Chimney Fires

[Ergotherpeut1]

A couple of days ago we had the fire brigade in our house and on our roof putting out a chimney fire.  I arrived home and Mrs Ergo and our children were all in the frosty garden.  Luckily no damage was done,  my wife had noticed something was wrong immediately, consequently all are safe and well.   Often we feed the fire before going to bed, happily the fire did not occur at this time or it may have been more serious.  I have to face the fact that I had been relying on the ramonage logs (which we do monthly) to keep us safe, although I had purchased a chimney sweeping brush with the intention of sweeping them over Christmas.  I was complacent about the risk, thinking that the ramonage logs would protect us!   Since it occurred three of our French neighbours and the guy fitting the carpet informed us that they had also had chimney fires in the past.  I have now swept our chimneys and intend to stay on top of it now, I am posting this in case it may encourage anyone who is thinking about cleaning their chimney to get on and do it.  (I hope it doesn't sound like I am pontificating)

A safe and merry Christmas to you all.

Best wishes

[Clair]

Thank you for the timely reminder Ergo and I'm sure you're all relieved nothing worse happened.

As you say, it's easy to get complacent about it and nothing can replace a regular chimney sweep. Doing it yourself is a good of way of keeping on top of it and it really does not take very long...

After all the ecxitement, I'm sure you'll all enjoy your Christmas!

[Teamedup]

Are insurance companies happy with 'just' ramonage logs. I thought that they insisted that the chimney is swept at least once a year and using a professional or DIY is something to be negociated with them and not something that one just decides to do oneself.

I am bearing in mind that each insurance company is different, but I would check up. The wriggle enough when one has done everything properly, never mind not adhered to a contract.

[Clair]

I am not advocating the DIY approach over the chimney sweeper. Each to his/her own and whatever makes you feel safe at home...

The likelihood of a chimney fire at my home is greatly reduced because we "sweep our own" several times a year and have done for the last 2 years. We know the chimney is cleaner than if we relied on the "once-a-year" clean-up back-up by a certificate.

My insurance company does not require me to produce an "sweeping certificate", but I still sweep several times a year for my own peace of mind.

[Ford Anglia]

Is it necessary to sweep if you have a stainless flexible flue liner? And burn logs?

Don't the brushes damage the flexible flue liner? Mine was a big enough pig to get down the chimney, I wouldn't really want to remove it and replace with another........[:@]

 

[cooperlola]

Yes, you must clean it but the brush must be bristle or plastic not metal (or that's what the guy who installed mine told me!)  We do ours several times a year and still get odd bits of stuff coming down in spite of burning very old logs (ie not at all green).

[Teamedup]

Clair, what does your insurance company say about you DIY'ing your sweeping. I think that that is the thing. We used to do our own, but did check up first.

[Clair]

I am covered by the MAAF. Under 'Fire and similar events', they say:

[quote]our advice:

think about having your chimneys and boiler cleaned and serviced before the winter

have you gas appliances checked

have your insert fitted and checked regularly by a professional

...and other advice...

exclusions:

any burns caused by smokers

damages caused by use of dynamite or other explosives (except fireworks)[/quote]

Note: not recommendation, not requirement, but advice

Even if they did require us to produce a certificate to prove an annual sweep, we would still do it ourselves as well, several times a year.

EDIT after re-reading the question: the MAAF have told me that as long as the chimney is swept clean, they have no problem with who does it and do not require a certificate.

[ninahookins]

Hi

We had a fire in our chimney earlier in the year. It was due to the oak beam that was the mantle piece catching alight at the back, this set the chimney alight. We have 5 pompiers here to put it out.

The insurance company paid for a new beam, new wood burner new flu and never questioned about the chimney being swept, although it had.

We were very lucky as it was 10 in the evening and we were not far off going to bed when my daughter noticed the fire.

Regards and Happy Christmas

Nina

[Teamedup]

I think that this sort of thing is something that everyone should check on with their insurance companies. They could all be a bit different and lets face it there is so much to lose if the whole property burnt down.

