OAP's who sell on the markets

[Alexis]

Goodness, are you still allowed to call people of a certain age OAP's?  Anyway, on the telly news the other day they were in Rennes market discussing the new law which states that to sell on the market you have to have a declaration d'impot.  A lot of these 'older than most' people didn't have one ane, therefore, not allowed on the market.

We don't have these retired people on our market here but there are a lot at Avranches.  I stagger out with flowers and fruit after their hard sell.  I will miss them if they have to stop trading.  They make the market.

[Teamedup]

Doesn't matter how old they are, they still have to do a declaration des impots in France. There has never been PAYE here, and for goodness sake they must know the system.

And to be selling, these troisieme age people surely cannot be mentally incompetant, in fact sounds like they are on the ball..... let 'em do like the rest of us and get their declarations done.

[Catalpa]

We've assumed that in many cases, they probably also have farms or some sort of registered business already and if they *do* declare the income, it probably gets rolled in with that. Or maybe not.

[Teamedup]

And, what has that got to do with it. My Dad, when he retired at 60, opened a market stall in the UK, which he ran for several years. He too had to declare his income from it, he loved doing it and wasn't bothered about that, the fisc don't take every penny one earns in either country.

[Alexis]

As far as I could gather, these were retired people on a pension who were, horror of horror, working on the black.

For one thing, if they had been agricultural workers in the working life, the retirement is about 300€ a month.

How much do you think these folk can make in a morning selling flowers and a bit of soft fruit?  Good luck to them.  The state should make sure that their elderly don't need to work so they can be confortable.  Bloody hell, they have worked all their lives, not to forget fighting wars.

I would give them EVERYTHING.

I think I will start a new political party.......

[Patf]

Alexis - I agree that this seems so unfair. Our market also has a large number of retirees selling their produce, who I would miss if they had to leave. There was a short article about it in our local paper some of which I couldn't understand, but it said the basic pension for agriculteurs, artisans and commercants is 533,51 euro per month after 40 yrs contributions. For fonctionnaires 944,87 epm after 25 yrs . Perhaps the basic rate has been increased. Whereas in UK the basic pension is ? £300pm for one person, £520 for a couple. Pat.

[Hoddy]

I'm not sure where you get your UK figures from. My UK state pension is £365 per month not per week, after having worked for 40 years.

I suspect that many will be surprised at the inadequacy of the UK state pension when they get it.

Hoddy.

[Pucette<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Pucette<FONT><P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt">"Qui ne connaît pas la campagne lhiver, ne connaît pas la campagne et ne connaît pas]

My rough and befuddled understanding of the legislation is as follows:

to sell produce you must be registered with the msa

to receive a full msa pension you must not work

a farmer who is retired but didn't pay enough contributions to receive a full pension can farm a certain amount (I think here in 24 up to 4ha) and sell the produce; his contributions will be next-to-nil and he will receive the pension to which he is entitled - so if he's at the market he won't have a problem

The msa contributions were notoriously low; euro for franc farmers are getting more out than civil servants (round here many farmers struggled to pay in what they did; civil servants managed relatively comfortably).

 

[Hoddy]

I must apologise to PatF for not reading their post more carefully. It did say per month and not per week as I said.

I find the idea of a market stall quite appealing although I suspect that it's much harder work than it looks.

Hoddy

[Alexis]

There was a programme on a bit ago about pensions here.  Did you know that you got more if you had loads of children?  I suppose you made more conributors!  The retired teacher on got 2000FF and he had nine kidlets.  I thought that was a lot of money.  The retired aricultural worker got a pittance.  A big problem here, being nearly all agriculture, is that the wife worked with her husband but was never cotisised (?) and so discovered she received nothing at retirement.

I actually thought the UK pensioners were paid less than the French ones.

You will have to take along a helper Hoddy to grapple the person to the ground whilst you force them to buy your haricot vert.....  That seems to be the trick!  I will be going to Avranches market on Saturday.  Surely no flowers this time of year????

[Patf]

Hoddy - apology accepted. I have re-checked the figures and the basic pension in UK for a single person, having paid the maximum number of years, is £79.60 per week, which works out at about £352/ 542 euro per month. There is a supplement available to top this up. So it looks as if British pensioners are still better off than most of those in France. Though both figures are pathetic. Pat.

[Piprob]

Can we have some censorship please? Or at least can we have a specially quiet corner of the site reserved for these postings.

I became very miserable when I realised how avidly I was reading the contributions. It really can't be true. It must not be true. I am not approaching OA Peedom. I am not already married to an OAP. And I don't care what collective noun is applied.

I used to be normal. At least I think I was normal. But now when I see a newspaper of any stripe, my eyes are out of control. Like an arm to a life-raft, they cling to any article about savings, investments, bank charges, pensions, and diseases, and there is nothing I can do to stop them.

