more than once, plus missed a couple of IRA bombs in London by an hour of so. I would give Japan a miss after June next year if i was you, I will be there for 4 weeks and coiung home on the 1st July. You been warned.

Early warnig systems would be of little real use to the people in the affected areas ( apart form tourists). The money is better spent on hosipals and small holders aid. This saves more lives in the long run.

[Quillan]

68,000 is the figure this morning. I see Dicky Attenborough has lost family members. Our daughter is there but OK as she has managed to phone out.

I watched a documentary, last year perhaps, about these waves but it was about the effect on the US (it would be) if they originated somewhere else, China perhaps, I can't remember, waves of 100M were predicted once they reached the US coastline. The scientists said they had a method of predicting them and giving some warning but there were no funds available as people did not take their results seriously, perhaps they will now.

The first pictures of physical help departing on the BBC this morning showed French rescue workers, firemen and alike, departing.

Having worked for a leading world wide organisation based in Switzerland I and many others who did at that time work for them and then left have stopped giving them money after seeing the way they waste it, you would be lucky if 1p in every pound gets to the people it's meant to. I'd rather spend my money sending a couple of cases of bottled water and tinned food through the post.

As SB said it's an act of nature, it happens, it's sad, it's devastating for those who's lives it's touched. I feel very sorry for them.

[Clarkkent]

Having worked for a leading world wide organisation based in Switzerland I and many others who did at that time work for them and then left have stopped giving them money after seeing the way they waste it, you would be lucky if 1p in every pound gets to the people it's meant to. I'd rather spend my money sending a couple of cases of bottled water and tinned food through the post.

This chestnut comes up time and time again. I cannot comment about the International Red Cross but I have just looked at the Oxfam site. For 2002/3 their fundraising income was £124.3m and their charitable expenditure was £115.1m. In other words, out of every £1 collected 92p went to its charitable objectives. Urban myths are not usually a good basis for action, and you can bet that stuff sent through the post would never reach the people who needed it.

The people in the devasted places need our help - the major aid organisations are best placed to deliver it.

 

Just an afterword, Iceni, in view of the scale of this disaster, your comment about Reunion did seem rather parochial and I can understand why SB responded in the way she did.

 

[Russethouse]

There is a list of organisations requesting donations here :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4131881.stm

[Dick Smith]

Quillan – I’m not sure where your ‘penny in the pound’ is coming from, partly as you don't identify the organisation. Oxfam quote 79% in aid, 17% in generating further income and 4% in administration. Bear in mind that a lot of the work Oxfam does is in providing advice and education – for example guidelines in maintaining sanitary conditions in circumstances like those in South Asia at the moment.

World Vision is 85%, 14% and 1%.

Is your Swiss organisation the International Red Cross? And can you back up your 1% claim. I ask, because it is important. I don't think what you have said is true - it certainly isn't true of aid-giving organisations like Oxfam. It's important because untruths like that persuade people not to give (or give them an excuse not to) and people in serious trouble die because of it when the aid doesn't come. So can you provide the name of the organisation and the evidence that only 1% of donations gets to the people who need it?

[Richard-R]

Having spent rather a lot of time in Africa and knowing a good few people who work for NGO's i can tell you thay thet factor in a mininum of 25% shrinkage on all out bound aid. Whilst living in Mombasa some people from a NGO had to fly down to Dar es Saleem to buy back grain that had been taken has TAX by some port inspectors and sold on the black market. About 100+ tonnes of it. Most aid to the third world attacts some kind of import tax, even if it amonts to the $700 working visa charged by a couple of cental African Countries to aid workers. People should still give BUT goverments need to take a VERY hard line on people in power in these countries taking money out to bank. Mrs Moi on her old trips to Belguim with a case full of diamonds spring to mind.

[0BRIAN WOODHEADI,m here in franceddMMyyyy0Falseen-USI,m here in franceTrue]

There is another post posted under charities and maybe that is a better place than this post,after all the nature of this post is"la Reunion-tidal waves"That said the 92p in the pound goes on what?front line aid when most or the people who do charity work do it for very little if they do it for anything,talking about on the ground in the places where things have "happened".For the most part the countries where aid is most needed are run by corrupt governments and money is not often the main problem,just where the money has gone is,and a 1p in the pound may just do some good,contraception would do more good but that than brings up conflict with the catholic charities who want more people on an already over crowded world with their objection to contraception.

[Dick Smith]

We aren't just talking about food aid, Richard. This will be water purification equipment and chemicals, basic shelter and advisers, and it won't (mostly) be to Africa. Some bad cases like Mrs Moi don't make donating a bad idea.

I agree with you that people in the more fortunate regions just need to get their hands in their pockets and not make excuses.