[5-element]

But it's not just that the insurance company might not pay up: I am sure that on the news they were saying that it is "illegal" (quite a concept here in France!) not to have a professional sweeping your chimney - although that might be only in certain departements. It might be a prefectoral regulation.

I am sorry for all those who have had a chimney fire, as it is one of my fears. We have an insert which was supposedly professionally installed 5 years ago, by a local firm which we have had occasion to not be happy with since then - they don't have such a great reputation although they have some sort of a monopoly locally - this year the professional chimney sweep said that our chimney is not lined, so that the stone is beginning to crumble, and it is unsafe. With the type of insert that was put in, it is not possible to line the chimney now, because there is no conduit or something, anyway the shape is wrong. The sweep said it is dangerous as it is, and could easily lead to a fire. As it is our only form of heating (with a SUPRA insert, which blows air all around the house) I am not at all happy. Who to trust? Since the chimney sweep also instals woodburners, difficult to totally trust him, as he might be touting for business - but he made a lot of sense.

I asked the pompiers when they came around presenting their calendar, they were quite vague and just said that yes, they see a lot of chimney fires, and one of them believed that there was a new law which makes it illegal to have an unlined chimney. They didn't seem to know much more though (they send the young, fresh-faced cute ones around to collect money with their calendar usually!) - but I know of at least one other (French) person who had the same insert installed, in the same way, by the same firm, as our one.

Those of you who had chimney fires (this may seem a naive question!): do the firemen send you an invoice, or are they paid by the state? And did you have a lot of damages?

[Clair]

The regulations are regional or local and the préfecture or the mairie should be able to tell you what is required.

If you are required to sweep your chimney(s) by arrêté préfectoral or arrêté municipal, it usually has to be done twice a year: once before the chimney is used and once again after the fire-lighting period.

Most insurances will not penalise a householder for not producing a certificate, however, they may well take the view the householder could have been more careful...

The housholder can be held liable for costs if the fire brigade decide to invoice him/her, should they feel the fire could have been avoided by regular sweeping. They can ask to see an invoice (=certificate) which would prove the chimney has been cleaned in the 12 months preceding their intervention. A chemical sweep is not considered a replacement for a mechanical chimney sweep.

As with all things, better safe than sorry. Your house, your life, you decide.

[cooperlola]

Oh and Clair you just reminded me - re the stainless flue liners - you must not use a chemical cleaner.

[5-element]

[quote user="Clair"]The regulations are regional or local and the préfecture or the mairie should be able to tell you what is required.

If you are required to sweep your chimney(s) by arrêté préfectoral or arrêté municipal, it usually has to be done twice a year: once before the chimney is used and once again after the fire-lighting period.
Most insurances will not penalise a householder for not producing a certificate, however, they may well take the view the householder could have been more careful...
The housholder can be held liable for costs if the fire brigade decide to invoice him/her, should they feel the fire could have been avoided by regular sweeping. They can ask to see an invoice (=certificate) which would prove the chimney has been cleaned in the 12 months preceding their intervention. A chemical sweep is not considered a replacement for a mechanical chimney sweep.

As with all things, better safe than sorry. Your house, your life, you decide.
[/quote]

Thank you Clair, that's very helpful and confirms what I suspected - funnily enough, none of my (French) neighbours seems to know about this!

As for  "my house, my life" you are right, except that in order to FIND a chimney sweep who will come around at all, every year I have to make at least 15 phone calls. There is a terrific shortage here in Herault, why? And around here they charge about 75/80 euros which is above the average rate for France.

Regional differences again!

[Llwyncelyn]

It's a small world.  Today our friendly roofer came and swept out chimney and which has installed a flexible tube in stainless steel.  We had some problem in finding a sweep and so used one of those logs.  I was unhappy although my wife said it would be ok.  Well the roofer is doing other work for us and he put his ladders up go on to the roof and commence sweeping and as another contributor says with a special plastic type brush and certainly I was informed not the metal one!

