The big debate - Royal vs Sarkozy last night

[Cat]

I'm surprised that no-one has commented on this yet.  Did anyone watch it?

Leaving the actual policies aside, and looking at the performance, I thought that Royal came across better than I expected her too, showing more determination, aggression and (dare I say it) balls than she has shown before.  Sarkozy, as ever, spoke and reasoned well, remained (mostly) calm and hardly put a foot wrong.

I'm not sure that either of the candidates put up strong enough policies or performances to swing the undecided voters their way though.  If we could take a little of each of their policies and roll them into one we might have something that people could get behind and support,

If you did watch it, what did you think?

 

[Pierre ZFP]

I saw part of it, I couldn't follow enough to take it all in unfortunately.  It seemed to me they had swopped sides, in character, not politics with Royal being the stroppy one, interupting and becoming quite animated and Sarkozy being the quiet mediator.  I think both their PR teams must have suggested some changes which were interesting to watch as they both took the style change on board with gusto. Could be a way of influencing the undecided.

As an aside, on BBC radio 4 this morning, there was a report on the debate. The reporter repeatedly reffered to 'Segolene' versus 'Sarkozy' why not 'Royal' ??

[Cat]

Royal really went for Sarkozy a couple of times.  The first was when he tried to argue with her about nuclear power, and she "put him right" on the fact that a 4th generation reactor is already being prototyped. 

She became really heated when Sarkozy proposed making education in main stream schools more easily available to children with disabilities.  Royal "pointed out" to him that how hard she had already fought for this, and how it was his government that had made it so difficult in the first place. She even called him immoral!  He said she was too hot tempered to be a president (or words to that effect) and she said that she was "en colère" when faced with injustice and lies!

[Beryl]

I also struggled to understand everything that was said, but I thought Sarko's body langauge was better than Royal's, he seemed to be firm but polite as far as I could tell. Whereas she interupted him several times and I didn't like her facial expressions when he wanted to continue. He made me want to listen to him, she didn't.  

 

 

[nimportequoi]

I only watched around 90mins or so, but thought Ségo was better than I've seen her before, although she stumbled a few times. Do you think she was more agressive because she knew Sarko had to keep calm to impress viewers? To me, Sarko came across as more competent with a more realistic view of what has to be done (no gain without pain) than Royal.

He is also a much better orator, she has such a monotone delivery.

[Clair]

Sarkosy had to come across as a balanced and even-tempered man to counter his reputation as an angry hard man.

Royal had to show she has some fire in her belly and her performance was just that.

The interruptions are perceived as gaining points. In any French-style debate, the aim is not to be fair and let your opponent make his/her point, but to interrupt and speak louder to ensure your point gets across, but more importantly that your opponent's point cannot be heard.

For me, Royal came across as an angry woman, not as a politician confident her figures would speak for her. She wanted to show passion, I saw recrimination.

Sarkosy appeared as he wanted to, a statesman in waiting, able to diffuse anger and respond to it with a measure of calm.

As Cat says above, I'd like to take a little bit of him and a little bit of her to arrive at a candidate I'd like to vote for.

There's much about him I don't like and some I agree with.

Her planned economic measures still do not convince me and I am far from certain she'll be able to reform her PS colleagues enough to get the support she's going to need for things to change.

Still undecided...[:(]

[SC]

I found it difficult to keep up with, especially when they were both talking at the same time.

Segolene Royal came across better than I expected too, and I thought made better use of the early part of the discussion. Of course her economic message is simpler to put across, 'no cuts to numbers of functionaires', 'government creation of half a million jobs' etc is pretty straightforward (la grande braderie!), but I'm not sure that it will sway many of those who didn't vote left in the first round, who may be sceptical at the cost and past performance.

I agree that her voice was, or became monotonous, and wonder if she didn't give viewers the impression that she was haranging him. Although overall they spoke for virtually the same time, I was left with the impression that she had spoken for much longer than he.

Sarkozy's message of 'trickle down' economics is less concrete of course, and saying that he will severely reduce the number of government employees is an instant bitter pill. Many, many families have a functionaire within them in the same way that they have family connections to farmers. I also wonder if citing the experience of Spain and in particular the UK was a good move given French perceptions of Britain.  I didn't catch him defending 'his' government's apparent success in reducing unemployment, considering he was taking flak for the past five years.

