Alchohol

[Geordie girl]

Because it helps.

[Sprogster]

Well done Chris and many thanks for sharing your story with us, which is a valuable lesson for many of us I am sure.

I for one resisted the usual temptation to open a bottle of wine this evening and reflecting on your experience will try and substitute the Rose with Evian a bit more.

[Gemini_man]

[quote user="woolybanana"]I merely chose to doubt the healthiness of public and group approaches to these matters. I am viscerally unable to see why they have to be shared in this way.[/quote]

simple really - for some people it's the right way or right for them - if it's a problem then don't read it I guess.

[woolybanana]

it is the sudden public nature on a public forum that is surprising.

[Just Katie]

[quote user="Sprogster"]

Well done Chris and many thanks for sharing your story with us, which is a valuable lesson for many of us I am sure.

I for one resisted the usual temptation to open a bottle of wine this evening and reflecting on your experience will try and substitute the Rose with Evian a bit more.

[/quote]

I really think we should get things into context.  I see nothing wrong in opening and sharing a bottle of wine with a friend now and again.  Most people can drink in moderation to socialise and know when to stop.  However, I think it is the beginning of a problem to regularly open a bottle and drink it alone.  If you are a moderate drinker Sprogster have one for me and bottoms up![:)]

Ooops sorry to Chris et.al.  but that is the way life is going to be for you guys from now on. [6] But how good does it feel to know you are no longer in chains.[:)]

[Russethouse]

it is the sudden public nature on a public forum that is surprising

So you wouldn't choose to do it and have said so. I am certainly not going to try to persuade you to change your view and I doubt you will change anyone elses. If the thread doesn't 'float your boat' you could just ignore it. You don't understand the motivation, so be it - we are all different, accept it.

 

.

[woolybanana]

RH, I explained that I was uncomfortable with the public nature of the confessions and the congratulations. I have serious but unstated doubts as to their purpose. Unstated out of respect for the Forum and for my own slightly muzzled position. I deliberately tried not to read the intimate details of these confessions too much but looked for responses to my view. Which actually came mainly in the form of emails and pm's. I also immediately contacted a psychologist of my acquaintance who was not too keen on the AA public approach, describing it as 'sectarian'. I have a perfectly valid viewpoint which should be respected, as I think I have respected that of other posters. Somehow however because I do not have the pc view of these matters I get the impression I am being told to go away. I hope that is not the case. But let me say that it is precisely the motivation I have a problem with.

[Just Katie]

OK WB, we have all heard your opinion.  I think you are now a borderline hijacker.  Please could you just ignore this thread now and give other posters who have posted with such brave honesty the respect they deserve.

I will now choose to ignore you for the rest of this thread.  Please dont take it personally.

[Nickel]

woolybanana

I can understand in a way your concerns regarding this thread -afterall what is the point of these postings - group psychotherapy ( at the "sectarian"  AA -good phrase !) and cognitive behavioural therapy may be effective in the treatment of alcoholism but chatting on an internet site probably isn't. Public confessions and congratulations are now part and parcel of our everyday modern media existence and I do feel a little uncomfortable with that.  However, seeing the responses and comments  this  is a topic generating a great deal of discussion -some sad tales have been told and there are some courageous people out there - if that helps and causes no harm then I can live with that..............just. 

[Russethouse]

 

WB

I think if you want to discuss that aspect you should start another thread, keep this one for the topic of Alcohol etc and start another one for discussing the value (or not) of public 'confessions'.

 My concern is that people who may wish to join in the legitimate discussion of Alcohol and its pro's and cons and perhaps discuss their own situation may be dissuaded from doing so by your questioning the rights and wrongs of the very discussion If it feels right for them they should be able to post without criticism.

 

[Just Katie]

Great minds again Russ![:D]

[woolybanana]

RH, I have emailed you as I feel your last post was less than fair. Perhaps we can slug this out man to man in private which is where the thread should have been.[6]

[TWINKLE]

Well you did predict that you would probably be shot down in flames over this wooly so......here's my penneth worth[:)]

I feel very uncomfortable reading about peoples septic tanks and smelly toilets and which toilet paper they should use in their gites on the forum.  What do I do?  I don't  read those posts anymore. 

