More revolting French!

[Logan]

There seems to be every increasing examples of resentment towards those who want to try and bring France into the 21st Century.

See - http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2147648,00.html

[Gluestick]

Well I am going to set myself up here for a real bashing![blink]

Perhaps France doesn't want to be brought into the 21st Cent.?

It hasn't done much for the UK, after all, IMHO.

<Gluestick ducks..............rapidly![+o(]>

 

[KathyC]

[quote user="Logan"]

There seems to be every increasing examples of resentment towards those who want to try and bring France into the 21st Century.

 

[/quote]

And no wonder there's ill feeling towards the Brits when you get such patronising comments made!

[Benjamin]

And I wonder who brought this bit of news to the attention of the scribe. Could it have been Mr Cummings himself? Shame on Matthew Campbell for bulking his article with all the old Rosbifs versus the Frenchies.

I can remember when you could have expected better from The Times

Benjamin

[hastobe]

Does beg the question if M Jouffrey is so committed to the cause why he didn't invest his money?

Hastobe

[Gluestick]

[quote user="Benjamin"]
I can remember when you could have expected better from The Times


Benjamin
[/quote]

Ah me, Ben: the demise of the Thunderer may be laid at Mr Murdoch's door, I fear.

How long until he adds topless pole dancers to match the pages and pages of football?

These days the once doughty epitome of Britishness is a clone of the Sun.[:@]

 

[Logan]

[quote user="KathyC"][quote user="Logan"]

There seems to be every increasing examples of resentment towards those who want to try and bring France into the 21st Century.

 

[/quote]

And no wonder there's ill feeling towards the Brits when you get such patronising comments made!

[/quote]

There is considerable majority of French people who want France to move into the modern age. They are blocked by powerful trade unions, vested interest groups and politicians who have a weak power base.

[KathyC]

[quote user="Logan"][quote user="KathyC"][quote user="Logan"]

There seems to be every increasing examples of resentment towards those who want to try and bring France into the 21st Century.

 

[/quote]

And no wonder there's ill feeling towards the Brits when you get such patronising comments made!

[/quote]

There is considerable majority of French people who want France to move into the modern age. They are blocked by powerful trade unions, vested interest groups and politicians who have a weak power base.

[/quote]

That may be true (I don't know), but you are English, as is the hotel owner who was written about in the article. That is what makes your comment patronising. What would you think about incomers to the UK who talked about dragging Britain into the 21st. century?

[ali-cat]

The French "way of life" is why a lot of people (including my hubby & I) want to, or have already moved over.  Certain areas pride themselves as being "like Britian in the 50's".  Personnally I think this sounds wonderful.  Who would really want to live in a 21st century Britian, with the way it is going - especially after watching a programme last night about the yobs in England/Wales etc.?  The French have got a good balance from what I can see. 

[Gluestick]

From my own perspective, yes, I am sure that a certain type of French people would love to see France dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st Cent.

However, I'm sure that the majority would not, where it involved a cultural invasion of their lifestyle and state; where it involved outside interests (especially American corporations) taking over major French utilities and where the deal was to swop Mickey D's and other wonderful benefits for peace quite and a level of social stability envied by most with a brain.

Now, I am not saying that France is perfect, rather that perhaps it is less imperfect than some other notable places!

Most agendas of change can be made to sound attractive: mainly since people only consider what they perceive as advantages: and exercise mental myopia on the rest!

Of course the young want change! This is the preserve of the young! We were all radicals once.

However, as GBS said, "Isn't it a shame that youth is wasted upon the young!"

Hopefully wiser French parents will manage to exericse some influence in guiding their kids towards a better balance of quality of life as well as change. Rather than change for change's sake: and some rapacious banker's.

We have done to death the question of French unions and effective people power: suffice it to say that France is a socialist and very much working man's state and the vast majority wish this to enjoy a continuum, rather than being traded off for speculative and very dubious "Improvements" to their lot.

In fact, France has been far more advanced, for example, in terms of practical applications of technology than the much vaunted great Britain. Who were the first in Europe to adopt swipe machines? Who developed chip 'N Pin? Who in Europe rolled-out an effective and nationwide Prestel system? Who applied solar energy to self-powered road signs and emergency telephones? Why, France of course.