I've been uneasy as to who would be making policy if Royal was elected and for me she went some way to show her authority and mastery of her subject (a la Thatcher?). I think that Sarkozy was more statesmanlike, particularly at the end when asked to comment on Madame Royale. Although he may have been lying through his teeth, I thought her 'no comment' on her opponent said it anyway and to my mind came over as sour grapes.

Incidentally did anyone notice the shots of Patrick P d'Arvor when he appeared to be looking sceptically at SR, and later listening intensely to NS?

Regardless of our own political leanings and the above comments (we all see what we want to see after all), we thought that SR's performance may have been good enough to get her elected on Sunday.

Steve   

[Christine Animal]

If you are still undecided, try to think of the one you don't want as we had to once before.  I know which one it is for me.

 

[Tresco]

[quote user="Sc"]

 I think that Sarkozy was more statesmanlike, particularly at the end when asked to comment on Madame Royale. Although he may have been lying through his teeth, I thought her 'no comment' on her opponent said it anyway and to my mind came over as sour grapes. [/quote]

I thought he was incredibly patronising towards her at that point and she was right not to respond. He did the same in his speech after the first round (which she also studiously ignored).

Apart from this I agree with much of what you say about the debate, but the numbers still don't add up as far as a win for Royal goes. Even though Le Pen has said he won't vote for either, nealrly all his supportes who do, wiil vote for Sarkozy, and even an equal share of Bayrous supporters wouldn't give her enough to make up the discrepancy.

[Patmobile]

It' got to be one or the other, so no point wishin there could be a third choice of a mixture of the two.  Although I think France needs Sarko, from a purely selfish point of view I now hope that Sego wins. 

I've realised that it's the socialist culture that so dominates French lifestyle that makes France such a pleasant place to live.  Why should we want Sarko to start the process of turning France into something more fast-paced and competitive?  If I was French I would probably vote for him, but because I'm only here for the relaxed lifestyle I hope it's President Royal for the forseeable future.

Patrick     

 

[SC]

[quote user="Tresco"]

I thought he was incredibly patronising towards her at that point and she was right not to respond. He did the same in his speech after the first round (which she also studiously ignored).

[/quote]

Asked at the end to comment on each other, Sarkozy said, "I have much respect for her. We have a lot of differences, but I hope here we have given an image of a renewed democracy, at ease with itself. I hold no personal animosity."
Royal said she would "refrain from personal remarks"

Seemed OK to me, maybe I didn't pick up his tone. Considering the personal slights of the past few weeks, I thought it a politic comment, but as I said before, we see and hear what we want to.

Steve

 

 

[Clair]

[quote user="Patmobile"]It' got to be one or the other, so no point wishin there could be a third choice of a mixture of the two. [/quote]

I cannot endorse either.

[Tresco]

[quote user="Sc"]...as I said before, we see and hear what we want to.[/quote]

Personal slights yes, from both candidates, which was why I couldn't stomach his creepy comments at the end, and after he won the first round.

There was a bit more...something like 'I respect what she has done to get here...' it sounded patronising to me.

Actually, reading it back, the part about him bearing no personal animosity to her could be read a number of ways. It being Sarkozy one would be 'I'll make it my lifes work to destroy you'. [6]  [;-)]

[SC]

[quote user="Tresco"][quote user="Sc"]...as I said before, we see and hear what we want to.[/quote]

 'I respect what she has done to get here...' it sounded patronising to me.

[/quote]

Yes, I heard that too. He certainly said more than in the quote that I found.

Has anyone found a French or English transcript? The audio can be found at http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9966285 but I'm not sure that I want to hear it all again and without ADSL it will take me four hours to download.

Of course, he may really 'respect what she has done to get there...' because he knows what he has had to do himself...you'll have to imagine the appropriate emoticon.

Steve

[Patmobile]

[quote user="Clair"] I cannot endorse either.
[/quote]

If you were a voter and you wanted to have a say in France's future you would have to decide on one or the other.  This is the way this election works, and millions of French people who feel like you will, nevertheless, put their mark in one or other box on the ballot paper.

Patrick 

[seb47]

I only know that our French neighbours must be between the devil and the deep blue sea as they certainly don't want to work longer hours or years, but on the other hand are not happy with Mme Royal's socialist views, in particular regarding immigration. Most of our French friends regard a job for life as paramount, without perfrormance management entering the debate.

Yet .. isn't this attitude to work what attracted us to France? Maybe we do get cross with the lady in the bank who can only work at snail's pace and then have a long irrelevant conversation with the customer before she gets round to us.