Soon I'll be scanning the obituary columns if I'm not very careful. HELP! 

[opas]

Hey Rob,chill out man or you`ll give yourself a heart attack with the mithering! Just think , in another few months  you too can stroll around aimlessly, sit on a bench and watch the world go by, have heated arguaments about nothing with the local men at La Place and perhaps even take up boules to pass the time ,oh and don`t forget to visit le bar at 09.30 for a coffee and chaser!!  

[Piprob]

Hey, Opas! Enough already! That's not what I call reassurance. Its all too easy for some guys, oozing sun tan oil. I'm getting some warning signals here. Some people indoors say they have had it with my 'aimless'. If I wasn't so aimless I'd have written the manual. And 'nothing' arguments. You're talking to an expert. She's taught me all I know. It's taken a long time. I'm a very slow learner. But we're thinking about crisis time here. I desire a new lease of life. And I'm going to get one in France even if it kills me.

Listen, when I first tuned into this site, I knew I had discovered my soul brothers and sisters. Too strong? OK, a decent eccentric's club, mould breakers. They've found the Holy Grail I thought - and I've been looking in the wrong place. It's in France.

I knew many of you were very very old. I didn't mind. You hid it well. They deserve it, I thought. So do we. And I saw you had magic - old farts with a life! I did not believe for one minute any of you would play dirty by faking it.

So, lets ditch the stuff about inconvenient realities, and get on with the strength of character stories, triumphs of hope over experience, winning through. Having fun even though someone just cut off all my bits and pieces! See what I mean?

Phew! I needed that.

 

[opas]

Hope you are not refereing to me in your `old farts with a life` statement !  Mrs O.

[Patf]

Cheer up Rob - old age doesn't start until 80 or so these days. I don't like the term OAP either. What about retirees, retraites, senior citizens, silver surfers, third agers . Any more suggestions? ( not "old farts"). By the way the same familiar faces were selling in the market today so no effect from the new law yet. Pat.

[Teamedup]

If you live here it is troisieme age. Always makes me think that it's something from the lord of the rings......

Judging by most of the blokes round here, one needs an old beret or cap, some manky old bleu's and worky boots and a gitane hung out of the corner of one's mouth and a pastis glass in one hand to qualify. And the ladies, well, glamour isn't in it, as has been said before, the 'red' dyed hair and  a bonny floral tablier............. rumour has it that the 'bottle(s)' are kept well out of sight as ladies aren't supposed to drink too much.

Just so much to look forward to really.

[Will]

If you are getting close to or have exceeded old fart age, but still want a life, free from yoof culture, may I recommend The Oldie magazine? Mine arrived this morning along with Living France. So plenty to read over the next few days.

TU, the same dress codes apply in Normandy

Seriously I think Pucette's right. I always thought farmers, or maybe only those with a GAEC, had special provisions allowing working on a small scale after 60 to supplement their retirement funds because 99.9% of them never managed to build up the full pension entitlement.

[Pucette<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Pucette<FONT><P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt">"Qui ne connaît pas la campagne lhiver, ne connaît pas la campagne et ne connaît pas]

A GAEC is a form of partnership and is not in itself a condition of being able to continue farming and receive a pension.

[Piprob]

I'm definitely warming to the Teamedup way of looking at this, and Mrs O., - there's no way I meant to apply the term O*d F*rt in anyone in the particular, and certainly not anyone living in close to Perpignan. Its more of a concept sort of thing. (Please don't make me dig myself any deeper) And I'm also buying into Will's The Oldie mag, which I hope is suitably illustrated. It'll be good reading on one of the three new WCs.

[0BRIAN WOODHEADI,m here in franceddMMyyyy0Falseen-USI,m here in franceTrue]

Pippy,take heart old chap some people love the life they live and want to keep on living the same way,but if the course of true love is to run smooth it will if not not there is one person who will know what will be.Dreams are for dreamers,living the dream is for the undead,life is for the living.

[Will]

Pucette, you've got me wondering now if my memory is playing tricks. I'm sure I remember something about a retired farmer who was still working in a small way saying that he'd been classed as a GAEC when farming full time, and as a result could call himself by another, very similar, set of initials and continue working, legally, on a smaller scale in his retirement? Maybe I imagined it, the old fart syndrome again, or maybe one of the many French farmers' tall stories?

[opas]

Piprob,As well as reading the mag that Will recommended, I am assured by Mr O that there are a lot of interesting ones on the top shelf of the presse....I wouldn`t know ,can`t see that far, but he assures me they are on his eye level!

[Piprob]

Mrs O, we're on the same wavelength. I think I'll bring a pair of steps with me.