Can this be because so many banks and insurers etc are Mutuelles, rather than totally subservient (in theory!) to their stockholders?

If France wasn't so smart, how come they have the best road system in Europe? The Best trains? How many British companies own French utility companies? How many French companies own British utility companies?

Does Britain move from old houses into new modern houses: and meanwhile sell off all the old ones they don't want, to incoming French who then spend their all to renovate, thereby creating local spin-out economic advantage?

Nope! We simply knock 'em down every 50 years or so and are told how these "new" houses will benefit the community; the environment; the living standards of people and so on. Whilst our gardens become smaller; our roads and infrastructure more overloaded and our mortgages even larger. And the developers buy another Rolls and retire to Monaco!

So, who's really stoopid?[:-))]

[Logan]

[quote user="KathyC"][quote user="Logan"][quote user="KathyC"][quote user="Logan"]

There seems to be every increasing examples of resentment towards those who want to try and bring France into the 21st Century.

 

[/quote]

And no wonder there's ill feeling towards the Brits when you get such patronising comments made!

[/quote]

There is considerable majority of French people who want France to move into the modern age. They are blocked by powerful trade unions, vested interest groups and politicians who have a weak power base.

[/quote]

That may be true (I don't know), but you are English, as is the hotel owner who was written about in the article. That is what makes your comment patronising. What would you think about incomers to the UK who talked about dragging Britain into the 21st. century?

[/quote]Oh dear Kathy C. You have little idea about this subject or my antecedents. Let me enlighten you. All my ancestors are French. Married to French lady, lived in France 23 years. Ran several businesses in France employing numerous French workers.

When you all have tried a business life in France and have lived through the experience without jumping off the nearest cliff edge perhaps you can speak with some authority. I believe that capitalism is the most effective route to prosperity for all. Socialism is a along term route to despair. History is the lesson we can reflect upon for our future. The 21st century and the global economy will ruin France unless enormous changes are made. I am soon to depart these shores to run a business without the hand of the state. If I end up living in Monaco living the good life one day it will be only because of hard work and risk. 

[Rob Roy]

Who were the first in Europe to adopt swipe machines? Who developed chip 'N Pin? I always understood it was Finland. I also agree with Logan that until you have lived here permanently for a while and experienced French beaurocracy when trying to start or run a business you have little idea of how restrictive and hide bound "free enterprise" can be.

[KathyC]

Sorry Logan, didn't realise you were French. May I take the opportunity to compliment you on your English! However, I still think that you're patronising, but I'm sure your departure will be England's loss and Monaco's gain!

[Dick Smith]

I'd settle for rural broadband. The world of IT is very patchy, it seems to me.

[Gluestick]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[quote user="Rob Roy"]

Who were the first in Europe to adopt swipe machines? Who developed chip 'N Pin? I always understood it was Finland. I also agree with Logan that until you have lived here permanently for a while and experienced French beaurocracy when trying to start or run a business you have little idea of how restrictive and hide bound "free enterprise" can be.

[/quote]

 

A French inventor seems to hold the global patents. The French government were the major backers of this scheme. http://www.ideas21.co.uk/345

France also rolled out the first Mondex cards, which Midland/HSBC licensed, experimentally.

Don't know if the quote will come out: the system seems flakey at the moment.[8-)]

 

[Rob Roy]

I stand corrected! [8-)]   By the way what are Mondex cards?

[Gluestick]

Cards pre-loaded with cash. They were originally trialed in (from memory) four or five centres in France.

The idea was that eventually, one could pre-load the card with "Cash" via the Net or at ATMs and were menat to lead to cashless shopping and purchases. Haven't caught on as yet.

The future (for low value purchases such as parking) now seems to be cellphones, using Bluetooth, or other radio frequency linking technology.

Allready up and running in South Korea: but since almost every modern tech concept is already up and running in South Korea, this is not a surprise really![+o(]

 

[Jo53]

The French "way of life" is why a lot of people (including my hubby & I) want to, or have already moved over.  Certain areas pride themselves as being "like Britian in the 50's".  Personnally I think this sounds wonderful.  Who would really want to live in a 21st century Britian, with the way it is going - especially after watching a programme last night about the yobs in England/Wales etc.?  The French have got a good balance from what I can see. 