It will be really interesting to see the result on Sunday, but moreso the after effect.

[Cat]

[quote user="Patmobile"]

[quote user="Clair"] I cannot endorse either.
[/quote]

If you were a voter and you wanted to have a say in France's future you would have to decide on one or the other.  This is the way this election works, and millions of French people who feel like you will, nevertheless, put their mark in one or other box on the ballot paper.

Patrick 

[/quote]

That's the thing Pat, Clair is French, and she, like many others cannot endorse either.  Many feel they are between the devil and the deep blue sea.

[Clair]

[quote user="Patmobile"][quote user="Clair"] I cannot endorse either.[/quote]

If you were a voter and you wanted to have a say in France's future you would have to decide on one or the other.  This is the way this election works, and millions of French people who feel like you will, nevertheless, put their mark in one or other box on the ballot paper.

Patrick[/quote]

Patrick, I am a voter and I do have a say, unlike most here, which makes my dilemma more acute.

For me this is not a glib discussion, it is a real and difficult choice, which I feel unable to make at present.

EDIT: to vote, you put a ballot paper (or nothing) in an envelope.

[SC]

Glib is a bit rude Clair, you may vote, but we all live here.

Steve

 

[Patmobile]

[quote user="Clair"][quote user="Patmobile"][quote user="Clair"] I cannot endorse either.[/quote]

If you were a voter and you wanted to have a say in France's future you would have to decide on one or the other.  This is the way this election works, and millions of French people who feel like you will, nevertheless, put their mark in one or other box on the ballot paper.

Patrick[/quote]

Patrick, I am a voter and I do have a say, unlike most here, which makes my dilemma more acute.

For me this is not a glib discussion, it is a real and difficult choice, which I feel unable to make at present.

EDIT: to vote, you put a ballot paper (or nothing) in an envelope.
[/quote]

You had your say in round one.  I agree though, this election system does leave you in a spot if neither of the two most popular candidates is one you can bring yourself to vote for.  Thanks for enlightening me on how to vote.  I now see that a blank vote in this final round is not an irresponsible act.  It's a valid indication of your dissatisfaction with both candidates on offer.  

I suppose it is easy for me to say make your mind up - I don't actually have to.  (Although I have now, and I've put her poster in my window)

Patrick 

 

[Iceni]

Last week I met a French couple while queuing for the Alhmabra (Granada not Bradford) and the election was discussed. Mme had voted for Bayrou (sp?) in round 1 and would not be voting for either in round 2. M. said that he would be voting against S rather than for R in round 2. Summarised as the options in round 2 being between the wrong candidate from the correct party and the candidate from the wrong party.

Methinks that white vote will come out on top.

John

not

[5-element]

Yes but white vote is not going to elect a president, except by default.

Like Clair, I can vote, and will be voting against rather than for. I find Sarkozy too potentially dangerous (OK, he was mild as a lamb in the debate, having been coached to the hilt!) - I have seen him being very hateful and poisonous, (not in the past 2 weeks as he has been playing gentle and soft and humane and caring!) and I would never trust someone like this at the head of any state.

Besides, Segolene Royal is smart, can think on her feet, adaptable and flexible, and might consult others more than "he" would. That is where my vote will go on Sunday.

[Mark]

My Squidge tells me that a Scot smashed all the ballot boxes up with a golf club yesterday in the British local elections.  It's an option, in any democracy worth its salt.

For what it's worth, I think Sarko looks like an utter snake.  I'd spoil my paper.

nb - the fella didn't smash ALL the ballot boxes up in the British local elections, just those in his manic vicinity.

 

[cooperlola]

A lefty woman to vote for?  No contest.  If I could, that is.  Next time...

Go girl!

[Logan]

I watched the debate in a hotel bar whilst travelling in Provence. I was very interested to see the reaction of my fellow guests and locals to the candidates. Most of them thought Sarkozy showed statesman like qualities and won the argument hands down. There was almost unanimous derision for Royal who in my own opinion appeared strident and rather nasty under pressure. Mrs T often appeared like that until she was coached later in her term of office by media people in the art of communication. Rural Provence where I was staying is predominantly Le Pen and right of centre territory. Perhaps a certain bias should be allowed for. They are also a little chauvinist. However I think their views were not untypical of rural France generally.  What matters is the little card that is placed in the petite envelope on Sunday, nothing more. My fear is in the privacy of the voting booth the average Frenchman will stand back from the threat of political and social change. I believe Royal will win for this and no other reason.