[0BRIAN WOODHEADI,m here in franceddMMyyyy0Falseen-USI,m here in franceTrue]

For sure on a human level the people affected need help,it,s not the case that the countries need money just need the money going where it is meant,like Q says sending a food parcel would do more good than sending money,what do a few tents and blankets etc cost

[Quillan]

Dick,

My criticism is that the organisation I worked for, for just over year, wasted so much money that was given by the public to go to help others. Two examples come to mind which I saw for myself.

The first was to standardise their computer system, install servers and a special software package to deal with donations, a email system and the ability to share documents and printers. A network was installed along with new printers, desktop PC's, laptops, servers and network infrastructure. A lot of research was carried out, tenders raised and posted, the contract to supply was awarded to the leading computer and server manufacturer (at the time), the total cost was just short of £1M plus the cost of actual rollout, setting up a proper IT department with help desk etc.

Personnel (as it was called at the time, later changed to HR) then decided they required a HR system. The then head of HR wanted a particular system. It would not run on the existing servers and required PC's that the HR software company 'approved' which were of course not the same as what had just been bought. This HR software not only carried out basic HR functions but allowed staff to carry out their appraisals online, timekeeping, holiday booking and more hence new PC’s all round. The result was that the original system was scrapped and a completely new system installed, all in the same 12 months, the cost was over £1M this time. All this was pushed through without tender (which some thought broke the rules) because the then Director and then head of HR were best mates and the IT department were kept out of the loop and just told to install it with no consultation. The head of HR was forced to leave when it became public knowledge (within the organisation, never leaked to the press) that the head of HR's husband was director of the company that sold the HR software and as a hardware supplier as well had lost out in the first tender. And yes I to did well as my team and I had our contracts extended to oversee the installation and train the helpdesk team to support the new network.

The other case involved a visit by a member of the royal family whilst I was there. The marketing department thought it would be a good idea to hold an auction for the pen used to sign the visitor’s book. A suitable high profile venue was found in London and loads of 'A' list people were invited to a grand 'bash'. They auctioned the pen and got £750 or there about. Apparently the whole idea was to raise people’s awareness of this particular organisation and not really about how much they made but with all the famous people going got them on TV, a common marketing exercise apparently.

I have worked for Amnesty International, WWF, Oxfam and a few others in my time but never came across this sort of thing with them so it would not be right to label them all the same. All this happened about 12 years ago but it has stuck in my memory ever since. Perhaps things have changed but who really knows?

[Dick Smith]

Chris - I'm afraid that what you have here as supporting material doesn't match your claim of 1% getting through as aid, and certainly doesn't support the general tenor that giving financial aid is a waste, as you acknowledge in your remarks about Oxfam, AI and WWF.

[Richard-R]

[quote]We aren't just talking about food aid, Richard. This will be water purification equipment and chemicals, basic shelter and advisers, and it won't (mostly) be to Africa. Some bad cases like Mrs Moi don...[/quote]

Aid to Africa or Asia does not differ a great deal. Corruption is Corruption. It angers me to know that what ever i give, someone in the local Goverment will skim a little of the top to feather his/hers own nest.

[SaligoBay]

You're absolutely right, Rdkr.   (Anyone who wants an easy introduction to the problem of aid in Africa, read "The Constant Gardener" by John le Carré, or even Tony Hawk's "One Hit Wonderland".)

But given the reality of the situation, isn't it better that those in need get something rather than nothing?   It's not ideal, but if you give 50 euros and you know that 10 is going to provide clean water and something to stop 20 babies dying of diarrhoea, isn't that a Good Thing?   I know I know I know, the other 40 euros might be going to some dictator, but if you don't give, he stays rich anyway and no lives get saved.  You know, like part of your French taxes go to help keep Monsieur Chirac in the style to which he has been accustomed, you just have to accept it.

As a moral conundrum it's not easy.  Those people in Asia need help NOW, and if even a tiny percentage of your 50 euros goes to pay someone to dispose of decaying bodies and reduce the risk of typhoid and cholera, you could still save a whole lot of lives.  By the time a bottle of water reaches them in the post it'll be too late.

It's all just too much.  In spite of the death toll, they're still bombing the sh*t out of each other in Iraq, and probably lots of other places too.

But there, we're all different, which is why the world is the way it is.        

  

[Dave&Olive]

but where do you stop :-

           just give £3 a month will keep a family of 4 with fresh water just £4 a month will help to stop child cruelty just £5 a month with help combat hiv just £10 a month will stop cruelty to animals just just just stoooooooooooop

[Russethouse]

Dave&Olive, you stop when you are comfortable with yourself.

On a day to day basis many people here probably donate money or time to one charity or another, but this is an extra ordinary event, a small donation from many people soon adds up and we hope translates into worthwhile aid for the many who have lost literally everything.