Au contraire, who would want to live in Britain in the 50s. Certainly not me. I wasn't born then, but by all accounts it was dull dull dull, people were repressed and deferential, women were routinely discriminated against ... (a bit like rural France in some ways then).

As for who would want to live in 21st century Britain - I would! I've had enough of the 1950s timewarp in Nullepart sur Rien and am looking forward to moving back to Britain, which incidentally I have come to appreciate a lot more since being away. 'From what  you can see' is really diddly squat until you've actually lived here a few years.

As for France being a 'working man's state' - oh yes, right on. As long as working men don't actually want a good choice of jobs, or to be rewarded for their own initiative, or god forbid to make money. It certainly belongs to working people in that those in work cling to their over-generous rights at the expense of those who are out of work.

 

[Gluestick]

Interesting perspective, jo53. I fear that dependant upon the area in Britain to which you relocate, of course, and your, without intending to be personal, level of wealth, and career path, you may well be in for a rude surprise.

I did experience fifties Britain, as I was born in 1941: thus I experienced the back-end of the forties, too.

Boring? No, not at all! Far from it! People repressed? What, they aren't repressed now?

If by repressed, you mean not so much bed-hopping, well yes. A lot of this went on during and immediately after WWII, of course. If you mean law-abiding, then well, yes, too.

There were significant social values extant in the 50s which definiteley do not exist now. No era is perfection. Some tended to have more values, on balance than others.

Depends what you want, I guess.

If it's clubbing and being deafened by loud noise masquerading as music and paying 200% more for drinks and jerking about under scintillating lasers until 3 in the morning, then wonderful. Provided, of course, that you don't object to having your head kicked in as you wait for a cab, afterwards.

Depends what people want, I guess.

 

[Gluestick]

Just a small amendment: in the  proceeding post, I intended the "You" to be taken as "One": in other words not as a personal riposte to jo53, however, using "one" all the time can sound a bit cumbersome and even pretentious.

 

[Jo53]

OK, my post was a little harsh. And I've never experienced the 50s (except thru living in rural France[:D]). But when does one ever read anything good about that era, except from people who liked it when women stayed at home and made cakes all day (not saying this is what you think, Gluestick). Mostly it's all accounts by people of how bored and stifled they were. But anyway, it was a long time ago now.

Of course we don't intend to move back to a rough area in the UK, any more than we would move to one in France (and yes, we are lucky enough to have some choice, although finance is certainly going to be tough). But I don't see why we should expect a rude surprise - all our friends and family lead normal, happy lives in the UK, as did we (we've only been away 4 years).

When I fumed about rural France being dull, I think it's really country life that I find dull, not France. It would be the same anywhere. It's just that few people in the UK really know what country life is. A nice village half an hour from a buzzing town - that would be lovely. But France is so big and so sparsely populated that in large parts, rural really is rural. Like an hour and a half to anywhere remotely important. And most people never even making that journey. We find it old-fashioned here, but I think that's down to rurality as well. Totally the opposite of cosmopolitan. It was a novelty for the first couple of years, but now the thought of spending the rest of my life in this spot, however lovely, makes me lose the will to live!! Each to their own.

Jo

[Gluestick]

Of course, Jo, there is always the human condition of regarding youth with rose coloured glasses. we all do it, from time to time; such as it was always sunny and warm during school hols. Wasn't, of course, we just tend to remember the good days!

However, from my own pretty vivid recolletions of the late 40s and 50s, there were many huge benefits to living through those decades. Walking to infant school by myself from 5 years of age onwards, after my Mum had shown me the way for a few days. And this was the edge of East London!

Life has simpler activities and challenges: and more wholesome heroes, too. Sport played a big part in most kids lives. At school and for leisure.

The 50s was an era of a sort of re-awakening. It promised everything to those with the energy and desire to better themselves. Yes, there were difficulties, for many, but there were opportunities, too.

Women making cakes? Yes, they did do this, as well as making their own jam and preserves and jolly nice they were too: if one could buy the sugar!

It was perhaps a far simpler life: not dominated by big business, possessions, money, pretention and the media. Reading was an escape and books were more literate and warming.

