C P E

[opas]

Just heard on the news that Chirac has backed down on this issue, so should be the end of the strikes.........for now!

 

 

OOps, Having read thrugh some of the other forum threads, seems like my news is history........that will teach me to listen to the news and not clean the loo!!

[MichaelKing]

Opas,

I think you got it right!

MK

[Gluestick]

Actually, a valid thread on its own account, Opas.

This sorry episode demonstrates loud and clear to me, just how the French government cannot run roughshod over the electors.

As I have said, elsewhere on this forum, France is fundamentally a socialist and working man's state. The right to demonstrate is enshrined in the constitution of the Republic: unlike the UK, where the fuel protestors were immediately disempowered by the police: acting for the government. Worrying...........

If Chirac and de Villepin really want to engage a majority of French people in effective dialogue concerning reforms of he social state and the economy, then this is what they (government) ought to do: rather than issue lofty faite accomplis.

Just shows that the French form of democracy is far more effective than the pale imitation of the UK and the USA, really.

 

[SaligoBay]

[quote user="Gluestick"]

unlike the UK, where the fuel protestors were immediately disempowered by the police: acting for the government. Worrying...........

[/quote]

Don't make me laff, Gluestick!   The CRS are very much in evidence wherever anything is happening in France, and they're not fluffy bunnies.    Who do you think they work for, a Mother Teresa charity or summat?

[Viv]

What is the difference in turn out at elections between France and the UK?

I stopped voting before I left the UK because I felt my vote made not on jot of difference ( give me proportional representation any day) . Is it correct that the numbers that actually bother voting in the UK are getting lower and lower each year?

Is this the case in France also?

[SaligoBay]

[quote user="Gluestick"]

This sorry episode demonstrates loud and clear to me, just how the French government cannot run roughshod over the electors.

[/quote]

Didn't they do just that with the pension plan a couple of years ago?

Take off your rosy-tinted specs, Gluestick, and smell the French coffee.  I'm all for the right to strike, but it would be better if it actually worked.   There's somebody manifesting or striking every day of the year, you'd have to ask yourself why, if things were so good.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="SaligoBay"][quote user="Gluestick"]

This sorry episode demonstrates loud and clear to me, just how the French government cannot run roughshod over the electors.

[/quote]

I'm all for the right to strike, but it would be better if it actually worked.  

[/quote]

But it does work. It just has - the CPE has been dispensed with.

And while I don't think that France is some kind of earthly paradise,

even if it were surely there would be a continued need for the populace

to keep on their toes to ensure it stayed that way? Lots of strikes and

demonstrations are not necessarily the sign of something being rotten

in the state of Denmark, etc. They are, however, the sign of people A)

paying attention and B) being prepared to get off their backsides and

do something.

Compared to riot police in many parts of the world the CRS are a bunch of pussycats.

[Tony F Dordogne]

But at least France is a Republic!!

[Gluestick]

Interesting how perspective can be so very different.

In the past few years that I have monitored French politics, time and again the French electorate have demonstrated to government their displeasure: and government have retracted. Remember the working week? Remember the support, suddenly, for Le Penn? (Bearing in mind that he is extremely right wing: and that since the end of WW II France has veered between communisim and socialism).

Meanwhile in the UK, whatever politicians have wanted, they have just abitrarily put on the statute books. Meantime, the British electors have focused on their football, soaps and celebs, whilst their civil rights are eroded and Blair cancels Cabinet government.

 

[hastobe]

[quote user="viva"]

What is the difference in turn out at elections between France and the UK?

I stopped voting before I left the UK because I felt my vote made

not on jot of difference ( give me proportional representation any

day) . Is it correct that the numbers that actually bother

voting in the UK are getting lower and lower each year?

Is this the case in France also?

[/quote]

I would be really interested to know the answer to this.  I also

haven't voted in the UK for a long time - like you because I feel my

vote doesn't count for anything.  We live at the edge of a

traditionally die hard labour city (think pits / steelworks etc). 

Most people I know vote labour because, well, they always have - their

dad did and their grandad did.  So our vote doesn't mean a

jot.  Labour don't need our vote - they will already win the seat

with a huge majority whether we walk down to the polling station or

not.  Ditto if we voted for any of the other parties - they

wouldn't stand a chance of getting in - with or without our vote. 

We would love proportional representation though I doubt it will ever

happen.  It is not in the interests of those who have the power to

change things.

I have always believed in democracy - one man one vote.  But as I

have become older I feel that this doesn't necessarily produce good

government - every considered vote is outnumbered by those who vote in

a particular way just because they consider themselves to be 'working

class' or 'middle class'.  The value of every vote placed by a

hardworking, upstanding, socially responsible citizen is diminished by

the votes of aherm - how can I phrase this delicately - those with less

social conscience or responsibility.

Although it doesn't resolve the problems above, I had always thought

proportional representation was more democratic than the 'first past

the post'.  It seems from the number of strikes, demonstrations

and back peddling by the French government that PR still results in a

government that might be elected by the people but which seems to be

very out of touch with the views of the majority - however, misfounded

some of us think those views are.  I'm not sure what is

'democracy' and what system does produce good government.  Are the

two compatible?   What is the 'model' system?

Hastobe

[hastobe]

[quote user="jond"]They are, however, the sign of people A)

paying attention and B) being prepared to get off their backsides and

do something.

[/quote]

But its the wrong people paying attention - it should be the government

gettting off its backside and listening to the electorate - not the

electorate having to constantly watch the politicians.

Though in this case I think de Villepin was right but that's a whole other thread [:)]

Hastobe

[SaligoBay]

[quote user="Gluestick"]

Meantime, the British electors have focused on their football, soaps and celebs, whilst their civil rights are eroded and Blair cancels Cabinet government

[/quote]

But that too is democracy in action.   Don't forget that the oddest feature of democracy is that it can vote itself out of existence. 

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="hastobe"][quote user="jond"]They are, however, the sign of people A)

paying attention and B) being prepared to get off their backsides and

do something.

[/quote]

But its the wrong people paying attention - it should be the government

gettting off its backside and listening to the electorate - not the

electorate having to constantly watch the politicians.

[/quote]

I would be nice, but politicians being the genre of reptile that they

are, they only way to preserve even a semblence of democracy is to

watch them like hawks. Governments like to pretend that a mandate given

as the result of an election gives them the right to ignore public

opinion for the next five years or so and impliment whatsoever they

please. Happily this is not always easy in France, and this is one

reason why I like it here.

[Tony F Dordogne]

I seem to recall that Ken Livington's first go at an autobiography was called something like 'If Democracy worked they'd abolish it.'

May have been a quote but seems to sum things up.

[Richard-R]

Franch a democracy. LOL. For every one bad law/mandate that gets stopped 100 pass through without comment. Corrution is rife, there is even less to chise between policatal parties in real terms than the U.K. Politian can break the law without worry. The Unions have massive power like in 70's Britian. Regional power is all show and no go and getting weaker. The French constitution with every re-write has dis-empowererd the people and centred polical power more and more.

To win the odd battle (for the people) does not win the war.

[Sprogster]

According to the news tonight, despite the French government totally backing down, the student unions want to keep up the protests!

The logic being that they want to continue to flex their muscles whilst discussing alternative proposals!