Since joining the forum about 18 months ago I have seen a lot of people let off steam here about some quite personal problems and they have often received kind, warm and sensible words of advice and sympathy from some of the posters.   It's human nature to want to help someone who's in distress - thank God there are people who aren't afraid to give it.  It's free and uplifting for those who receive it. 

Maybe your psychologist acquaintence doesn't approve of this kind of 'therapy' as it it puts him/her out of a job[;-)]

[woolybanana]

The psychologist is the best in her field in her country and happens to be my daughter and believe me she will never be out of work. She has seen the damage caused by AA and other types of group therapy and often has to pick up the pieces, from the gutter. No, they are brought in by the police or ambulances and she sees them when they have sobered up. Or they fone her at 3am having taken a dose or cut their wrists trying to open a bottle.

These are not people in distress on the thread, though some of the stories told are about third parties who are falling through the system. And no, I do not believe in public confession. It is dangerous.

[TWINKLE]

The subject obviously makes you rather angry wooly.  Chris did say that he was seeing a 'shrink' too so I'm sure he is getting professional advice and guidance.  There's nothing to stop him getting some kind words here either and like I said - you don't have to read this thread do you?

[TWINKLE]

[quote user="woolybanana"]

And no, I do not believe in public confession. It is dangerous.

[/quote]

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/12/727222/ShowPost.aspx#727222

[;-)] Chill out wooly[:D]

[woolybanana]

What made me angry Twinkle was what I felt to be the offhand, disparaging reference to the psychologist 'of my acquaintance', not the subject at all.

I am not sure that saying one should turn a blind eye is desirable Twinkle. Indeed one should put across a viewpoint, however unfashionable.

That Chris is getting professional help is really important and I support him 100% but I will never agree with the public confession fashion which I believe to be frequently very undesirable and counterproductive.

Saying more would upset individuals more than I feel that I am allowed to do.

[woolybanana]

That was fun, not truth. I never saw most of it I dont think. I might print it off for my book.

[Russethouse]

[quote user="woolybanana"]

The psychologist is the best in her field in her country and happens to be my daughter and believe me she will never be out of work. She has seen the damage caused by AA and other types of group therapy and often has to pick up the pieces, from the gutter. No, they are brought in by the police or ambulances and she sees them when they have sobered up. Or they fone her at 3am having taken a dose or cut their wrists trying to open a bottle.

These are not people in distress on the thread, though some of the stories told are about third parties who are falling through the system. And no, I do not believe in public confession. It is dangerous.

[/quote]

You have a right to your opinion as does your daughter but it is obviously not the only one (otherwise I guess AA would be out of business) I appreciate they are related topics but my feeling is that for the sake of clarity and the benefit of other users it would be better to start a separate thread rather than to risk  muddling up arguments about  the usefulness of confession in addiction - with this one where Chris's post seems to have provided a useful catalyst for discussion.

As Twinkle says Chris has the correct professional help, in his case it is up to them to judge whether for him a confession has been helpful or not. Other posters have already said that sharing experiences has helped them.

 

[Chris Head]

As Twinkle says Chris has the correct professional help

Not too sure about that RH; I reckon the shrink is more of a looney than I am...the last few sessions were about the connection of the poor ceps this year and how it's connected to lunar cycles, Pink Floyd (he recommended that I listen to Floyd more) and Candide cultivating his garden.

I genuinely don't see the physical or mental 'challenges' as being much of a problem, thanks to a past life I have the discipline levels required to achieve my objectives. I also feel an enormous reponsibility to those folk who dragged me along these last few months, both private individuals and proffessionals...and to my two sons. 