Technology and invention was a keynote to Britain: a young attractive Queen and her dashing consort (he had hair then!), were the epitome of life and society and a true example to her subjects.

Everest was climbed by Hilary and Tensing: Jaguar won (again!) at le Mans and both in time for the coronation. Scouts were more popular than drugs and gangs. People could walk the streets, in most  places, at night: although most were in bed sleeping in order to put in a full and energetic day on the morrow. Music was live; rather than an endless repetition of canned blather.

Young people were forming groups: bands comprised at least twenty musicians with instruments. Miming at live performances was unknown. Messages were sent by handwritten notes or letters: and even telegrams!

Smart women ruled the roost: contrary to populist current opinion! They didn't need or want equality. They wanted to be women and if they had kids, bring them up as well as possible and be wives to their husband.

Living in sin was unusual: not the norm. Walking up the aisle with two of your kids just didn't happen. Christenings came before weddings! Divorce was difficult and too expensive for most. So they tended to make marriage work more, rather than discarding it like an out-of-fashion coat.

Men wore trousers and perspired: and women were the ones who always seemed to smell nice and wore dresses and skirts silks and satins and lace.

Kids respected their parents and teachers: and perhaps above all else coppers on the beat! And most important, the elderly, particularly Grandma and Grandad, who were revered, not rushed off to a home.

If a copper smacked you around the ear; you were more concerned with the other smack you'd have from Dad, rather than suing the local police authority.

Post arrived on time and was treated as sacrosanct as it was still known as Her Majesty's Mail and her property whilst in transit.

Cyling was fun: and we didn't need lycra babygrows, helmets and 100 gears: we often built our own racing bikes.

Once you bought a car, it was probably a 1930s antique! And you spent every spare moment underneath, keeping it running: and learning how it worked in the process. And once you bought a more modern car, boy, did you value it and respect it. Driving was a privilege: not a social right. It wasn't a contest of ego, either.

No, you're right, Jo: it was horrible![;-)]

 

[bryansmith]

I am so sorry that you find rural life so disappointing. We have only lived here (Lot et Garonne)since September 2005 but we are totally enchanted by the the whole lifestyle. Yes we do have to drive some distance for big towns but I see that as an advantage. We only go there when we really need to and don't mind the distance involved. We are 10 minutes from the nearest village (by car) and that again is not a problem as we love the peace and quiet. We have wonderful neighbours (French) who have made us very welcome and are a delight to chat to. We have all the produce we need from their farm (including the best eggs I have ever tasted). We recently went back to England for a visit and we were shocked by how dirty, noisy and rude the country seems to be - we obviously did not notice when we lived there as that was the norm, and this is in a smallish Midlands town not an inner city area.

I hope that you find happiness back in England - we would never return to live there as we have found happiness and peace in a rural environment.

[Bassman]

Kids respected their parents and teachers: and perhaps above all else coppers on the beat! And most important, the elderly, particularly Grandma and Grandad, who were revered, not rushed off to a home.

If a copper smacked you around the ear; you were more concerned with the other smack you'd have from Dad, rather than suing the local police authority.

 

Those points made me smile Gluestick [:)] I was born in the 50's and MOH and I are often saying the same thing [;-)] the rest of you post rings true as well, growing up in the 60's was pretty much the same, was it the 70's where it all went pear shaped???

I find these days everyone knows there rights but not their responsibilities[:(]

 

Oh dear I'm starting to sound like my Dad [;-)][:D]

[ali-cat]

Bassman & Gluestick - I have just loved reading both your posts.  It sounds like we are all on the same wavelength.  I can't believe how kids talk to their parents & teachers these days.  If I ever got a smack in school & told my mum, she would slap the back of my legs & tell me I must have deserved it & it hasn't done me any harm!! [blink]  I think!! 

Personnaly I think it started going wrong when teachers lost the right to discipline pupils & parents stopped teaching manners & as you say, responsibility.  I don't mean teachers should batter them senseless (although if I was a teacher I probably would!!!)  but they can't even shout at them now without fear of suspension.  I even heard that they can't say that a pupil has failed an exam - it's a "deferred pass", now!!!  Aaaaggggghhhhhh!!  It makes my blood boil!!  [:@]