Thus it was a fair assumption that after the logs there would be little up the tube!  Wrong huge amounts of soot dating back to November of last year when the log burner was installed.  Indeed the roofer says that in his opinion the tube needs sweeping twice a year and he is coming back in March.

Thus in future no log just plain old M Rouelle.

On this point the log burner is one of the new 'green ones' and which we received 40% allowances in our income tax.  It really is efficient and even with all the vents closed it continues to burn away at a pace.  We face due west and almost 800 feet up and the 'draft' is first class.  Is this the reason for the super efficient log burner or do we inherently have a fault for it is burning more logs than the old Franco Belge.

Can someone please help

[cooperlola]

5-element, it was the same in the UK - I had to book the sweep in the Spring to make sure he was available in the Autumn for the pre-lighting sweep!  A niche which needs to be filled, perhaps?

[powerdesal]

[quote user="Llwyncelyn"]

Thus in future no log just plain old M Rouelle.

On this point the log burner is one of the new 'green ones' and which we received 40% allowances in our income tax.  It really is efficient and even with all the vents closed it continues to burn away at a pace.  We face due west and almost 800 feet up and the 'draft' is first class.  Is this the reason for the super efficient log burner or do we inherently have a fault for it is burning more logs than the old Franco Belge.

Can someone please help

[/quote]

Llwyncelyn,

Do you have a damper flap in the flue, just at the outlet from the wood burner?

I would suggest that a stove which "continues to burn away at a pace " with all the vents closed is the opposite of efficient. It sounds to be almost uncontrollable. Are the vents actually sealing?, the object is to shut down the primary air feed to the fire, if at the same time the draft is seriously pulling (due to lack of draft flap) then the effect of any air leakeage in through the primary air vents will be exacerbated. Door seals are also a point of potential air inlet leakeage.

I suggest the first check point is the outlet flue draft damper situation.

ps Could you PM me with the contact phone number of your ramoner, M Rouelle please.

pps Could you possibly pass on our Christmas greetings to Christian.

Regards and best wishes

[Llwyncelyn]

Hi have sent you a pm and perhaps you  could respond when you have a moment.  Meanwhile enjoy yourselves in the sun!

 

rdgs

[5-element]

Cooperlola - yes, I definitely that there is quite a niche there that is crying to be filled. We might start seeing some Bulgarian chimney sweepers next year, if I was them that is definitely a business I would go for - good money too, even if it is a dirty job! Plumbing and chimney sweeping are 2 jobs I would like to train for if I started in life again!!!

I didn't realise it was so hard to find a sweep in the UK too!

Here I am (was) on a permanent list for sweeping, with the people who supposedly professionally installed our insert - usually every year, it is them who decide when and how they will do their rounds and sweep  chimneys. Usually I have to ring them up from August on, just to make sure. This year, mid-October (their usual time) came and went, and no sign. I had to ring up every week. By mid-November they had not deigned to start on the chimney-sweeping - which they only do on Saturdays anyway!!! So I did manage to find someone else, a fairly new Belgian guy who seemed incredibly serious, he must have seen the scope for such a venture, is fully registered etc... I really wish him well, as he DID turn up on the day he had said he would, and he was only a couple of hours late, and very pleasant to boost! I know who I will be using next year (if he is still here!)

Wishing everyone a safe and clean chimney for Santa's visit.

[Cassis]

French Santa will not visit you if your chimney has not been properly swept and you must leave a note (in triplicate) on the roof attesting to this, which is why I did ours at the beginning of November.

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Cassis"]French Santa will not visit you if your chimney has not been properly swept and you must leave a note (in triplicate) on the roof attesting to this, which is why I did ours at the beginning of November.
[/quote]You also have to get an elf to countersign all three copies and write "lu et approuvé" don't forget!

[Cassis]

And don't have the fire on when the elf arrives - smoking is bad for your elf.

[powerdesal]

12 to go

[Llwyncelyn]

Steve 12 before you return to Normandie?

[Cassis]

I'm guessing that Steve was counting down my posts at that time ...