The real challenge is re shaping life and moulding it into my perception of  what I want it to be, learning how to relax, accepting that it's OK not to work 7/7 without big guilt trips, choosing who I want to spend time with, meeting new people, more travel & working away from home, tabbing out. Learning how to manage finance (jeez!), run a home, have the time be a father...the list goes on but has to be confronted as equally as the physical and mental stuff, it's crucial to affront everything or it'll come back and give you a slap just at the wrong time!

Work for example, I have many options but just don't have much of an idea which way to go forward....chainsaw carving? furniture? tree climbing? restoration? landscaping? all or none of the above? I love them all but don't want to do one thing all the time. When you don't know the right thing to do it's difficult to head in the right direction...and confusing, the Chambres de Metiers and shrink are being great in that respect, both have enormous patience and don't seem to mind me bugging them like I do.

If anyone needs help, ask for it, the pro's are there for that, they won't judge you or divulge confidences...there's alot more to lose by not talking than there is by hiding.

The system here has been nothing short of stunning, BUT; had I not been properly registered I'd really have been in the doodoo big time.

Have a great day![:D]

 

[Gluestick]

[quote user="woolybanana"]

The psychologist is the best in her field in her country and happens to be my daughter and believe me she will never be out of work. She has seen the damage caused by AA and other types of group therapy and often has to pick up the pieces,

[/quote]

That is an interesting statement: it places this lady psychologist (which, of course usually means someone is not a medical doctor and who studies or has studied psychology, and if they go on to Doctorate level, they can practise: but not someone who generally practises it, that's a psychiatrist), in diametric opposite belief, to currently established view.

Group Therapy is seen to be and known as probably, one of the most valuable weapons practitioners have, in terms of practical treatment.

For one person, qualified or not, to try and discredit AA's undoubted success is, I would have thought, a somewhat arrogant perspective! Unless, of course they have an alternative and hugely efficacious treatment plan which has been proven and demonstrated to work, far more successfully, with proportionately less recidivism.

Personally, I found Chris's honest and open answers to the question I posed him, both refreshing, courageous, but also, very useful to the rest of us: which is precisely why I asked it!

"How much were you drinking?"

Now come on, honestly now, how many of us self-question ourselves on this one? (GS raises both hands![blink]).

Let's face it, it is far too easy (particularly in the wine lake known as France), to fall into the various traps we all know about.

"I'll open another bottle: don't worry! Cheap as chips, here!"

"Everyday a celebration now we're in France!"

"Don't worry: everyone around here drives like this! We all know the local gendarme."

etc.

Which is why I believe Chris's and other's honest statements very useful, not only to the posters but also to the rest of us.

 

[woolybanana]

Seven years of study, plus head of the relevant units at two major hospital. Is that enough for you Gluestick?

I will ask her about alternatives and the why's and wherefores and let you know.

[Geordie girl]

I was a bit wary to post this morning because of woolyb's negative and selfopinionated comments yesterday but then i thought i'd just ignore him. So well done chris & meg on another day without a drink.Keep it up and if you two are not upset by the positive comments on here then thats all that matters isn't it.Let woolyb worry about it.[:D]

[woolybanana]

Alternative viewpoints not allowed in your world then?

[cooperlola]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Alternative viewpoints [/quote]What are they then, woolyb?

Although I am full of admiration for those who conquor addiction, like Mr Banana, I do find the dicussion on a public forum a little uncomfortable.  On the other hand, if it helps some individuals then, why not?  I've just skipped the bits that I find too much for me.

But, equally,  I've no doubt there's good evidence to suggest that group therapy, and airing ones feelings in public, is not a universal panacea, and that for some it is not the best approach.  Without knowing the individuals involved, and being unqualified in the field, I couldn't begin to judge any individual's case.  Ultimately though, it's an open forum and, within certain rules of politeness and legality, anything goes.

Where these subjects might touch those close to me, I prefer to keep this private.  A few years ago, a cousin of mine who is a priest for goodness sake, chose to discuss an unfortunate family member on his parish website.  Some members of the "clan" were very upset and angry about this.  With good reason, imo.  Of course in that case, names were named which has not happened here, so that's fine.  But it's an aspect I would be wary of in the public domain.